Apex Mpeg-1 VBR Audio Skips?
 

Thanx bman for the tip on remuxing with bbmpg.
I tried lots of thing to try to get Kwag's templates to play in my Apex and nothing would work. Buffer tweaks, resizing, apologizing,{for buying an apex :) } remuxing with tmpgenc, etc...

Remuxing with bbmpg did the trick though. So now at 352x480, I get no more audio skipz on the AD-1500. Svcd remuxing did it. I never had problems with my panasonic as this unit plays them beautifully, near dvd. or at least near-near dvd.

ZtR

Re: Apex - Mpg1 VBR- No More Audio Skipz
 

I guess what's happening in the Apex models is that when the video and audio are Re-Muxed as SVCD, the file looks like an MPEG-2 but is actually an MPEG-1.

If you look at a Re-Muxed file with BitRate Viewer, it still says that it's MPEG-1. But when you load it up in VCDEasy, it says that it's MPEG2!.

So it's fooling the Apex into thinking that it's an MPEG-2 file and apparently it works correctly.

Thanks bman, that is really an excelent tip, and maybe it works with many other DVD players that couldn't play the mpegs generated with MPEG-1 VBR, such as KVCD template.

kwag

Muxing and demuxing?
 

I tried using the Kwag template on my kid's DR. Doolittle 2 DVD (Smartripper, DVD2AVI, Vobaudio, TMPGenc and VCDEasy -Pinoy Guide), however the video skipped every 5 seconds and the audio quickly went out of sync on my RCA 5240P, but played fine on the computer and the picture quality is perfect. Would really like to test the muxing/demuxing solution that seems to work with the Apex 1500. I am a bit embarrassed to admit that I don't quite know what these terms mean. Would you mind explaining where in the DVD to CDR process this takes place? Thanks a lot!!!!!!

BTW, this is my first forum. I have been faithfully following the "How to put 120 Minutes on a CDR" forum on VCDhelp.com.

Re: Muxing and demuxing?
 

Hi MrRobot:

You can try with the TMPEG tools to do a De-Mux from your created mpeg file.

This will create 2 files. For example movie.m1v and movie.mp2. Your video and audio files.

Now, you can use BBmpeg to Re-Mux the 2 files as SVCD back to a single file, or you can try using the simple multiplex in TMPEG tools to do the same.

Just choose MPEG-2 Super VideoCD VBR in the file type in the tools of TMPEG.

I assume that, like in the Apex models, the DVD player must support MPEG-2 SVCD format. If not, this RE-Mux won't work.

I have tried the suggestion on the Re-Mux on my Apex AD-600A, and it didn't work. I also tried it on a Pioneer 333 and it only displays half the screen, just like the original template.

The Pioneer works fine at 352x240 with the template, and I assume also at 352x288.

So probably the Re-Mux will work only in some players.

For your RCA model, try to increase the MIN bit rate from 300Kbps to 600Kbps, and see if that fixes the jumps.

kwag

Re: 120 minutes of video with KVCD template
 

First of all, congratulations on the website. I am sure impressed by how much effort you and others commit to this endeavor. I appreciate your help and hopefully one day I'll know enough on this topic that I can return the favor.

I'll try increasing the bit rate and report back what happened. Hopefully we can add the RCA 5240 to the list.

BTW, does the remux/demux process take as long as the original AVI to MPG conversion performed by TMPGenc? The reason I ask is that my family was a bit upset on how long I monopolized the computer to convert Dr. D, about 8 hours.

Re: 120 minutes of video with KVCD template
 

Hi MrRobot:

Thanks!

The De-Mux and Mux should take only a matter of minutes. Not hours as the encoding process. Maybe 10 to 15 minutes for the whole process.
Depending on your CPU speed.

kwag

I have several comments and questions....

First of all i use an Apex-1500....My audio was messed up until Kwag told me to go X240, raise the min bit rate to 500, and raise the Cq to 75.

I watched a couple of the KVCD's i made on the Apex and they looked fairly good...Problem 1 was when watching Rambo 1, the audio was 1-2 sec off sync even though i vdubbed it in. Problem two was every 5-10 mins or during heavy action the VCD would kinda skip a head real quick. As if it got fast forwarded for a sec or two. I then watched Rambo II and it looked alright except half way through the audio cut out....Any ideas guys?

Also if i use the new template, should i keep my CQ so high at 75 or what? What other tweaks are there for this Apex player?

Please help!!!

Someone please tell us how to do this demux and mux with bbmpeg cause im going crazy, tryingto figure out how to do it.

Sorry im not as expert as you.
Thanks for any help.

DaDe.

Demux & Mux with bbMPEG
 

HI DaDe !

It's easy , just go here -> http://www.vcdhelp.com/bbmpegedit.htm

On Program Stream Checkings uncheck Add SVCD scan offsets and Align sequence headers

It's best for me , you try that and play with if it's not perfect to you !

bman

No prob, that'z what the forum is about.

It's quite an easy procedure, really, once you are familiar with the tools.

1.)
Demultiplex (De-mux) with Tmpgenc.

2.)
You'll have two files. Video = ***.m2v
Audio = ***.m2p
These you load into bbmpg 1.8.

3.)
Choose SVCD, load your de-multiplexed files, hit start and bbmpg will Join them, RE-multiplex, (re-mux), into an mpg = an mpg1 vbr with mpg2 clothing on, if you will.

I over-simplify it, i know but once, you do one or two conversions, you'll see it'll become almost second nature.

Here's a guide for it.
http://www.vcdhelp.com/bbmpegedit.htm

When in doubt, check vcdhelp.htm first, to see if they have a guide, most times Baldrick does.

Zooter

Hi Everybody!!!

Thanks to all for such help, i did not expected less. Unfortunately i have no success, sorry to say that, but i just CAN'T GET THIS THING WORK!!!

Here is what's happening: The movie begin to play perfectly, i mean, i can tell no diference against the original!, and goes just like that about 35 or 50 minutes after wich the image begins to freeze for a second and the audio glitches just a little (nothing from other world), ok but that is not the end, after 10 or 15 minutes, in wich the freeze and glitch get worst, the image freezes definetly and the audio glitches every second making the movie completely unwatchable, just a piece of junk, an amount of garbage, a feet full of fungus!!!! thats what the movie becomes 40 minutes after being a great piece of art!!

Anyone have an idea of what is the cause of this? Anyone having the same problem? Kwag, have you had seen full movies with your sony ns300?

Hope somebody can tell me if not a solution at least a reason for this degradation in the playing quality.

Thanks to all !

DaDe.

Hi DaDe:

I have the NS300, actually my daughter, and she watches KVCD's all the time without any skips or jumps at all.

It's one of the best DVD players I've seen.

Could it be the media you're using?

I've seen some jumps only when using CD-RW's, but never with CD-R's.

kwag

De-mux/Re-mux, then Burn??
 

Just curious on the de-mux and re-mux of the video file...

Do you burn this as a VCD or SVCD??

Also, in BBMPEG, I can't load the MP2 file - BBMPEG gives an error that it could not get time per frame from IDirectDrawStream. What am I doing wrong??

Thanks for the help, --TonyK.

you'd burn it as an svcd.

did u follow the steps on the guide to do the demultiplexing?

If so, and your setup is missing a filter or something, there may be other appz to help get the audio out, or convert it and remultiplex.

what version of bbmpg are you running..



ztr

Re-mux in BBMPEG
 

Amazing what happens when one follows the guides....

I was trying to load the files from the initial BBMPEG screen, instead of going to >Start Encoding< then >Settings<... Following the guide lised in a link above, and everything works fine now. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction!

Cheers, --TonyK.

Hi everybody!

Yes i followed the guide you all recomended me, and what i posted before was the results i've got. Yesterday i decrase the speed in my burner (thanks kwag), but still freezes in some parts after 50 mins, then play fine, then freezes again, and so on until the end of the movie (finally i saw it). I burned this test at 4x in a cdrw.

I'll see if my burner allow me to slow down the speed a little more and see what happen, i'll let you know.

Thanx,
DaDe.

Hi again everybody!

I think i killed this thread!! 8O

Well finally i could see an entire movie almost without problem, kwag was righ and the problem was my media, too cheap for the high bit rates of the movies, also i was having a problem with the audio synchronization and TMPGEnc autoclosed after finish to encode a movie (wich i think is not normal) and i think it was the cause for the cutting feature to fail, i think it doesnt finished the mpegs correctly and doesnt allowed me to edit them because of that.

Ok, also the audio in most movies was out of sync to the end of the movie, even when i played it on my computer, even when i opened the audio in virtualdub and frameserved together with video to tmpgenc but when i upgrade to tmpgenc 2.54a, and changed in virtualdub video->frames(or something)->change (something) to 23.976...the problem was solved.

Thanks to all for your valuable help!!

DaDe.

P.S. i just did "billy elliot" and it was 608 mb with kvcd template defaults and subtitles.

Hi DaDe:

Great! It's good to hear that. :D

BTW, what CD-R brand are you using now?

kwag

Hey kwag! Tanto tiempo! :o

Well the brand i used was only for testing and it is something called "Members Mark" bought in sams club, this were some old cd-r's i've forgotten and found them the day before yesterday, even i know this cd's are cheap i also know that the ones i was using are cheaper, those wich doesnt have brand name or logos, plain silver color, i think are named bulk 8O , i bought a hundred :oops: and some played quite good but i needed to record them at 2x wich is ridiculous, in the other hand i could record the members mark at 8x wich is more respectable.

Anyhow im making kvcd's with excelent quality and im very happy :lol:

I plan to buy a 50 cd's cylinder verbatim, i dont think they will fail but i need to test them first. I'll let you know what happened.

Saludos!
DaDe.

Hi DaDe:

Let me know if the Verbatims work. I haven't tried them yet. I only use cheapie brands!

The brand that sells the most here at Sams Club are "Pengo" 8O ( what a name eh! ).

The ones I use are "Prime Periplerals". Sold at OfficeMax.

kwag

no probz with kvcd and Verbatim CDR's and CDRW's.

:D


zTr

So if I have a 23.fps movie and remux it with BBmpeg? I have to have 3:2 pulldown option turned on in Tmpgenc in order for my Apex 1500 to work?

I ask because when i didnt turn it on BBmpeg gave me a warning that this SVCD should be either 25 fps or 29fps.

Just asking :)

tks

TK,
when remuxing with bbmpg i never check it {the 3:2 pulldown option}. Try leaving it off and burning as svcd, if you are remuxing as svcd. If it still doesnt work, try checking it and see if that helpz

ztr

Well i figured out the problem.. i just use Tmpgenc to remux it as a super video vbr.. so far so good... but ive only tried it on one movie so far.. ill keep trying..

thanks

tks

Newbie Question from an APEX 1500 owner
 

Kwag: :D Thanks for referring me to this site. When I played the clips produced by KVCD template on my APEX 1500, both the audio and video are jerky. :(

Based on what I read here, the solutions are to "Demul", "Re-mul" and change resolution to 352X240. Is my understanding on the solution correct? :?:
After the conversion to 352X240, would the quality goes down? :?:
For an APEX 1500 owner, what's the advantage of KVCD template over what NEWGEN's method posted in the VCDHelp? :idea:

Thanks for your help.
rpoon :D

Re: Newbie Question from an APEX 1500 owner
 

The quality will be much better at 352x480 than at 352x240.
Really, it depends a lot on your TV set.
If you have a small display, you won't really see much difference.
If you have a HDTV or a large screen, the difference is huge.

As for the NEWGEN's template, I have never tested it, but after looking at the parameters AVG=1,150Kbps, MAX=1,150Kbps, and MIN=0 this basically says that the highest bit rate won't exceed 1,150Kbps.

So the quality that can be generated with this template is no more than a standard VCD. However, because it uses 2-pass VBR, yes, you can put 2+ hours on a CD-R. Also having a MIN of 0, it will be jumpy on some DVD players. It also uses Automatic VBV buffer ( 0 ) which also causes problems on some DVD players.
For example, the Panasonic RP-56 jumps at playback if you generate a video with VBV buffer=0. The Panasonic DMR-E20 does the same too.
This happens at 352x480. So maybe it'll jump on some spots at 352x240.

