If you do not have any, buy some. It is not costly.
https://www.amazon.com/Dry-Desiccant.../dp/B00J0JB6KK
is but one of many potential sources. But I don't know what is convenient for you.

The following provides some information on its use and capabilities for museum-like applications, which might have some validity for CD/DVD/BD storage. However, the information is somewhat technical. Don't expect us to interpret it for you. You will have to determine to what extent it applies to you specific situation. The issue of course is how to maintain the RH in the 40-60% range

https://cool.conservation-us.org/waa.../wn23-206.html

https://www.google.com/search?q=sili...Zp0oQfM:&vet=1

Come on, I've been on to you for years...you're really gamey in disguise right!? :P

If I don't get back here before then, Happy New Year to everyone! :congrats:

LS...”outside the box”
Me...”what color is the box?”
Have a great and safe New Year, everyone!

Kelly Bundy: "the color bleen, a cross between blue and green". :laugh:

Hi

I haven't had time to look back through the entirety of this thread, (there does seem to be a lot of it), and maybe someone has suggested this before.

Have you considered / tried / investigated having your optical discs vacuum packed ? You could even throw in a couple of silica gel sachets for good measure.

Mike

Interesting. :congrats:

To the extent there is air (or other gas) inside the disc, the external vacuum could create enough pressure to open a glue seam, at least enough to vent, and that could allow air/and other vapors to enter over time reducing life.

Pop a couple discs in a bell jar and pull a vacuum, see what happens.

Or maybe try one of those "Food Saver" machines COSTCO sells. Of course one would have to break the package open to use the disc, but it might work for archiving.

But the OP may not have access to such a device.

I find conversation like this quite fascinating. It's why I tolerate the seeming insane question. We've gotten many nuggets of interesting information from some of our OP's threads.

Arrghhh...I hate posting to a gamey thread, but this is interesting. A vacuum sealed bag isn't completely air impermeable as bagged foods in the freezer can still develop frost on the surface and dry out. Also, the infamous Flexplay DVD discs in which the dye was designed to deteriorate 48 hours after the discs were exposed to air, had an estimated one year lifespan in the sealed bag.

"A Flexplay disc is shipped in a vacuum-sealed package. There is a clear dye inside the disc, contained within the bonding resin of the disc, which reacts with oxygen. When the seal is broken on the vacuum-packed disc, the layer changes from clear to black in about 48 hours, rendering the disc unplayable. If unopened, the shelf life of the sealed package is said to be "about a year". The DVD plastic also has a red dye in it, which prevents penetration of the disc by blue lasers, which would go straight through the oxygen-reactive dye."

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flexplay

Also, FoodSaver bags have a diamond pattern on the inside to facilitate drawing as much air out of the bag as possible. I sealed some magazines in them and when I opened them, there was a faint impression of the pattern on the back and front.

Back in the day, I worked in a plant where we made fiberglass casting tape (as in for stabilizing set broken bones). If you've had a cast in the last 30 years it was probably similar. The resin used was a moisture curing urethane which would start to cure immediately if exposed to normal, ambient air. The processing was done in special rooms where the RH was kept very low.

The finished rolls were packaged in a foil laminate pouch which consisted of at least 3 layers, the most critical being the aluminum foil in the middle (the actual moisture barrier) which was very thin. There was an outer polymer layer that was primarily to protect the foil and to provide a substrate for graphics, etc. We used various outer layers. I believe nylon was one option even though it by itself is a terrible moisture barrier. Inside the foil was a layer of heat sealable polymer, generally a low density polyethylene. I think we shot a spurt of dry nitrogen into the pouch just before it was sealed. Desiccants would not have helped since the resin was already it's own stronger desiccant.

The shelf life of the product was at least a few years but not forever. I recently threw out some sample rolls I'd kept from some experiments 30 years ago. Some were just a bit soft in places, but none were usable.

So if you're looking for about the best moisture proof package, a foil laminate pouch would be an option if you can find one. They are quite expensive and typically custom made to a purpose/product. You'd also need a heat sealer to seal the discs in. Of course the pouches would be single use only so this is most likely an archive only option.

I believe there has been quite a bit of progress in creating all polymer moisture barrier films, typically either co-polymers or multi-polymer laminates but I don't think they ever work as well as foil. The films used for "Food Saver" vacuum packaging might well be co-polymers, I don't know. That may be the most practical solution. I'd be skeptical of adding a desiccant since they might not be chemically inert. But that might still be the best option if you are in a humid environment. Better if you could do it in Minnesota in the winter when the air is already bone dry :wink2:

Not that it directly applies to optical storage, but but consider two things:

1. How quickly helium leaks from a conventional balloon, but does not leak as fast from the metalized balloons.

2. How plastic bottled water bottles tends to "shrink" over time. That is loss of content to the surrounding atmosphere.

The good news is that the "Food Saver" packaged frozen foods do last a lot longer before freezer burn compared to standard store packaging. What it does is delay the inevitable.

We had a discussion of this on another of gamey's endless threads. Almost all plastics are air and moisture permeable to some degree at a molecular level. This article Food Packaging Permeability Behaviour: A Report is way, way above my head but I can understand the introduction:

So maybe if gamey puts his discs in a glass or metal container, draws a complete vacuum, then melts or welds the container shut, there's a chance that air and moisture won't have effect. However I just thought of "but" factor. Any non-inert particles, even at molecular level could potentially attack the discs so the creation of the container would have to be done in a NASA+ grade cleanroom. :screwy:

I just had a thought: If you dunk the discs in water, and those then immune to moisture? :laugh:

City water often contains chlorine...:yikes:

There is a story, true it seems, of a 20 year old non-refrigerated hamburger from MacDonalds that looks absolutely fresh.
If there is a way to write data to whatever the heck is actually sittin' tween those buns, we might have a breakthrough.

I got it! Use natron! Keeps things mummy fresh for thousands of years!

I hate gamey's threads, but it's so much fun when he's not around! :rolleyes:

:hmm:I forget what kids show this is from, but one of the characters asked "If I'm in the water, can I get any wetter?" Wow, the simplicity and complexity of the question has kept me pondering ever since!:congrats: