Wanted: Prosumer S-VHS VCR deck with line TBC
 

I am looking for an NTSC prosumer deck preferably JVC or Panasonic with tbc built in. I don't want to record to tape. I want the tape to play back really well. And if the tape is not so good, I'm hoping the included tbc will handle most of the problems/glitches/etcetc.

Not looking for the ultimate setup, rather a setup that can get me started in the field of restoration with passible quality or better. So far I am only transferring VHS and possibly S-VHS.

I've considered going out & getting a Dazzle capture device (meh...:2cents:). I saw one in action that didn't drop frames like my BlackMagicDesign Intensity Pro does. My BMD drops a lot of frames but I think my problem is not the card - it's my deck. At least that's my assumption because it a piece of junk electrohome where the s-vhs only comes out of the dvd side of things.

So I am looking here amongst all of you with a background in this field to see if I can get a system put together in the next bit.

And if it happens to be an admin who helps me get what I'm after, I will most definitely make a donation to this site as I find this site quite informative.

Thanks in advance.

I look forward to your suggestions.

Be sure to consider some of the equipment being sold in the forum already:
- http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/mark...le-jvc-hm.html
- http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/mark...-ag-ds840.html

Just in case you missed them. :)

And there's always something available on eBay, too, though conditions can vary and units may not be tested.

Trusted Sources & Availability
 

Yes I have been checking ebay for some time now. But I'm not seeing any decks that are in the list of prosumer decks here on this forum. I like the fact that there is a list of decks here that have been used/tested. I feel like I have a better sense of trust from people here on this forum after reading which ones stand out amongst the rest as I know very little about decks - this forum has been great for learning new things.

there is a seller on ebay that has 4 sr-v101us VCR's for $99 each buy-it-now

item number is 330683444284

Thanks volksjager. Anyone know much about a Panasonic PV-VS4821 SVHS VHS? Is this a model to stay away from? There is one for sale locally and would like to hear if anyone has spent some time with one of these units.

that Panny doesn't have a TBC - still looks like a at least a halfway decent deck, if it is really cheap i would grab it.

you should still look for a JVC or a AG-1980

fnub,
May be able to help you, but the shipping to Canada could be pretty high.
What kind of tapes are you looking to transfer?
Store Purchased, SP Recorded, LP Recorded, or SLP recorded.
(Please understand, sometimes you need more than 1 machnine for different types of recordings)
How important is the sound quality to you?
How important is a clean picture to you? Reduced Chroma & Luna channels
Everything I have is NTSC, all my units are professionally serviced and fully working, it may be a little bit different than buying a random unit on EBAY.

Deter

Have a few units (Every unit has a time-base corrector in it, but they all work different)

Hi Deter,

I'm basically looking to transfer any non-commercial vhs tape that someone would ask to have transferred. The sound and picture are quite important to me as I want the final product to be the best that it can be. But if I had to choose I would choose visuals over sound as most stuff recorded are some sort of live event. I planned on restoring the sound using my Pro Tools system.

What I'm trying to to is get a unit that has a good enough output to my BlackMagicDesign so that the frames don't drop out. That's why I need a machine with a TCB.

What kind of goodies do you have?

Never had any problems with drop frames on my end. Damaged Frames, YEA !!!

Actually depending on the TBC, it can cause problems for a video. It depends....

The speed of the tape is what is important to know, different decks perform different with the three speeds of the tapes.

SVHS = Best Results in SP mode = 400 lines
Normal VHS is only 240 lines

SP = Best Quality
LP = Causes some decks to get light tracking on the left side & also the right side of the picture.
SLP = Worst quality, lots of picture errors, tracking problems, video drop outs, possible sound problems, the entire ball of wax.

One VCR to fit all, I haven't found it yet....

Every VCR that recorded home recorded tapes, is going to record them a tad bit different. Hense why we all talk about tracking issues so much. Their is not 1 VCR to play all tapes, let alone home recorded tapes. Home recorded tapes are the worst to deal with, cause many of them were recorded on a crapy VCR and in SLP mode. To think you can get a perfect mint copy out of those is kind of crazy. It normally takes a hell of a lot of work.