That's another reasons why I don't use Automatic VBV, and I use a MIN of 300 ( and for some Apex it has to be increased to 600 ) in the KVCD template, for bit rates.

I'll stick with my min=300 and max=1,450 and the optimized GOP :lol:

kwag

Guys, I still can't get and of Kwag x480's to work on the Apex 1500. Maybe someone could step me through it. I gotta be missing something. I encode as mpg1 with upped min bitrate to 600. Even tried using Joint Stereo in the encode. Then demux with Tmpeg and remux as SVCD in bbMpeg while unchecking "Add SVCD scan offsets" and "Align sequence headers". Then burn as an SVCD in VCDEasy. Tried multiple variations.

I'm pulling out my hair and I don't have enough as it is!!!

Thanks!!

The only thing that differs from the way I do it is that I encode at 29.97fps and I use Nero to burn as SVCD. maby u could give that a try :D

Hi "Strerogers" !

I tryed many variations of 352x480 and 352x576 and only thing that really worked was 4:3 display with Full screen .
When tryed this res - 16:9 or 2.1:1 with Full screen(keep aspect retio) always got squased picture .
With just, Full screen , picture covers all screen.
A'm working with HU-2010 not an APPEX but as u discribe the prob looks like they have very similar spec's.

I stopped experiments with this param's and for 16:9 or 2.1:1 a'm using 352x240(288) .
If you'll succeed more than I did will be hapy to hear about .

bman

I'm sorry I wasn't more specific. I can burn SVCDs with Kwag's x480 templates. I just use the 3:2 pulldown. VCDEasy adds a lot of extra data while creating the SVCD though.

I can't get a VCD (mpg1) to work on my Apex 1500 using any of Kwag's x480 templates. I get audio skipping. The 352x240 works fine though. I want a 352x480 or a 704x480 to work in mpg1 format. Some others have gotten it to work by Demux/Remux. I must be doing something wrong.

Hi sterogers:

Have you tried the 704x480?. I know the 352x480 skips and jumps on some Apex models. But what about the KVCDx2 as it is?

kwag

If your encoding SVCD's, I found that VCDEasy seems to add substantial padding to the 352x480 resolutions making for larger file sizes...I found a simple trade off is to bump the resoultion to 480x480. You will get no added padding during the burn process and better quality picture...My argument here is... I might as well use the extra file size to work on the quality side of encodes. Simply....Instead of wasting those extra mb's on padding, put it to work for better picture quality...Works for me! 8)

Kwag

704x480 VCD skips
352x480 VCD skips

Video sure looks good though. Somebody got it to work. My player couldn't be different.

slab

Will try 480x480 SVCD. Have done those in the past with 29.97. Didn't add much size. Haven't tried one with 3:2 pdown though.

In reply to this statement:
I can't get a VCD (mpg1) to work on my Apex 1500 using any of Kwag's x480 templates. I get audio skipping. The 352x240 works fine though. I want a 352x480 or a 704x480 to work in mpg1 format. Some others have gotten it to work by Demux/Remux. I must be doing something wrong.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This has been said by others in various places on this forum. Some DVD players (I have 2 Apex AD600a and AD700) seem to require 29.97 framerate for mpeg1 or you get audio skips even though the video looks fine. Check the "time left to play" display on your Standalone Player. Is it accurate? That could show you the problem. My 2 players accept all kinds of variations of video /audio compression with all kinds of GOP settings etc.. but so far only if encoded at 29.97 even if the original DVD is 23.97, I have to do a pulldown(up) by saying that its 29.97 and doing a pullup. The only thing I haven't tried is the svcd trick where you fool the player into thinking its an mpeg2 by putting the mpeg1 in a mpeg2 svcd directory structure but its somewhre on my list of things to try.

I tried force film, inverse telecine, demux/remux with tmpg and bbmpeg etc.. but nothing else worked for me. Most of my tests were run with the 704x480 using 4 different DVD (my own) and I played with all the audio/video/frame options that I could find.
I even tried a variation of the DVD1 and 2 templates to create real mpeg2 but the quality didn't look much better than the kvcd at 704x480. Although my results with kwag's templates have been superior to anything I have done before I have yet to achieve the quality of the Matrix clip posted on the site.

If someone knows how to get my players to accept 23.97 framerate I would be happy to hear. Please be specific. My concern with special after the fact processes is that someone could accidently reset their file to vcd standard giving the appearance of a fix.

Hi sterogers,

I incorporated KWAG's templates and great work here into MPEG-2 or (KSVCD's)...Why?, because my player (Daewoo 5800) like the Apex, may not like MPEG-1 (KVCD'S) in anything other than the standard resolution of 352x240. Whereas my player loves MPEG-2 (KSVCD's) and will play any combination of resolution or bitrate...

I have spent lots of time test encoding and found no easy solution other than to encode in MPEG-2 (KSVCD's) to gain the full benefit of KWAG's(NTSC) templates, and the "Andreas" Q Matrix. Encoding with any of KWAG's templates in MPEG-2 allows me the quality, comparable file sizes, and ability to "tweak" any CQ, bitrate, Qmatrix, or aspect ratio without any worry of ..."jerky video or audio synch" problems...

I have given up testing this or that, de-muxing and remuxing, FFilm no FFilm, 23fps 29fps, IVTC, deinterlace...blah, blah.. blah..and have resigned to the fact my player does not like non-standard (352x480)...(704x480). MPEG-1. I wish I could find a viable answer to this synch problem, but it is too time consuming and not necessary since mpeg-2 gives me a very stable and exceptable solution without all the headaches! I now just spend time tweaking CQ's and bitrates to get the best file sizes and quality for my encodes..No worries about synch!


Eventhough...this is in reality, a KVCD or MPEG-1 forum, I found a useable solution for my player to take advantage of the wonderful work here, and can enjoy in the fun available to encode captures, dvd..or whatever!? I thank KWAG and all other posters for the informative input here!

So, I recommend any player's with "jerky video or audio synch problems" that can indeed play SVCD's...try MPEG-2 (KSVCD's) with the templates! Is it standard this!?..or standard that!? NO!!! but it works and I like it, and I am able to participate in this forum, with the same quality and file size of others...

How do I encorporate MPEG-2 into the templates!?...Just 2 clicks and I'm encoding with the same benefit as the KVCD'rs...See ... HERE for more info from a previous post...

If you do not have the ability to encode in MPEG-2 anymore..than just download a new version of TMPGEnc to start a new trial period.(30 days)...or buy the licenced version of TMPEGEnc plus...(this is not an endorsement or meant to be spam...It is just the engine of choice I and many others use here).

Whew!..gonna shut my piehole for now..(heheh) :mrgreen: . Post some feedback if you feel inclined... 8)

Standards?
 

slab wrote: You're right slab. Standards, Standards. That's why we're stuck with Microsoft :lol:
Let's innovate. If it works, that's what counts!. If it's not broken , don't fix it!.
That's how I think. :wink:

kwag

KWAG for President!
 

KWAG your our poster child for innovation!!! :mrgreen:

It's a wonderful thing you've done here!!!...Thanks AGAIN!!!!

Re: KWAG for President!
 

Thanks!!!!

___ :mrgreen: ___
__ :mrgreen: :mrgreen: __
_ :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: _

slab

I have done the 352x480 SVCD with 3:2 pulldown like you. Quality is great. I do have a problem with file size though. Latest mpg2 file was less than 780 meg and Nero and VCDEasy adds data to it to push the file size up too big to burn on a disc. Yes, I'm using overburn option. I don't have this prob with VCDs. Maybe it's the 3:2 pulldown. I will try 480x480 tonight. Someone said that works without padding.

Did your SVCDs do the same??

Thanks!!

Have you tried encoding at 23.97 then using pulldown.exe from the dvd2svcd package? This plus using bbmpeg to mux may fix your filesize problem. Just a thought...

darkstar808