Elgato video capture audio out of sync?
 

Hi, I bought few months ago Elgato Video Capture usb grabber, and digitized around 60-80 tapes so far. And I really like it, but on two tapes I noticed audio went out of sync, not instantly but after like 20-30 minutes. On one tape it cames back to sync after like 10 min. but on other one is out of sync from 40 min. of tape till the end. Any idea whats going on there ? I play video in elgate software on that specific time but audio is good, so it must be when video is converting to my laptop or something.

I am converting on Windows OS, with i5 8gen laptop with 16GB RAM. I didn't try passthrough with ES10 but I don't think it would make any difference cause I think it's something with elgato not VCR or anything else, but I could be wrong.

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Just to add:

When playing video in VLC player it de-sync, and in other players too. When I play it in elgato on that exact place when it de-sync audio is normal but it's not capturing at that time only viewing. So my only suspect is elgato when it's doing mixdown of final file, that something went wrong.

I am doing re-capturing now without ES-10 and will see how it goes. And after that I will test with ES-10.

Forgot to mention VCR is clean no dirty head or audio head.

Accidental off-topic posts removed. :cool:

Typical problem here
- lack of TBCs causes audio to drift out of sync; some form of TBC is required, it's not optional
- Elgato cards are known as "Elcrapo" for a reason -- they're terrible quality

ES10 is a very minimalist form of TBC(ish). Combined with better capture cards, it can suffice. Or not. But better than nothing at all, which is the case here.

Image quality also massively improves with ES10/15 and another card. You're literally using a "do not do this!" method right now.

As I know my JVC HR-S7960 have very good TBC and it's turned On.

I saw that a lot of youtubers that are doing capturing are using like 20 elgato usb video grabber for capturing. Non of them said it's garbage...

A lot of Youtubers also believe the earth is flat, the moon landing was faked, Trump won, etc. Youtube is the general population, and the general population contains a large % of complete morons.

People that like Elgato almost always have no basis for comparison (to better cards), and the main importance to them was to have a cheap (Chinese) capture card that cost less than a cheeseburger.

The JVC VCR contains a line TBC, not frame. Line does not prevent dropped frames. The ES10 is a strong+crippled line TBC(ish) paired with a non-TBC frame sync. That unique combo will bake in errors in a semi-timed way, to often (not always) avoid audio sync and dropped frames. But noting it's a not transparent like actual TBCs, you do lose some visual quality.

haha good point there.

I didn't have any other problems until this caputuring with it, all other ~60 tapes that I captured were without any problems. And most of them I captured without ES-10, I didn't need it cause they were not in bad shape.

So if I understand you correctly I should re-capture that tape with ES-10 and see how it goes ?

If you have access to an ES10 right now, try it.

But a better capture card is still suggested. You lost a lot of quality in those 60-80 tape conversations. And you're probably overlooking a lot of issues from spot checking as you're doing.

Just don't toss the tapes, keep them for when you want better.

Ofc I have it, and did fresh recap on PSU and motherboard on it. It works like a charm.

I'll try it with ES-10 when I get home from work.

I just got this elgato so I'm going to stick with it for some time now until I repay vcr and grabber with digitizing.

All tapes stay on my shelf, there are some good stuff on them that don't exist on youtube yet.

No need for "ofc", I often forget who has what. ;)

What stuff?
Are you a toon or TV show collector?
We may have already chatted, but I forget, too sidetracked lately for anything fun. :(

I have some YoMTV Rap stuff rare videos, BlackMusic MCM, some stuff recorded from 90s live concert that my friends and I organized like DJ Premier in Croatia here in my country, Masta Ace in Croatia for the first time. I also captured some local synch cartoons and other stuff.

We did chat about what vcr to get :D but we didn't chat about what tapes I have.

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Should I turn On video stabilization while ES-10 is connected or should I turn it off, don't know if it will make any difference...

VCR TBC off --> DMR-ES10 --> capture

You have a 7960, but you're using an Elgato to capture?? That is a bizarre combination. Great VCR, but one of the worst capture choices. Would you be interested in the highest quality digitzation that your VCR can give you?

:smack: None of the ElgatoTubers are doing anything involving quality. They are making videos, to get views, to get paid. You get the most views by saying, "L@@K!!1! SuPeR E-Z, I was SHOCKED!1!! $3 on AMAZON!1one!!" That's why none of them ever discuss comparisons with better capture equipment -- They don't know, and they don't care. You watched their videos, YouTube registered your views, the ElgatoTubers get paid, and that's it.

Depends on your definition of "problems." Some would say capturing with an Elgato device means 100% of the captures have problems.

If you want to get the best quality capture out of your (expensive?) 7960, here are 2 examples of major problems.

Are you still in the return window to send it back and get a refund?

Compared to what?

Why not try the ES10 and then know for sure?

Agreed. Problems.

Regardless, a better capture device is highly recommended. No one is being mean here, but trying to help you. Lots of people get tricked into buying Elgato junk, and then find out afterward. Some make a logical choice to upgrade for proper quality, some don't.

I get it elgato is garbage I know that no one is mean here and just trying to help me :)

But for now until I repay it and VCR it would serve a purpose. After repay I will get some new capturing device. What do you recommand, and are they expensive I give 100 euros for this elgato, and thats a lot for me plus 400 euros for vcr. Don't know if I can still return this elgato I bought it from amazon.

I just did re-capture with ES-10 and there is still out of sync audio maybe less noticable than without ES-10 but it's still there, and not always but on some parts and then it returns to sync again...Now I have to adjust sound manually in Vegas...

100??!!! :depressed: I thought they were ~20. You can check your Amazon order info and it will show the Elgato purchase and show you the return info. If you have even 1 day remaining to return it, I'd pack it up and get it out immediately to be refunded.

My recommendation is one of the Pinnacle or ATI USB devices which lordsmurf has for sale. I see there is a PAL version of the Pinnacle USB, and maybe the ATI USB is multi-format. He and others can best advise you on that.

The main concerns for you right now are the life of your tapes and the time being spent on this. It's best to minimize the number of times you play each tape, so doing multiple re-captures while chasing down problems is not ideal. While doing that, you're also wasting your time. And if you're using something like an Elgato, then you're also getting a low-quality digital capture. It's a bad combination.

Instead, you can either get the Elgato refunded, or sell it locally online, or on eBay, etc. Hopefully it could be sold for ~75, so you only lose 25. Save money as needed until you can purchase a proper capture device like those for sale from lordsmurf, which are priced around 150-175. Then you can start from the beginning and capture every tape with your new workflow. You'll also be able to compare afterward and visually see the quality improvement from a better capture device.

In this case, it's best to pause the project, make the adjustments, and then continue.

Yeah it was 100 euros.

I saw his pinnacle USB what model is that ? And why is there PAL and NTSC version ? So If I have NTSC tape my vcr supports NTSC tapes, will I be able to record it ?

All other tapes that were recorded via elgato didn't have any stutter, audio was ok on all of them. Ok I get it they can be recorded in way better quality and all that. I know elgato captures in low bitrate and their de-interlacing is very bad.

Does Pinnacle USB have some kind of software for recording like elgato have or you must use OBS or some other ?

You will get a tremendous improvement in quality if you immediately delete the junk software that the Elgato comes with, and instead use OBS to capture to a lossless format. Elgato's software has the worst de-interlacing and compression artifacts I've ever seen, and it's a shame that those "professionals" on YouTube are ruining so many people's videos by using it.

But it will still be hamstrung by the cheap analog-to-digital converter chip it uses, and the lack of a TBC (although in this case it's offset by your VCR having one built-in).

I get it. But their software is very easy to use and at the end of the capture trim and export. But I noticed with elgato you need to delete it's audio source from device manager to get it worked.

OBS may have improved recently to include analog capture capability but it's still a swiss knife tool like NLE, not specialized in analog capture, Vdub or at least AmarecTV are the most know software for this task.

Don't delete the driver...

And how is one to do that?

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I have a Pinnacle 710-USB from Lordsmurf and it has stopped working on later versions of Win 10, and Win 11. Beware. I'd insist on a "return" option.

If you are implying that the Elgato doesn't have a TBC, you are probably right. However, nor do any of the other consumer digitisers that I am aware of.

You appear to fail to understand that the reason the video is much more stable when recording to a DVD recorder is because it is acting as the TBC (your YT on the Elgato also refers). GotMemories proves that in one of his videos. He runs a wobbly tape, which LegacyBox returned as virtually unwatchable, through an ES-35V (from a "crappy" VCR, I might add) and the picture was rock-steady. So it's not the Elgato causing the wobbling.

Tnx for the info. Any suggested Pinnacle to bought then ?

Is Pinnacle Dazzle DVD Recorder HD ok ?

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forgot to mention and that it works with virtualdub, because I see some pinnacle doesn't for some reason.

I don't want to buy some questionable compatibility device with modern today PCs.

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I was reading that Pinnacle dazzle dvc100/101 are good capturing devices. I read also that they have some kind of issues on Win 10, but people manage to get it work as it should. I just can't find those anywhere except in US, that would cost me a lot. But I found this Pinnacle Dazzle DVD Recorder HD on amazon for 64 euros, don't know if it use the same chip inside as dvc 100,101 and 107.

P.S
I tried elgato with virtualdub and it lag alot, I tried OBS studio and when adding capturing device I got BSOD :D

No, Dazzle cards are junk. Where did you read that it was good?

On youtube there is guy named ConsumerDV and video is called Which Pinnacle Dazzle?

A lot of the younger crowd here have tried some bad YouTube method before they came here. We got bad results or just nothing worked right then you come here and figure out why and then you go from that to getting really good captures.

I have now just one bug in my workflow and it's elgato :D

I bought used VCR JVC HR-S9760E and it's working great, I bought broken ES-10 that has so much broken stuff on it but I manage to fix it and get it work like a charm now. And last that bug capturing card Elgato, which I didn't test before in VirtualDub, and yesterday I did, and it was working very shitty in it, most of the time it wasn't working at all. I didn't try in other softwares...

Do so. Try AmarecTV. My guide here.

And I hope you didn't uninstall the Elgato software as suggested above by VWestlife because you need the driver.

Will do today. I didn't uninstall anything, but software and drivers are separate from each other, so even If I did it should work.

It's not working I set it up by your manual and I got this message

Arrr... you've come across the comma vs fullstop-decimal point issue. It appears some digitisers have trouble with AmarecTV if Windows is set to use/display a decimal point as a comma instead of a fullstop. This DigitalFAQ topic refers:

https://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/vid...g-gv-usb2.html

This may also be causing the problems with VDub.

Try changing your Decimal symbol from a "comma" to a "fullstop" in Windows Settings:

Windows Settings>
Time and Language>
Administrative Language Settings>”Formats” tab>
Additional Settings>
Change the Decimal symbol to a fullstop/period.

Did you disable sound in VirtualDub? (right-click video window and deselect sound if memory serves right) It will lag/drop frames if sound is enabled for some reason.

I have both an Elgato and a Diamond VC 500 (which is generally recommended over the Elgato in these forums, but I personally can't tell much of a difference after extensive testing) and they work fine in VirtualDub.

Even if you don't want to replace your Elgato, if you remove the Elgato SOFTWARE application from your workflow that would help a lot. Here's a simple test I did last year using the exact same hardware (the elgato) and comparing the included software with LordSmurf's VirtualDub/Huffyuv instructions:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1GQXEsKsYg

Hi, thanks for the tip. I think I saw your videos before, you are the one with two beautiful haskies :)

I'll play with it this weekend and test a bit.

Btw support from elgato gave me trick to force elgato to use 3.5Mbps bitrate instead of 0.75 by default.

they send me this on mail

The value used by the Elgato Video Capture software is the default that is useful in most situations. That said, it can be changed by doing the following:

1) Quit the Video Capture software if it's running, via the tray icon.
2) Start File Explorer and enter the following path in the address bar: %appdata%\Elgato\VideoCapture
3) Edit the Settings.xml file with Windows Notepad or other text editing software.
4) Replace <VideoBitrateScale>.075</VideoBitrateScale> with a higher value, up to 3.5 maximum.
5) Save the Settings.xml file.
6) Relaunch the Video Capture software.

Please note the recording file sizes will be larger after doing this.

As for the audio and de-interlacing, please reply to this email with a sample of what you're getting after making the above changes.

Hope that this helps others who still use elgato.

That is very interesting news. Thanks for sharing.

That might quieten down @VWestlife.

Pity they haven't put in a bitrate option into the GUI.

Product support. Pretty impressive for cheap chinese junk. :wink2:

I told them to rework that software a bit and put that option inside and some other, I bet elgato is capable of some other options too, and wrote me some generic answer... they will forward my ass :D

We appreciate your suggestion, I will forward this through the appropriate channels, so it could possibly be implemented in future releases of the Elgato Video Capture software!

Is that a high enough bitrate? I’m capturing to Huffy in Vdub with a Pinnacle 710 using windows 10 and I’m using 8.6 Mbps and Huffy is compressing losslessly at 2:4:1 so it is compressing the video in half.

What codec are you capturing to? The way codecs compress is important. It’s not just the bitrate.

Pinnacle 710 is another story it's like comparing Mclaren with Opel :D

3.5Mbps is highest that device can give apparently. Don't know about codec because you can't choose what codec to use, I'll try to find out these days and check everything out.

Not so. HUFF is "compressing" from "Uncompressed" by 2.4 times. You have no control over the capture bitrate, which is around 58Mbps, not 8.6.

The Elgato would be capturing to MP4 (probably H264). 3.5Mbps is more than ample for SD video in H264.

What bitrate are you using for your MP4 exports, Gary?

It’s 68. Also this is digitalfaq not days of our lives chill out with the drama Hushpower.

"As the world turns, so do the days of our lives..." and that is literally all I remember about that show, as it was my queue to change the channel. :laugh:

I'm not closely following this conversation, but it really is as easy as
#1 = Elgato is a low end card, low end quality.
#2 = H.264 ("MP4") is a delivery format, never intended for capture. Much like DV, it has multiple lossy issues. H.264 specifically errs on the side of soft/mush, to avoid blocks.

We all deserve better quality.

Elgato does not deserve your money here. (They make several great products, but the capture cards are junk.)

That guy is low-knowledge video-newbie troll, and was banned multiple times from multiple sites. His videos are a mess of fact and non-fact, and only gullible newbies fall prey to his nonsense.

We truly do live in an age of misinformation. Vet your sources. Don't trust random people.

Just calling out unfactual information, Gary. Other people read this stuff and on DigitalFAQ it's (probably) treated as gospel, at least more so than elsewhere.

Just to confirm, this is correct. However...

Bitrate is never exact, not even on CBR. That also means that "3.5" for an Elgato isn't 3.5 either. It's a setting to constrain range-bound near that number. And even a "3.5" is based on the codec, as the same quality with MPEG-2, x265, or DivX would differ.

Huffyuv has no such setting, and defaults to file compression, not video data/content compression. For that reason, Huffyuv really has no "bitrate" in the normal sense. Lossless encoding is detached from the normal video usage of that jargon. You can refer to data bitrate, but it's not really the same.

Consider the Adobe definition of bitrate, as found as the quoted text in a Google search:
"Bitrate refers to depth of information, whether in video or audio" ... "It's often measured as the amount of information per second."

But there is no depth to the information here, as it's still uncompressed visually. The data is compressed, not the info. The info is 99.9%+ 1:1 to uncompressed.

The 3 of here surely know this, but I'm writing this here for the benefit of the lurkers, the site readers.

I would hesitate to call this "unfactual".

And to illustrate, consider an early episode of The Big Bang Theory. Sheldon tells Stuart that "wrong" is a binary state. But Stuart correctly illustrates that it's not an absolute.

- To say a tomato is a vegetable is a little wrong.
- To say a tomato is a suspension bridge is very wrong.

When you get into complex discussions like this, it's not fair to chastise for a minor point that needs a corrections. I agree, it needs follow-up for clarification. But not to the extent that the connotation is that the information is bogus. Because it's not bogus, just a wee off.

After all, tomatos (tomatoes) are sold next to the heads of lettuce, not the apples and oranges. :wink2:

Being a "little wrong" isn't a sin. And honestly, how it gets addressed almost matters more. We see this too much in politics, and the "us vs. them" seeps too much into video/whatever these days. You can't even have a civil conversation on a group that discusses fantasy robot toys. I try to not have that sort of discourse here, when discussions get into advanced nuance.

But again, you are correct on this nugget of nuance. :)

I don't consider 6.8mbps for HUFF a nuanced error. It's not within a bulls-roar of being right.

I was going to call those points I raised "furphies" but thought I'd be a little more diplomatic so as not to upset anyone. :wink2:

As for Sheldon, I saw him in Hidden Figures. His presence ruined the movie IMO. I cringed very time I saw him! :(

Yeah, I didn't quite understand "and I’m using 8.6 Mbps and Huffy is compressing losslessly at 2:4:1", but it was clarified to the apparent data bitrate for a file (68). But none of that matters anyway, for the reasons I stated. It's just too easy to fumble math, or misread analysis reports (MediaInfo, etc). Clarification needed.

furphies --- I learned a new word. :)

Yeah, Jim Parsons is really is not that great of an on-screen actor. He found a perfect role in Sheldon, but his other non-voiceover work is not easy to suspend disbelief. TBBT made him rich, so he probably doesn't need another role anyway. "He has a face for radio", and his voice work is good. I bet he'll stay in voice roles. But if you ever heard his interviews, he's an odd duck in real life, too.

But even that couldn't be right; That was the answer to my question: what bitrate he uses for his MP4 exports. Obviously not 68!