Good Monday....
http://www.ebay.com/dsc/i.html?_nkw=...LH_TitleDesc=1

Ebay
 

Thanx for the link. I've talked to almost all of these guys. Unfortunately most of these cats won't ship to Canada. But I have my eye on a couple other decks that are there on ebay. Awesome man, thanx for the effort - supa kewl...:D

one of them is mine (the 7900) - and i do ship to Canada
i also have an SR-V101US listed

Since you're Canadian (like me) I sent you a PM.

Wow you're a power ebayer! Yeah this name remembered something to me:D

Power ebayer? Hehe ya maybe back in the day. About 10 years ago I racked my Visa up to $5700 on ebay and had to pull the plug. I came back recently and now I have the super high score of 1. :p which unit is yours?

these 2 are mine:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/JVC-HR-S7900...item4162e88a0f
http://www.ebay.com/itm/JVC-SR-V101U...item4162ddcc16

OK Thanks for that.

#1 if you are going to sell someone something why not pull your ebay listing and sell it direct, to me that is plain STUPID to give ebay free money. The final value fees and the paypal fees makes ebay rich. (It is one of the EVILS of EBAY, there is a reason why they frown on outside EBAY transactions, you do have to list things to find buyers) But than again, 80% of the electronics on ebay are junk anyway. But you still use it. I just purchased a VCR and the guy striped out the video cards, talk about a crime !!!

#2 You never answered my questions on what types of tapes your are playing, those two JVC decks only work for specific cases, the picture on some tapes looks really dull, you lose the detail. For examples, peoples faces have no detail and you can't even see them.

#3 The JVC deck is only good on certain tapes, I feel that any person restoring videos needs one. It is still a tool, you still have to know how to use it. Give someone a guitar, doesn't make them Eddie Van Halen.

#4 Both those decks listed above are almost clones of each other.

#5 I have a 7900U, still need the deck and only use it on specific videos, however on any SP or store purchased tape, use broadcast VCR's cause the picture and sound is miles better....

im not sure if you where referring to me in #1 but, another user posted a ebay link that included one of my VCRs.
then the OP stated that they didnt ship to Canada (which i do). so i felt obligated to chime in.

yes Ebay fees do suck. but ebay gets me FAR more money then i would ever get selling on other mediums- thats why i use it. ive bought and sold lots of electronics on ebay and never had an issue. i also sell motorcycle parts and am sometimes dumbfounded just how much ebay users will pay for stuff.

I just bought this deck - looks like a gooder. Should be here in a few days...
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/280835992706?...#ht_972wt_1165

"Only thing to note is the light-up Display is dimmer than normal."

Nobody ever wants to listen, this means the unit has bad/faulty caps, so it needs to be repaired....

Good luck,

PS You will have colour shifting problems with this unit, it will change tones, and you will never get the correct color/luma channels. You need to get the faults repaired.

These faults may also cause extra noise in the picture and white drop outs in the video, it just depends.

What else about the unit, no idea, would have to inspect it.

Correct. :thumb:

We just had two units inspected, and they're undergoing repairs. It runs about $200 per deck.
Work done by Jots Electronics (Arlington, Texas); online at http://www.jotselectronics.com

capacitors
 

So what you're saying is that I bought a deck with bad capacitors. And eventually this unit will stop working all together. GREAT!

Not sure what you mean about no one listening to you. I read and appreciated everything you had to say. And as far as the tapes I'm going to convert - how am I to know what the person is going to bring me? Plus I don't have the money (right now) to buy 3 or 4 machines. I was hoping to get a half decent deck to start out and save up to buy a better one. I thought the 1980 would've been a good choice as I've seen the deck go for $2500 and also saw it on Amazon between 1500 & 1700 used.

The guy who sold it to me worked at an audio visual store in Kingston Ontario - I assumed he knew what he was talking about. He assured me that the deck played fine etc etc. He also mentioned that if there was a problem that he'd be willing to work things out.

Today was the 1st time I've learned that the dull lights meant a damaged capacitor. Had I known this earlier, I would've never considered making this purchase.

It's tough going out there trying to buy a deck when you know very little about them.

So deter, when you talk about using broadcast decks, which one(s) do you use? Also, if you were just starting out, which deck(s) with built-in TBC would you personally recommend?

