Hi group,

Very sad to report that, at the near end of my journey trying to build an XP SP2 capture box (as a Mac user, complete Windows imbecile...I'm trying), I have just found that the ATI All in Wonder 9600 XT (found on leboncoin in France), is missing some cables and appears to be damaged. :depressed:

Missing: everything but the squid cable
Squid cable: looked ok until I installed and saw weird fragments on screen. I unplugged the cable and saw that one of the pins appears to be missing and stuck inside the card. The seller told me this was like this from the manufacturer (which it may be for all i know. Seemed a strange coincidence.

The card is still powering the VGA monitor, with little ugly artefacts everywhere. I was thinking maybe I can extract the stuck pin and replace the cable, but I am afraid that things won't be suitable for my capture project given its state. I was also unsure if the S-video connector attached to the squid cable was the s-video used for video input or if it was the breakout box (which was missing).

I was hoping someone with a lot more experience with these cards, admin or lordsmurf perhaps, could advise on where or not I should try and salvage this situation or if it is better to just return the card and try again? Or maybe this fragment / artefact issue comes from the incorrect driver? I used the 180-V01036-100 disc.

-- merged --

All that and I forgot my manners! My apologies – happy new year to all! :)

-- merged --

Hi again,

Day three on this now and I kind of think now I wish I could delete this post to not look more stupid.
After lots of driver hunting and several reinstalls of the card, I am starting to think that perhaps the card I have may not be one that was recommended.

What I have:
ATI All in Wonder 9600 XT Sapphire PN 102A0901000 - it is AGP with the Theatre 200 chipset, but I have recently noticed there are several versions of the All in Wonder 9600 XT (I thought it was just the one).

The one I have doesn't *appear* to have inputs for capture. It has the squid cable, which has an S-Video cable on it of course, and some TV and FM inputs, but no Mini DIN, unlike the other version.

Did I screw up my purchase?
I've attached pics of the version I have:

Short answer: no, I don't think this is the card you want. I do not remember but others might - I think this card might have fallen more into their "TV Wonder" line (though ATI was admittedly fond of confusingly reusing their product names and codes on dissimilar products), which would pick up analog TV from an antenna or cable, but skipped the video inputs? Other than that the squid/horsetail/etc should not have a pin broken off and stuck in the card, I'm fairly confident of that, but I have never owned this card and will leave confirmation to others.

Opinions vary about this, but for the very careful shopper I personally would aim for an All-In-Wonder 9000 if I wanted to stay in XP/AGP land and had to buy a new card tomorrow. All you then need is the purple ingest cable (still somewhat common), and if you can patch the audio directly from the 4-pin connector on the board to your audio card, even better - though the audio breakout cable for that card is uncommon, but not terribly rare. DVI port built right into the back of the card for your monitor, no squid needed.

Careful shopping is absolutely key, you're going to have to up your game on that end a little bit. With some very deliberate and vigilant browsing a good AIW 9000 can still be had for a reasonable price. Forget the remote and all the stuff that comes with a complete box, it is all useless for capture except the proprietary purple ingest cable.

Or, if you want to move up a little into a USB device and known-good condition, I believe our host still has a few kicking around.

The problem with that specific card is the cables are often not included. I've often thought about just tacking on an S-Video input to the appropriate corresponding pins on that proprietary connector, but the issue then is that you'd have to do the same for your display connector as most motherboards aren't going to allow the use of two graphics cards, so what would have been just soldering 3-4 wires (Ground, Luma, and Chroma, and maybe composite) becomes a lot more. Probably wouldn't be impossible to 3D print a pin holder to mate up to it. but again, that's a lot of work.

Agree that the 9000 AGP variant is probably the lowest priced and relatively easy to find, but the 9200 has fewer SMT capacitors which can potentially be points of failure if you can find one. I just recap all of mine, but there's lots of potential to harm the card if you don't have much experience doing that.

I do think that card is an AIW even though it does not have the more common mini-din connector for the inputs. As aramkolt has implied, that brown header is very likely the video and audio inputs for the card. Most of the PCIe AIWs have similar headers in addition to their more normally used “silver stab” dongle connections on the backplate.

Here’s a discussion of the I/O connectors on the PCIe cards. Posts #27 and #39 are particularly relevant.
https://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/vid...-x800xt-2.html

Also useful could be the following:
https://www.manualslib.com/manual/42...o-Adapter.html

Note that the s-video and audio connector on your squid dongle are outputs, not inputs. Also interesting is the location of your cards header vs the more typical mini-din for the inputs.

In summary, if you have time (return window?) I think I’d further evaluate the squid connection for monitor output. Maybe one of the two VGA connectors works OK. If you can’t get a monitor to work reliably, the card and dongle are definitely a no go. If that much works, then I’d progress to seeing if you can get AIW drivers installed and working to prove it is an AIW. If drivers work then you could progress to a test of the header connections. You could cobble a composite connection (just 2 pins) and see if a video signal can be input, seen and even captured. For s-video of course you’d need to connect 4 pins. You don’t need to connect the audio to the AIW at all, just route it directly to the line-in on the sound card.

Obviously, that’s a bit of work and work arounds just to maybe salvage it.
Finding a 9000 or 9200 could well be easier.

My 2cents
BW

One other note: the squid dongle has one unused pin “location”. That is, there is a space where a pin could be but by design, there isn’t one there, nor is there a socket for the pin to go into on the card/female side. Is this what you are seeing or do you actually see a broken pin? Maybe post a picture of the squid cable connector just to confirm…

I believe that, on the AIW 9600, and non-AIW 9600, the proprietary cable connector is the same, but the cables vastly differ. It's now been many years since I saw both.

The problem with the 9600 is that the graphics output is VGA anyway. If you're making an AGP AIW build, then you're better off getting a card with direct DVI on the board. Don't focus too much on Theatre200 (9000s) vs Theatre100/Rage (7000s). That mostly mattered for the Ligos MPEG encoding*, not for the AVI lossless.

* Even I don't capture MPEG all that much anymore, as I can buy a 22tb HDD for ~$350 now. It's not 2005 anymore, where we still measured drive by tens/10s of GB (60gb, 80gb, etc). We now have thousands/1,000s of GBs (TB).

First off, thank you all for the replies, they're very much appreciated.

Yes, I have since confirmed the pin layout (attached a diagram I found) and indeed, this pin was not broken, but just never there. I was mistaken, hastily assumed in my attempt to find an explanation for the artefacts I was getting on screen.

I bought a Terratec SiXPack 5.1 which has that Crystal CS4630 chip that the Turtle Beach Santa Cruz has (hoping this will be for audio). I have read here and had confirmed via a test last night from someone who has both the purple box and the domino box with the purple cable that these video-input breakouts with the purple cables are interchangeable. This is now my third attempt at buying a card...the first was a beautiful, nearly new AIW X800XL with all the accessories (including the domino box). I am hoping that should suffice on the next round! Once finished, this X800XL will probably find its way to the marketplace here. Im gutting...i have no PCI-e slots in the XP machine I bought.

Understatement of the year, that! I am slowly learning though, thank you all.

It is very odd as installing the card, the system seems to recognise two pieces of hardware, one graphics card and one video capture card, but as suggested, the panel has a strange layout that doesn't suggest that. Just a proprietary squid cable connect, and FM connector and a TV Tuner connector. It came with the squid connector, but any kind of soldering and or 3D printing would have me in tears I am sure. I botch the easiest jobs – it will be way easier to just find a different card I reckon.

I wasn't able to find the manual for this specific Sapphire version of the card –*the manual you linked in above seems to focus on the one I wish I had, with the video in port. I was wondering if the S-video connector on the squid cable on mine might be an input with the VGA an output, but worried also about the artefacts and where or not that would affect the capture quality.

Interesting! I am so curious to know why the system is recognising as a capture card given this. I don't know where capture would be possible if these were all inputs (except maybe if the TV input had a breakout box to add this?

Sadly, I did try this to no avail. Both VGA monitor outputs in the squid cable produced the same artefacts. I installed my old junky graphics card again and the artefacts disappeared.
Thank you –*that sounds pretty definitive! I have packed the card up to ship it back.

I am on the hunt again. I have a family member visiting me from the US next month, so may have her mule it over to me in France, but hopefully I can find something on this side of the world sooner. The cards seem to be mostly over there. I have NTSC tapes to capture here, which initially frightened me, but I have read on the forum that the cards are OK capturing both by switching some settings in VirtualDub? I have a Sony EV-S9000E to play them (which I read also plays NTSC just fine). A lot of variables to consider.

I have posted pictures of everything for reference to make it all clearer. Upon inspection of that S-Video cable, I can definitely see the arrow as output.

Thank you all so much for the notes and advice.

This may also be pertinent info, something I posted in another ATI thread tonight:

The 9600 squid accepts the purple/domino dongle, the VGA output, and "other stuff" (not used, not important). I have one last working 9600 card. If/when it fails, I'm done with AGP AIW (moving "backwards" to PCI AIW and newer system hardware). That card has/had some amazing MPEG capture ability, with multiple monitors, back when I cared about that sort of thing (before ultrawide monitors, before large HDDs for lossless storage).

Ah, interesting. I have the AIW 9600 Pro on a shelf (breakout cable is in someone else's basement at the moment, long story) which has the separate jack for the ingest cable on the back of the card. The "squid" on that one is all outputs from what I recall. But, being able to connect the ingest cable to the squid on the 9600 XT being discussed makes a lot more sense considering it falls under the AIW banner.

Edited to add: looked at the OP's pictures of their squid and am wondering if this comment from above is actually more the case on this particular card: "that brown header is very likely the video and audio inputs for the card".

Anyway, the 9600 Pro I bought new waaay back, but the small stockpile of happy 9000s I have all came from online used purchase. Risky indeed, but still able to pay off. Sometimes.

Ahh ok, this is very interesting. I was just buying based on info in the threads I have read, but really I am only interested in lossless AVI. I have the X800XL but that is PCI-e and I have read on around here that those can be a bit less than ideal.

Which cards are the best bet right now for a lossless AVI setup?

@ the OP: As I said, if you cannot get a good VGA signal out of either VGA1 or VGA2 of the output "squid" I think this card/squid combo is not worth pursuing. The squid might be worth keeping if you REALLY want to get an AIW 9600 for some reason. At least on this side of the pond, they are much more available without the squid. This of course actually makes them completely non-functional (no display output at all...).

Someone like aramkolt might be bold enough to try to resurrect that card by replacing all the caps, but for most of us mere mortals, that would be a non-starter. :D

But on to the discussion of the particulars of your oddball Sapphire AIW (I believe) card, for posterity I guess :hmm:

In addition to the discussion of brown I/O headers I linked earlier which was focused on finding ways around missing I/O (Silver Stab) dongles/squids for PCIe cards, there is other documentation of the brown internal headers as used on both AIW 9600 and 9000 "Pro" cards as shown in the images I've added below. So I think they are likely a viable way to get the video input into the card. Again I'd simply bypass the AIW and input the audio directly to the sound card.

As far as the "squid" connectors on AIW 9600's, all of the documentation I can find indicates that every connection on these is an output. There are no inputs, and AFAIK, there is no 8 pin din connector for the purple dongle which would be for inputs as on most all AIWs. The Silver Stab dongle/squids DO include the these 8 pin din connectors for A/V input.

So I believe LS is mixing up the Silver Stab "dongle/squids" with the 9600 multi-output "squid" when he states:
Attached images regarding the brown, 8 pin internal input headers. The first is from page 50 of the AIW 9600 manual I linked in my earlier post. The second is from the post #39 of that other long thread I linked where jwillis84 dug it up in a manual for AIW 9000 Pro.
Sooooo my speculation is that Sapphire decided to cut costs on their card and include only the internal header for inputs, possibly assuming that the vast majority of users would use the card mostly for DVR type purposes. I know that's how I used my original AIW 7200 circa 2002. I never tried to use the video inputs until I decided to try to digitize my home videos a few years ago :smack::depressed:

Interestingly, I've never seen any discussion of an internal I/O connection to attach to these internal headers discussed in any AIW manual. You'd think that they would be listed somewhere in one of the manuals as "available via special order from ATI" or something. Odd, very odd...

BW

-- merged --

On to the subject of PCIe AIW's:

I've never quite understood the dislike of these cards at least in terms of their technical capability to capture lossless AVI. The only complaint I've heard (and experienced with my X1800XL) is the offset of the image in the capture. For me, since I'm going to have to mask the bottom head switching noise anyway, I don't see this as a problem since I can center the image in the same process.

I know forum member keaton uses a X600 PCIe card and seems very pleased with his results.

That said there are practical issues with these cards, the biggest being finding the correct Silver Stab I/O squid/dongles. Thus the long thread about workarounds like using the brown headers I linked earlier. The other complaints are mostly about the cards running hot and/or needing auxiliary power connections or the cards being heavy (I can confirm that for my 1800). Note that AGP AIW 9700 and 9800 cards also need aux power connections and run a bit hotter than would be desired.

But for me in the peanut gallery, I think the advantages of the PCIe cards are undersold. They still require Windows XP to work for capture, but they can be used on much newer, faster (including SATA 2 or 3 HD compatibility) and I'd think more available motherboards (or complete DELL.HP, etc. systems). IF (a big one!!!) you can find an working PCIe AIW WITH the proper dongle, I think it would be worth trying.

Maybe keaton (or others using PCIe AIW's) can chime in if he finds this thread.

BW

Good heavens, ATI really liked to play with the names. So... the regular AIW 9000 has the ingest cable port on the back, while the 9000 "Pro" has the brown internal header. The 9600 XT has the brown internal header, while the 9600 "Pro" also has an ingest cable port at the back. I bet there's some reason that makes sense, but I'm still searching...

Edited to add: depending how much you paid for the card/cable set, the squid/horsetail/breakout might be worth flipping if your seller kicks and screams about taking a return. Working breakouts for these cards are beyond scarce.

I don't think it's even that simple. I think there were just a lot of different configurations. Most AGP cards came without the internal header but for some markets or resalers, apparently things were "optional". Product naming schemes are always opaque at best and just crazy at times. What's a "Pro" this year is an "SE" next! It's all just a marketing thing. :rolleyes:

I've never seen an AGP card with the header until the Sapphire one we're discussing here. I have an AIW 9000 "Pro" that does not have the header. I'll have to check to see if it has the pads to add a header. That said, per the manuals referenced, it appears that ATI made cards with them or made the option to include them more widely. Sapphire ran with it.

Yet, AFIK, the headers are ubiquitous on the PCIe cards.

BW

Noted and thank you. I have initiated a return of the card to the seller (he has been kind through this whole thing).

No I think I will let the 9600 idea go. It wasn't so much that I was married to that particular card, I was just so baffled as to why it was meant to be the All in Wonder version and didn't seem to have, to my eyes, the ability to capture. Regarding a card, I really just need to find something else that will accomplish my goal of lossless capture.

On this I may actually reach out to Sapphire about it to see if they can tell me anything (even though it's going back to the seller). Will report back if I find anything. I can't seem to find info on this model anywhere online.

I'm not sure what you mean about the offset of the image in the capture, i will hunt for some threads discussing this here. Is this not something that happens with the PCI and AGP cards?

My limitation at this stage is the machine I have. I bought a machine with AGP and PCI slots as I was under the impression that AGP was the best direction of travel for capturing. I then bought a card (see images) for this machine (my first attempt, the X800XL), where the seller told me it was AGP. It arrived with all the parts in great nick, but alas, as a PCIe, so I can't use it.

So far it sounds like, for lossless capture on this PC I bought, the AIW 9000 or AIW 9200 are the preferred AGP cards. Is this right? Are there better, more trustworthy PCI AIW cards I should try and source instead?

On the topic of the cable, I have attached an image of the bits that came with the ATI AIW X800XL PCIe card for reference (for anyone following this thread in the future).

As far as the image offset goes, yes, all of the PCIe cards offset the image portion of the capture a few pixels to the left. In most 720 x X(480-NTSC or 576-PAL) captures, there is a black border on each side, a few pixels wide. Ideally these borders should be equal, but on the PCIe cards the left is smaller, just a couple pixels while the right is that same couple pixels. If I understand correctly, a perfect capture should have 8 pixel borders on each side for 704 actual image pixels per line. What you get from each capture device will vary, and it also likely depends on your tape (how it was recorded vs. perfection) playback device, passthrough device(s) and capture device.

For reference, I've attached 2 "snapshots" from VLC of ~the same frame of the analog output of a DV camcorder video with no passthrough devices. Its interesting to note that there is no head switching noise and no border on the left. Both are 720 x 480 images (not 4:3 with square pixels) captured in Vdub using HuffYUV. One was captured via an AIW 9600 (AGP) using drivers from MMC 8.8 (no borders at all) and the other via an AIW XL 1800XL (PCIe) using drivers from MMC 9.14 (no left, wide right borders). If you look carefully, you can see that the actual image has been stretched beyond 720 pixels wide and is cropped off on the right in the AIW9600 capture. The left sides are about the same with ~ no border. I believe I have captures with the same 9600 which are not so stretched (if at all) using drivers from MMC8.7 But I don't have images from the same source so I'm not including them. So as LS says often: drivers matter.:salute:

So which is the better capture? You be the judge...

Again I refer you to keaton's comments in post #4 of the thread I linked earlier.

For AGP cards, yes, I think that 9000 and 9200 series cards are likely the least problematic today, each being relatively cool running and requiring only the purple AIW input cable. All 9600s will need the big squid cable (which yours had but most don't) plus the purple input cable. Yours seems to have been a real outlier not having the backplane input connector for the purple cable. 9700s and 9800s are more power hungry (noisier and hotter) and some MAY have an issue with poor board layout the induces noise in the image.

Lastly, I believe your X800XL is complete from what I can see. Its different than what we see over here for NTSC so our "silver stab" connectors are different with multiple outputs connections in lieu of the SCART connector. What's critical for capture that it has the purple 8 pin connector for the the purple (or domino with purple plug) cable for inputs.

BW

Hi BW37, thanks for the screengrabs –I had no idea that these little nuances existed! I have read here before that drivers matter, but it's nice to see why!

I supposed at the stage I am at, if the worst thing I have is a little border on my capture, I will be perfectly happy. To date, I haven't actually even got anything working properly, installation wise.

I took the advice given, ended up returning the Sapphire card to the seller (Sapphire support did come back to me with a link to an AMD driver, but no manual). I have since purchased an ATI AIW 9000 AGP card as suggested - This version specifically, which I hope is correct.

The card is now in my machine and since the legacy drivers were still up on AMD's site (albeit for the 9000 pro), I decided to start there. Whatever it is I did, perhaps using those drivers instead of the ones on the forum or perhaps legacy remnants that remained in the system after trying to get the sapphire card to work (despite my uninstalls), was something that Windows XP really didn't like.

At first things seemed to be going well: the drivers installed; the display had no artefacts, the resolution looked normal and everything was going great. I got to a point where all display drivers seemed to be installed and working (again, from the AMD download) but none of the other functionality e.g. ATI WDM Rage Theatre audio etc, were working. VirtualDub also wasn't recognising the source of neither the ATI AIW card nor the Terratec SixPack 5.1 soundcard, but I put that to one side.

I thought maybe I had done something wrong with the installation procedure, so retraced my steps.
Initially I hadn't installed MMC because I planned on using VDub for capturing AVIs, but then recalled the capture drivers were in the "TV" install on MMC, so first I tried to install the MMC 9.x that came from the AMD downloads page. That fixed all drivers except the ATI WDM Rage Theatre Video. So then I tried MMC 8.7 which I downloaded from this forum; after that I restarted and everything went downhill.

The machine froze on start up. I tried booting into safe mode, it froze. I couldn't do anything, really. I had to reset the BIOS by removing the battery, removed and reinstalled all RAM and cards as a precaution, then tried again. I finally got it up in safe mode, used the ATI uninstaller, and that returned me to the same place, where safe mode was struggling, the computer wouldn't boot etc.

I gave up in frustration, left it for the weekend, then last night tried again. Bizarrely, the system started up normally. I was able to uninstall all the ATI bits using the add/remove programs uninstallers. I then went into the registry and removed any and all remnants relating to ATI / Catalyst / DAO. I finally restarted, reset the BIOS settings (clock, etc), and now it feels perhaps like I am back to where I was before this journey began.

Only thing is now I feel a bit paralysed to move forward without advice. I have read so many threads in here I am no longer sure I am straight on what needs to be done and moreover that I have seen first hand how difficult it is to remove ATI related bits from the system, it feels a bit threatening!

I created a restore point before installing MMC 8.7, but couldn't seem to even get there when booting, so not sure if I should be doing that again? Is there a recommended approach to insuring I don't have do deal with all that again or is it just "if something is broke, start fresh immediately with a new installation of Windows XP"?

Can anyone advise on the correct procedure and installation elements for the ATI AIW Radeon 9000 64? I have seen and download many of the files in the sticky threads here, but am unsure which if any is what I should be using.

As always, I am very appreciative, thank you all for the help.

If it were me - and I'm not saying I have the right answer - but if it were me and I had tried to install one ATI card and gave up in favor of another, I would immediately wipe the system drive and reinstall the OS from scratch. Might seem a bit rash, but the ATI drivers/software were a bit notorious for leaving little bits and pieces behind, even after uninstall tools. The machine I use now does capture and nothing else, so starting 100% over isn't terribly burdensome.

Again - I'm not saying its the best way, but it might be a path of least resistance if your system drive doesn't have too much other stuff that you would need to reinstall.

For installers, your mileage may vary, but I keep this one handy to keep my 9000s alive: https://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/vid...html#post14940

I don't remember all the details, but I think later installers started to create problems. Stick with the recommendations in the above thread.

Don't forget DirectX!

@rickface: 7jlong is not wrong, starting from a "clean install" is always best if you can manage it. ATI drivers and "puff" can get pretty snarled up in the system files and registry and getting them all out is difficult. That said there are come old ATI cleaners that might work at least to try before a clean install.

I've done a little digging into my previous AIW experimentation which was interrupted about 4 years ago for a move. Still trying to settle in. :smack: One thing I did was to use my old Acronis backup software to create full backups of my various attempts. Most important was to create a good backup of a working "base" install to work from whenever things blew up (or just to try a new set of drivers without worrying about cleaning out the old ones. I've looked over the notes I made to help identify those backups. Most of my testing was with either an AIW 9600 or an AIW 9700 Pro, but I think the same things will apply for you.

First, the drivers installed automatically Windows XP Pro with SP2 seemed to work just fine. In fact as best I could tell these were the same drivers recommended above by 7jlong (and others). So in spite of sanlyn's recommendations, I would try things by letting Windows install its preferred drivers.

The ATI drivers as installed automatically by my WinXP Pro SP2:
Display Driver: 6.14.10.6462
WDM Driver: 6.14.10.6238

Windows will not install any "Catalyst" components, just the basic drivers. If you want to install those or MMC 8.8, you will need to do so from the 180-V01084-100 iso you can reassemble from the rar's.

At minimum, you will also need to install DirectX 9. The last version was 9C. The version included with the above iso is 9A and is probably fine.

I believe that with just the above, you should be able to run and capture with vDub. the order I would try installing things would be:
1. Display driver only (abort automatic install of WDM driver)
2. DirectX 9A (Start the ATI catalyst set-up and install only DX9A?)
3. Reboot
4. WDM driver (should install automatically if you let Windows do it.

Alternatively, you could abort all automatic Windows drivers installations and let the catalyst installer install what YOU want it to. Start with only the above and see if you can get vDub to work. If the catalyst installer wants to install a .NET version, let it do so. (See below)

Note: I also found that I'd installed .NET 2.0 as downloaded from MS. To install it you need to first install an "installer" from MS. These might be needed for MMC 8.8 or something, I'm not quite sure. You could try things without this first to see.

Hope this works for you! :D
BW

PS: I have installation files for all of the above, DX 9C, NET 2.0, etc. but I cannot upload/attach them here because they are all .exe files. I also found that you can no longer download DirectX 9C from MS. I'm not sure about the others. If someone has a suggestion as to how these could be made available her, let me know.

Yes, I noticed as I went through deleting any and all keys I could find. I would have just skipped straight to a fresh install of XP (I have the disc), but as you mention below, it was because I had to find and install all the other bits (XP SP2 distributable 2005 and 2010 updates, Net2, DirectX9c) to get XP functioning and installing in the modern world. Took me at least a day and I didn't do well organising the downloaded installers after. Next time I will!

Will try this now! Thanks for the link!

This sounds very wise. I thought that was what I did with the snapshot I created in Windows before installing MMC 8.7, but that didn't work when the system blew up. Is it this one you used? Would you just create and burn an ISO or? (Sorry, I am barely Windows literate). Is this the Acronis software you used?


Just to clarify, these would be the drivers that Windows installs when you start up the system and it detect new hardware, is that right? And just to ensure I am not making bad assumptions, the Display drivers are (obvs) for the monitor and the WDM are for capturing? If that is correct, then I wanted to ask, in relation to the driver conversation we had earlier (drivers from MMC 8.8 vs 9.14), where do these fit into the mix? Is that what you meant about restoring to a point with the backup software before installing the drivers so you could use different ones, or is it possible to have multiple drivers on the system and choose which to use for capture?

Downloaded and assembled :salute:

Sorry for all my questions –*re: the above*–
1. This is the windows version of the display driver it attempts to install on startup, right?
2. I installed DirectX 9C for use with another catalyst, so I should be good there
3. √
4. And this will be one that will be the deal for capture?

Same! I think this was amongst the first things I had to do in order to get the MyPal browser working on the system so I could visit websites. IE didnt work.

Thanks a million for the help. I will report back :thumb:


I am sure this would be really useful, it took me a while to find versions of these. Microsoft has taken most off their site now. Maybe a new sticky post –*"Setting up your XP box"

At an event now. Will reply later.:)

Cheers :beer:

Update on the ATI spring-clean – sadly, that ATI cleaner linked is only for Windows 7+, so didn't work for my old XP box.

I think I did what I could with the fragments / registry already, though, hopefully I discarded anything that will conflict. I will await your advice before attempting the next driver installation, knowing that if I fail, i reckon it's going to be back to square one with a fresh XP instal!