I have a feeling after learning about these faulty capacitors that I'm going to end up giving the box right back to the UPS guy and send the unit back.

the AG-1980 is a very nice deck when working good
the one i had recently worked awesome for a couple months then went B&W on me (Deter said bad caps as well)
i wouldnt buy another for more than $50-$75 unless it was either low mileage or had recently been serviced.
AG-1980's are commercial VCR's and alot of them have a million miles on them.

if the seller will take it back i would return it.
for what you paid you can get a perfect working higher-end JVC

there is alot of different broadcast decks.
im sure people here can fill you in on some of them
i know some only play in SP mode and have industrial connectors for audio

i know where i can get 4 of them for free right now - i just gotta go pick them up
1 Panasonic DS850
2 Panasonic DS840
1 JVC BR8600U

I just checked out examples of these 3 models on ebay. These are the types of decks I was originally checking out. But then I was humming & hawwing about having to buy a seperate TBC to deal with older tapes. My intention was to route the signal from the deck into a BMD Intensity Pro capture card. With the deck I have now, the card is dropping a lot of frames. I figured buying a prosumer deck would most likely get rid of these problems by spitting out a stronger signal for the card.

I would really like to know more about the decks you have available to you. I know you mentioned that they were free. But if they are good decks and playback well, feel free to sell it to me at whatever you feel would be a good price. I just want a desent deck to get me started.

Thanks in advance

you are going to need more than 1 deck once you get going.
there is no 1 magic VCR that plays every tape good.
if you are going to being doing transfers as a service you will probably need an arsenal of VCR's
a good start would be a JVC off LordSmurfs list

the broadcast decks i found may be a few weeks before i pick them up, then i will need to access their condition.
and they are big heavy clunky things that will cost a fortune to ship to Canada.
Deter said he had a some decks for sale as well in an earlier post

and you WILL need a separate TBC/Proc amp regardless of what VCR you get.

i just bought a KeyWest Big VooDoo BVTBC8 TBC on ebay for $75
well less than half of what an AVT-8710 cost and i dont have to worry about getting a bad one.
the same seller has 3 more (listed for $99 but has "make offer")

The decks are worth repairing. It just requires (1) a good shop, and (2) funds.
It's unlikely that you'll find a perfect AG-1980, given the demographics of the primary user base, combined with capacitor age.

I'm sure it's a general comment, not directed at any specific person. Take no offense. :2cents:

Wow... I literally just hit the 'send' button to ask the sender if he could catch the delivery before it left Ontario. Wow is this ever frustrating :confused:

Long term goal/purchases
 

Hi Deter,

So if I need a different machine for the 3 different tapes speeds, which units would I be after?

SP
LP
SLP

Which decks play the best for each mode?

Cuz if I'm going to do this the right way, I'm eventually going to need the right tools to do a good job.

Thanks in advance.

SP -- JVC is almost always best on SP
LP -- JVC is usually best with LP
EP -- Panasonic is often best on SLP/EP, does fine with LP and SP (but noisier).

What baffles me is that despite the AG-1980 being popular, yet prone to bad caps that NOBODY has come up with a repair guide for these VCRs. One shouldn't be playing "whack a mole" with capacitor replacement. There are a lot in the machine, but only some of them are in the tape's signal path. Perhaps if someone could develop a guide on which capacitors should be replaced to fix video output and leave the rest alone.

I haven't had a chance to take my machine apart (its a PITA, lotsa screws), but I suspect most of the caps that go bad are of the electrolytic variety and are hopefully NOT surface mount parts.

The problems are always different. For example, had a unit which was fully restored, than about 1 year later, the front panel started to go dim. Than saw some of the colour shifting problems, this time, it was totally different caps which were causing the problems. It was a few in the front panel and than a few in the power supply.

Why these units goes bad, no idea...Have a few Betamax machines from the 1980ties and they don't have these problems.

Maybe I write more about the AG1980's than most, cause I needed these units. The only way I found to fix the problems was to work on them with a tech, and basically learn the machines. These units are kind of out of date and unless someone works on them a lot, they kind of don't know what makes them tick.

The caps don't cost a lot of money, it is the time and everything else involved that does. Nobody is going to spend $800 on a fully fixed up AG1980 unit when they can get them for $100 broken on EBAY. You are looking at maybe $350 at the most for these units, which basically to me means, it is not worth putting a few hundred dollars in to them, to sell for a loss or $25 profit.

Now I can get these units fixed, no problem, but now you are looking at shipping charges both ways (Around $100 to $130), my work on the machine and than what I pay my tech to go in an replace what the problems are. It can be more than just caps. On the start with everything you looking at $300, again people are not interested.

When I started looking in to AG1980 units (2 years ago), I didn't do one unit, did like 7 of them, so really got to see first hand what was causing the problems.

Now I am not claiming to be some super tech, but a little more detailed than most, so I can pick up on these errors. Than from doing like 11 of them in total, kind of know what I am looking for.

"repair guide" - It is too hard to write up. Online they do have a service techs forum, that techs go in an document problems on electronics. It helps some of the techs figure out what the issues are, however the information is general and not specific to your problems. The website has a monthly fee, found all this out when doing the repair work on the MV1 with the guy in the coffee shop. Already wrote about this, that was a bad experience I blew out the circuit board using bad advise from the tech.

Are far as SP recordings go, the Panasonic AG DS840, is the best machine I have ever seen with VHS video. Did some demo tests with this unit using a brand new VHS stock recording. Wish I could post it, gave the DVD to my tech. Used two AG1980 units and two JVC decks vs this machine on the same recording. The luma signals on the AG1980 and the two JVC decks were very close. DS840, was totally different. On this test the JVC decks out preformed the AG1980, however the DS840 smoked them both away, it was night and day, for sound and video.

hmm.. sounds like i need to get off my ass and make the drive to pick those up.
what kind of cable/adapter do you need for audio on the DS840's?

The DS850 was the recording deck to the DS840, don't know much about it, but I do have a AG7355, it is missing a knob on the front panel, the playback works on the unit, but when you send a signal in from another VCR it is in Black and White. Just haven't had anytime. Wanted to look at how these machines records tapes. The AG7355 doesn't have a TBC and it will play any recorded tape. Was wondering about the DS850 if you can play LP or SLP tapes on it and if it has a TBC. The AG7355 has normal audio outputs also.

AUDIO CABLES FOR THE DS840:
Made the mistake and went to radio shack looking for these cables, it was like $60 (for 1 audio cable + the other adapters), and had to make some hybrid out of it. They didn't have the cables. (Wanted to test out the unit, only got one of these sets, to be honest, it was pain, so I took the cables back) told the guy his plan didn't work.

Around Christmas went to Best Buy, and was shopping in the Guitar section. The guy had no clue what I was talking about, he told me to look through the cables. Couldn't find anything.

Decided to go an mess around with the soundboard mixer they had in the back, on the shelves saw these cables for 87 cents. They were microphone output to RCA. This is basically what I got, it was last years cables, they are mic to rca.

EDIT JUST FOUND THEM ON BEST BUY'S WEB SITE HERE IS THE LINK:

Hosa - XRF-103 Audio Cable (These are three feet cables, you have to look around, mine are about 12 feet)

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Hosa+-+X...494883&st=Hosa - XRF-103 Audio Cable&cp=1&lp=1

They can be had for less at Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Hosa-Female-Au...1070865&sr=8-1

Note: I have dealt with the marketplace vendor listed (STSI) in the past. They are a reliable source for cables with good prices. If you want to order direct, this is their site: http://store.stsi.com/

gonna try to pick these up next Wednesday (it is a 2 hour drive)
i'll let you know about the DS850 (if it works)

i was looking at a pic of the 840 and noticed it has component outs.
is there any capture cards with component? would it have any advantage over S-video?

Not entirely true, I'm afraid. :2cents:

We have a bad unit here. These would sometimes have random pixel noise on screen, because the video goes through an A>D>A process that isn't always transparent. It's really bad on s-video, but near-invisible on composite connections. We've considered selling it to a user that wants a low-cost TBC to simply transfer their store-bought tapes to "watching quality" DVDs (for kids, car trips, etc).

It's a rare issue, but it happens.

ive used on 3 tapes:
a greyhound race recorded with a camera
a boxing match recorded with a vcr off HBO
and a commercial movie - (to see if it defeated macrovision)

it performed fine on all 3
i scored a BVTBC10 as well
i tried it on the same tapes but i cant see much difference between the 2

i did read about someone having trouble with the original BVTBC (not the 8 or 10)

i picked up the 850 and the 2 840's
the 850 is SP only as well. it does have TBC
it is basically identical to the 840 except is has record and edit capabilities.

they have hour meters
all the decks have about 5000 hours on the drums and 1000 hours on capstans.
i dont know if that is good or bad for these decks.