Recording, encoding processes for demanding client?
 

Hello DigitalFAQ.

A few months back, I made this thread about capturing 24-bit audio in VDub (which I figured I could just record in 24-bit in parralel): https://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/vid...ng-24-bit.html

But, now, my problem focuses onto something else: interlacing, PAR, Adobe Premiere and client's demanding preservation format.

Now, the client has finally sent us their tapes to be digitized. Their "preservation" standard is extremely demanding to the point of "WHY": AVI v210 10-bit 4:2:2 interlaced.

They even go out of their way to say "ProRes and MXF/JPG2000 not selected because they are more production industry standards."

Premiere supports interlacing. This is not the issue. The issue is that, with Premiere, with Huffyuv, it will randomly insert garbage frames. If you look at the footage with, say, PotPlayer or VLC, it plays back with no such frames. ON TOP OF THAT, it takes an ETERNITY to add the files to a project, especially if the footage is very long. Not to mention scrolling and editing... since I have to sync the new 24-bit audio to replace the vdub 16-bit ones.

As I was writing this, I checked the option to force RGB in huffyuv and tested with our 13min long test tape. Premiere gobbled it up and didn't show any garbage. PotPlayer shows it was interlaced (PotPlayer uses the "Tree" setting of MediaInfo). However, Premiere sees the footage as Progressive. Fine. I'll make it interpret it as interlaced UFF and correcting the PAR to 0.9091 to make 4:3 instead of 3:2.

Then, I setup the encoding like they want (see screenshot 1 and 2).

But then... opening the resulting file... it's still 3:2 despite setting 0.9091. The combing effect becomes much more pronounced versus huffyuv (screenshot 3 = huffyuv, screenshot 4 = client settings)

So now... I need help figuring out how the ... am I going to make this v210 file while making it look as good as the initial huffyuv while being able to come in and replace the 16-bit audio file for the 24-bit one recorded in Audition while the tape is recording. I'm open to all software as long as it has a GUI. They need a stupidly high bitrate de-interlaced MP4 video with it (for "access") which proper de-interlacing help would be great help. Please note that this client will not be changing their mind."

Capture Card: ATI TV Wonder 600.
Computer: Windows 7 HP x64, Core i7 950, 12GB DDR3 RAM, GeForce GTX 680, SATA OS drive (90GB SSD), writing to USB SSD through USB 3.

Please note that I may not be answering on weekends as I see my postings here part of my job and figuring things out.

Thank you.

As soon as I read the title, my first thought was "fire the client". :laugh:
I've not yet read the thread.

Replying as I read...

- Interlacing is not really a choice. It's either interlaced, or deinterlaced/progressive. Deinterlacing is either QTGMC or worse, with some processing options and constraints.
- PAR is PAR.
- Premiere will be Premiere.
- "client's demanding preservation format" usually means he/she knows nothing, and blindly trusts Google/ChatGPT or other random non-sources

The more I read, the more "fire the client" vibes.

Premiere itself doesn't insert garbage frames. It's relying on the codec install. Are you using the actual Huffyuv? Not the fake/messy FFMPEG version, not MT, not 64-bit, not CCE hacked, etc. The original Huffyuv by Ben R-G. (Lagarith is the codec known for random bad frames, not Huffyuv. Odd.)

There's always alternatives.

If I were using a PITA NLE (Premiere or otherwise), I'd just extract everything to uncompressed. Compared to the 2000s, even the 2010s, we're living in an era of infinite CPU and drive space, in the context of SD video processing.

V210 is going to be a problem. From a quick Google search, even LoC doesn't use it (or want it).

When I have somebody approach me for work, asking for something wrong/weird/stupid, I ask where they got that information, because their request is "odd and non-standard". In 99% of those cases, it's Google/ChatGPT/randos. I tell them what is available, and ask what they want. Most proceed. Some stubbornly stick to the request -- and also always argue it, as if they can make me do what they want. I have no time for their BS. I wish them well, end the conversation, delete, move on.

These people will continue to seek their Moby Dick, until they find a service willing to do it. It never ends well. Many of them crawl back to those who denied the initial requests, wanting to get it re-done as was suggested from the beginning. They caught Moby Dick (or the car bumper), and had no idea what to do with it, and were surprised it didn't look (taste) as expected.

Unless you're getting like $10K+ from this project, fire him. (Honestly, even $10K may be low.) Writing "this client will not be changing their mind" is just wishful thinking. I'd bet money on it. It gets easier to 'fire clients" the more you do it. You start to learn to spot them before even accepting projects, and just decline their work altogether. They can be somebody else's problem and stresser.

What gets me here is that, while the ATI 600 USB is an excellent card, it's not the "end all, be all" of ultimate quality. It captures legalized, and the values are imperfect. It's no AIW, nor a broadcast appliance. Some of the demands made here exceed what the card did, so it's just insane.

Going as I go as well...

* I know interlaced is not really a choice. They want to keep the interlacing for an interlaced format which is understandable.

* PAR is PAR... well. You know... I need to set the correct one in post-processing. A VHS is 4:3, not 3:2.

* I swore I took a screenshot somewhere of that glitched from when I used the same setup to record some Umatics for a MUCH less demanding client. It turns all green. You see the objects and all but like ugh. If it happens again, I'll take a screenshot and show you.

* Yes, I know I installed that Huffyuv from you. Upon checking the checksums, it seems I have installed the 64-bit version on my current Windows 11 machine (R9 5900X, 32GB DDR4, Quadro RTX A4000). I do not remember what made me install that one instead of the old 32-bit non multithreaded one. I know Premiere works with them like this.

* In the documentation that was given to us for video digitalization, the last modification date is "June 17, 2021" and that's written in text in the MSWord file and not the file's "creation date". So, before ChatGPT really became a thing and I imagine that this was decided way before then.

* What NLE would you choose if you were stuck in my shoes?

* I'm very aware that no other preservation bodies even consider V210. It's either .mov (codec used is not even mentionned. Could be ProRes, H264, H265... who knows?) or MXF.

* This client is a lifeline for my salary. Their entire library must be already in those formats (and probably fake 24-bit audio, upscale from a 4:2:0 video and they probably don't realize). Also, I'm not the one that seeks jobs. I'm just the guy that gets told to digitalize and what settings to use if the client has particuliar ones.

Yup. I realized that as well. The card does 4:2:2 (YUY2) but at 8-bit and most videos on the internet today are just that... 8-bit 4:2:0.

Digitize as YUY2 AVI 8 bit (maximum quality possible in my opinion for VHS) and then convert to whatever in Adobe :)
10bit for VHS? Very demanding client! Did he ask to capture VHS at 4K too? ;)
Only, after importing that in Premiere, do not forget to set "interpret footage" field order "upper field first" for PAL and "lower field first" for NTSC for imported YUY2, because otherwise Premiere will interpret it as progressive, because no field marks in this format.

It depends. If captured standard Full D1 720x480, then it has 16 extra pixels that needs to be cropped before 4x3 resize/processing. Some cards allow 704x480, but then it may not crop right either. Resizing can be messy if done wrong. That matters far more than bit depths and codecs.

"all green" is an internal error, generally inside the NLE in this scenario.

It's not really a "64-bit version", but an entirely different FourCC codec. It's Huffyuv in name only. In order to make the actual Huffyuv install the 32-bit/x86 for 64-bit/x64 usage, the "easy button" is to use the hofmand installer.

I wasn't really focusing on ChatGPT itself, but really just random "research" (term used loosely) using Google/whatever. The person didn't know (and still don't know what they don't know), and just blindly trusts random information as good and accurate. That takes a certain type of personality.

What I've often had to do is:
- capture Huffyuv, retain as master ingest files
- VirtualDub2 convert to the unofficial ProRes422
- transfer those files to Mac, edit in Final Cut

Sometimes that's the path of least resistance. And my own M2 Pro is more powerful at editing than my Windows systems (where I no longer have Adobe subs, only final pre-sub CS6 versions).

- I hate MXF, but it is a standard, just not a very good one. Both it and DNxHD files are obnoxious.
- It's really 50/50 on ".mov" being uncompressed or ProRes -- but not sure which ProRes. And it does leave open the door for compressed, including the awful Apple version of H.264.

Hmmm....
I need to know more.
Are you doing the Premiere work, then exporting? So they'll never see the Premiere step?
So you're ingesting Huffyuv, moving to Premiere (editing?), exporting to crazy specs?
So they never get the Huffyuv, only the final Premiere export files?

I think this can be done by "adding" a step, but ultimately saving you time and grief. :devil:

VHS source is not even 8-bit, more like 6-bit dithered.

Think of VHS as a cake, 6-bit.
Capturing to 8-bit adds 33% icing to the cake.
10-bit adds 25% more.
12-bit adds 20% more ... and the "cake" is now literally half icing.
That cake sucks. :laugh:

I think we should converted to whatever for Adobe. Then export to whatever as output.

That's not correct. Only DV is BFF ("lower", bottom), everything else is TFF (top, "upper")

Sorry, my mistake, yes upper for both of course.

SHGMC_2, I do such capture.
So, send me this customer. Well, mostly his money.[:D]

I think they'd be hard pressed "not to be ok" with ProRes422HQ which does preserve interlacing. It is generally visually lossless and is 10 bit, unless you are running through an equipment bottleneck such as an 8 bit TBC or other ADC that is less than 10 bit.

4:2:2 does have an advantage in the raw capture state as long as you upscale prior to making it the 4:2:0 delivery format. 4:2:0 basically means you don't have any color information recorded for every other horizontal line. If you were to say upscale 480p/4:2:2 to 960P (or greater)/4:2:0, you haven't actually lost any color information from the original because the horizontal lines are doubled before then getting rid of the color information on every other horizontal line.

If it was me, I'd start with a ProRes422HQ capture, crop, and upscale to 1440x1080 progressive 59.94fps (essentially a bob QTGMC deinterlace) at 15000Kb/s. If the client wants the raw capture, they're going to find ProRes to be much more generally compatible with all nonlinear editors and operating systems. With the upscale, you don't have to worry about pixel aspect ratio anymore either since it'll be square after that. There's also a way to just use FFMPEG to set the PAR flag without a re-encode, but for that to be helpful the player or editor would then need to pay attention to that flag (which not all of them do).

That's not possible here.

Why? That's not the job specs.

I guess in the end you could convert from ProRes422HQ to whatever format they want since it is visually lossless, 10 bit, and interlaced. Could ten set the DAR to 4:3 using FFMPEG assuming that format they want is supported by FFMPEG as a final step.

If there's an issue as to what the characteristics of this "V210" thing is, I'd have them send you a short clip of something they already have that does meet their requirements so you can figure out what the codec and other specifics are using mediainfo.

Back from weekend!

(going as I read)

* I see. I mean, In Adobe, you can make a 704x480 canvas and have the video aligned in the middle or either side depending after having the footage interepreted as 4:3.

* I figured as much because even converting straight from Media Encoder would render garbage "green" frames. Now, using the "RGB" mode in huffyuv, it just insert a previous frame. Meh.

* This one: https://github.com/hofmand/video-codec-installers ? If yes, do I need to install the previous one before? If yes, how do I do so? Did you explain somewhere?

* Yeah, well, I certainly didn't decide and my superiors definitely won't try to argue with them. :\

* Interesting. Might keep ProRes in mind for being compatible with interlacing. I'll try to keep a lossless chain for this client... even if it does not make sense. If there's a huge issue, I'll talk with my boss about it to see if I could take shortcuts or something.

* Awful Apple H264? I dunno but Premiere, I'm using Voukoder which allows me to use NVENC H264 with .mov. Are you talking about Apple's x264 being awful? Because I definitely don't have trouble believing you in this case.

Pretty much, yes. They don't see the original capture file. I replace the original recorded audio with the 24-bit audio I recorded in parralel. Crop the beginning and the end. Then export. That's the plan for them anyway.

For other clients, I'd be using the AIW setup we have. Get the MPG file, put that in premiere, Right-click clip -> Fields Processing -> Always Deinterlace, Raise the volume a bit. Depending on the job, I might crop the overscan and empty sides then center the remaining picture (keeping a standard resolution). Then, export to MOV NVENC H264 / PCM (VBR Bitrate - min. 2200kbps, max 3250). For 99.9% of people, that's PLENTY. Most will be happy with having a picture at all.

But not this client...

* Pfffff. 6-bit. Yeah, I agree. VHS were always bad quality to me. Seeing 6-bit does not surprise me.

* Convert for Adobe... yeah, definitely. It has caused me so much headaches.

Upscaling with the ATI TV Wonder 600? lolno

I believe they have no idea what is 24bit audio and what for.

No one can hear difference between 16bit and 24bit, but I attached Swiss Sound from 1994 where 24bit is explained. Yes, I always digitize analog audio at 24bit (32bit float) and 48khz (broadcast wave standard). If someone want 192khz - OK, no problems, we can! This is why dogs lick their balls - because they CAN! ;)

Better convert sample type from 16 bit to 24. You can go out of sync with your method.

P.S. I mean no one can hear difference between 16bit and 24bit in final release. But 24bit is very important as initial format. If you will not edit audio track, it is really do not matter, just convert and forget.

P.P.S. However keep in mind your client can always ask to explain your recording technology, so in this case you should have something to show how you do it (quality do not matter, because they know nothing). I would avoid such clients, because I avoid lying. I would say - my technology is following and "take it or leave it".

1. Yeah that's the right github page for the modern method of installing huffyuv, just uninstall the previous huffyuv codec and follow the instructions listed on the github page.

2. Think Aramkolt means upscaling after you're done capturing your raw file, ie using a program like Selur's Hybrid to do upscaling, deinterlacing (plus any other restoration using avisynth/vapoursynth) and encoding all in one program.

I know why they want 24-bit audio. They want better resolution fidelity of the analog audio being converted from a pure waveform to a digital "stairs waveform" - you know more steps = more details. It's not a matter if you can hear the difference or not. However, the quality of the analog audio on the VHS tape is what determines, for me, that VHS is only really worth 16-bit.

As for the desync... I think it's only the case for the first 2-3 seconds and after that, it's pretty much sync'ed. Checked the waveforms of both files through the 1h video file and, besides the beginning, it keeps lining up. If I had seen that it wasn't sync'ed throughout the file, I wouldn't have used the parralel recorded audio file. Please note that VDub takes the audio from the same audio source that the separate audio feed takes its audio from. Which is not the capture card itself because 1. Capture Card has no volume input control and 2. Capture Card isn't seen in audio software as an input. A dedicated sound card is used.

Like I said in the original thread, I'm not one to half-_ss and do fake encodes. I don't want to fake a 24-bit audio file.

I can't "uninstall" it as I used the registerdll method via command-line LS mentionned here: https://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/vid...l-huffyuv.html I wouldn't know how to revert that tbh.

I tried Hybrid in the past and I found it to be a clusterf**k to use. Settings wouldn't work 3 out of 4 times even if most settings were left on defaults. And, now, even after re-install, the program refused to launch. So, I uninstalled it.

Also, I'm allergic to CLI. I had to ask """""""""""AI"""""""""""" to make me FFMPEG command lines. So, Avisynth is out the window (I couldn't tell but is Vapoursynth a GUI version of Avisynth?). And, really, they do ask for an "access" MP4 file (16 mbit bitrate for 480 lines video...) which the deinterlacing in premiere did the job. They didn't even mention what audio they wanted for that. So, I just threw AAC 320kbps in there.

Really, my big issue is to get the right encoding out of Premiere because, even if it's all set to NTSC 0.9091 pixel ratio, UFF (including the clips themselves), the resulting AVI file is still read as 3:2 by Pot Player despite me going out of my way to make sure all settings are correct for the final output. Uugh... I hate these settings so much... never had such issues before because all other clients we ever got for VHS never really asked anything in that matter. Ugh. And the interlacing look even worse after being exported with premiere in the v210 file.

I know it's a bit late, but I thought of a workflow that could give you 24-bit sync'd with your capture. Some ATI AIW cards send their audio out through the sound card, and you could use something like a Tascam US-122L or US-144 in XP to capture in 24 bit.

As someone who has worked in video/audio and had to sync 3+ hour long audio recordings with multiple cameras, I've come to deeply dislike anything that isn't timecoded. So if you can build an XP rig in a day and it's a big client, it might be worth considering. Sometimes you think it's in sync but it's really off by some ms that you don't quite perceive right away. It's so mind screwy sometimes I would rather just avoid it if at all possible.

More details for what? :) Read that 1994 Swiss Sound, there are described benefits of 24bit in digital mastering process. Before conversion to final 16bit for CD mastering, for example. Yes, now 24 bit is not a problem, so 24bit is everywhere. There is nothing wrong with 24bit, I digitize even 78rpm from 30s in 24bit, my Universal Audio 2192 ADC's support only 24 bit, but - you (and your client) should not bother about 16bit. Ask him, it is 16bit 100db SNR what bother him and why he needs 140db? From VHS :laugh:

I guess you can go ahead and try the installer anyway, might override those files. Hope it'll work

Manually search for "huffyuv.dll" on the system, and delete those. These files are in Windows system folders, so the OS "security" may fight you some.

Once done, use the hofmand installer.

Or get Blackmagic intensity (all them support 24bit) to explain to client how you do it, but at the same time, quietly... ;)

I can send you one Intensity shuttle. Nightmare, but supports 24 bit (if I remember right). You could show that to your client (and demonstrate, it is working with terrible audio delay, but for demonstration purposes does not matter). After your project you could send it back to me or throw out, no matter. Shipping cost on your account ;)

This method is too much manipulation. It doesn't crop 8, then resize pixels to 4x3. The Premiere way resize pixels, then stretches pixels on crop. This is why pre-NLE work is best done in VirtualDub or Avisynth+VirtualDub. Are you actually "editing" the captures, or just "scissors snipping" the ends of the capture? If snipping, Premiere is 100% the wrong tool here.

RGB is making matters worse, don't do that. However, Premiere is not native YUV, colorspace conversion is already happening in the background.

I'm my own superior, and sometimes I argue with myself. :laugh:

Apple's Quicktime H.264 is awful, notoriously so. (BTW, x264 is not H.264. Not interchangeable terms. H.264 is licensed, x264 is unofficial unlicensed. --- And you may need to be careful with your client. Or rather, your client needs to be careful. MPEG-LA licensing should be reviewed by you and them.

Are you visually aligning external audio with Premiere? Is that the only reason for Premiere? We may nede to massage your software workflow. On the surface, your method may be "easier", but another "more complex" method may actually be long-run easier. (Been there, done that. I go for path of least resistance, even if a few extra steps.)

Your superiors aren't do the work. You are. You still need a blunt conversation with them after this project is done, and "no more" needs to be the outcome. You've been screwing around with this for months, because the requests doesn't match the source. It's non-standard, to the extreme that other large orgs do not use it (on purpose). I've worked at large orgs. I've never been afraid to say "no". I don't live life in fear. If anything, that's landed more respect and pay raises.

Alright. Will do that.

Look, in the preservation world, audio for most analog audio formats is 24-bit. If you seek preservation bodies' requirements for audio format digitalization, it's 24-bit. I don't decide that. Generally, for analog video, it's opposite. Audio is supposed to be 16-bit but they want specifically 24-bit...

I don't know if you are joking or not but... we're not building something specifically for that. There must be something that can be done with what we have.

We DO have some AIW systems on XP. I can and use those but they are super janky volume wise.

Alright... deactivated the "Always suggest RGB format for output" in the Huffyuv config in compression.

I was using "H264" as some kind of catch-all. I know x264 is a thing.

Yes, that's what I'm doing. But I also do raise the volume as it tends to be quite quiet most of the time and I love seeing the waveforms to do that kind of work (and also "zero" what's supposed to be silent, etc.). In other words, some kind of "mastering" process.

Not months... We *just* got the tapes to digitize them. It took quite a lot of time to get here though. My previous thread was to see my options when it came to that issue.

Before posting this, I've messaged my boss and asked to come around when he has the time.

The org had a second option in their docs: ffv1. It's noted to be "Acceptable" and "v210" to be preferred. They explained as such because "we'd need to transcode it to make it work with our systems." (paraphrased)

At least ffv1 is an export option in vdub2. But I'm not banking on it, tbh. It will depend on what my boss will say about the subject when I'll be able to talk to him.

I'm open to your longer way to do things - especially if it can help me make better quality outputs - even in lossy H264.

FFV1 will make this process much easier for you.

Before I proceed with any workflow suggestions, let's see where the FFV1 option lands. If it's a go, we can make this far more painless for you, possibly even skipping Premiere entirely.

BTW, this is normally far more detail than I'll do in a thread, but I'll do it for you (and your org). :)

What I had in mind, was to open the audio recorded in the AVI file in Audition alongside the one recorded in 24-bit in parralel. Make sure they have roughly the same amount of silence at the beginning (based on the AVI file ofc). The end does not really matter because it's just noise that's meant to be silent. Then, in VDub, I saw the option "Audio from other file" in the "Audio" menu on top. Use that to load the edited 24-bit PCM file. Crop the beginning and the end. Save as FFV1 or huffyuv.

Done for their "Preservation" file. They can deal with the v210 transcode and see if I care.

After, use VDub to add a Deinterlaced filter. Once done, export as x264 16mbitCBR 320kbps AAC MP4 file. (also, for some reason, x264 in vdub2 is broken so that will need to be fixed).

My boss will come by tomorrow afternoon. I will confirm with him what to do and/or if it's OK to fo the ffv1 route.

Let's swap to Hybrid for QTGMC deinterlace + x264 encoding. Far easier, and much better quality. So win-win.

What is the version of your vdub2?
Also, why Deinterlaced filter? Haven't your client asked for interlaced?

Soooooo... about the parralel audio recording... the previous user that said that it wouldn't work was right. The 24-bit audio file has a slight .25sec delay on the audio versus the audio in the video file. I would imagine that this kinda varies throughout.

But yeah. That's a robot effect when overlayed. That'a a no-go.

Will check that out!

v1.9.11 for SD capture
v2 build 44331 for HD cpature and other things.

They asked for two versions. One for "preservation" that preserves interlacing and one for "access" that is a deinterlaced MP4.

I see.
Still, what version of vdub2 do you use?

I edited my post above but in case you didn't see it...

v1.9.11 for SD recording
v2 build 44331 for HD recordings and other AVI conversions. (Had issues with recording where the preview would get slower and slower until it only displays less than 1 frame a second. Resulting file is correct though).

Current work PC specs, if you missed them earlier:
Ryzen 9 5900X
32GB DDR4 RAM 3600mhz CL18
Dell Quadro RTX A4000 8GB
1TB OS SSD, 2TB other SSD + 18TB HDD

Your vdub2 is outdated. That's why you have issue with x264.
You need v2.3.0.845 from 2025.
You'll get there x264 for 8 and 10 bits, lossless, SAR, interlaced video explicit flag and compression optimization.

Thanks. Updated.

Will still need some instructions with QTGMC that LS mentionned. What version of Avi/Vapoursynth should I use (if possible, I'd like a portable install)? What command-line is the best for some catch-all scenario for tapes? That kinda thing. When I said I'm allergic to CLI, it's not because I don't know how to pass a command, it's just that I just cannot figure out on my own what would the command to use and, mixed with bad memories, it makes me dread anything without a GUI.

As for the 24-bit audio, I think I have an idea that I'll need to talk with my boss this afternoon. I don't know how well it's going to work out but... yeah.

VirtualDub2's VFW implementation of x264 is outdated, no matter how "updated" the software is. It's like trying to cram an EV engine into a 1995 Mazda (or whatever). Yes, people have done these silly conversions, but it's not at all the same as a ground-up software for modern encoding.

VirtualDub(2) has it's place. This isn't it.

Hybrid has built-in Avisynth (and Vapoursynth), and learning raw Avisynth is not needed at this time.

That 24-bit audio mess will probably never work. Software to ingest SD video was max'd out at 16-bit for a reason. HD allowed more (or even expected more?), but then the SD was given the step-child treatment, not built for that SD task. I would just "upscale" it from 16 to 24, and go on with my day.

Odds of anybody being smart enough to spot it are zero, given how they're not smart enough to give a legitimate ingest request. You're dealing with low-knowledge people, who "think" they know more than they do (because they read some BS from some unknown somewhere). Zero knowledge unto themselves, zero experience at any of this. If you or your boss tries to explain this to them, it will fall of deaf ears. Honesty will not be rewarded.

100% agreed.

My idea was to add transparent (VERY quiet noise) 24-bit white noise that they won't ever know it's there. So that if they ever decide to check for legitimacy, they'll see a real 24-bit audio but that's just because some very low sound white noise I added. I tried it out and it works wonders.

How?
- Extracted audio with VDub
- Open in 16-bit WAV Adobe Audition
- Create a first new empty 32-bit float file
- Create white noise of needed length that 32-bit float file
- Create another new empty 32-bit float
- Copy & pasted entirety of audio from AVI (which upscales)
- Finally, copy & mix-paste very quiet noise within the original audio
- Save file as 24-bit PCM

You can check by opening any DAW that supports VSTs. Install "Bitter" VST by Schwa. By experience, 99.9999999999999999% will never know how to check for that and, if in the small chance they actually do, it'll be a disguised 16-bit file from the white noise. haha Then just use that file in VDub and make final ffv1 encode. That's the plan I'm going to present to my boss, whenever he happens to be able to pass by.

I'm going to give Hybrid another chance but I'm not having high hopes as, last time, it wouldn't even open.

What you are talking about? What 24bit noise? Are you kidding?
Simplest way is to use Adobe Premiere together with Adobe Audition. Premiere has option "edit in Adobe audition" so you can edit Audio file in Audition, convert sample type, normalize etc, save, close Audition and go back to Premiere. Then export.

Read that Studer article I attached above or at least Wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_bit_depth

That's a brilliant idea. Do that. :congrats:

Those "extra steps" realistically should not take much extra time. Just some clicks.

Make sure whatever extra noise is added is below the VHS audio noise floor, which I'm sure it is. But it'll be 24-bit range for saving. (Realistically, that's all 24-bit would have been here anyway: richer noise.)

I'll walk you through Hybrid, if needed. Just let me know where you run into a roadblock. You want to return QTGMC deinterlaced to the client, not lousy ancient VirtualDub deinterlacers. Deinterlacing is one are where I'm pretty unforgiving, because non-QTGMC has such a steep quality drop-off in almost all cases.

No.
That workflow would be a nightmare here, and would not accomplish what's needed anyway.

However there is simpler solution. At export Adobe Premiere offer to set any sample frequency and bitrate. So if original audio track is 16bit, set to 24 and export, keeping all other (video) setting the same.

Anyway there is nothing related to noise. No one will be able to tell particular audio track was 16bit before :)

There is simple test to be sure - after export, in Premiere open "get properties from file" and look what you can see.

P.S. And there is possible to set even video to 10bit at export with appropriate codec. How that stupid mess with format affect video quality I have no idea (with audio all will be OK) but it is simplest way to get required format :)

If 16-bit is simply converted to 24-bit, it won't pass "is this real 24-bit audio" tests. But adding near-silent noise that is beyond 16-bit will fool the tests.

This isn't about quality anymore, it's entirely about stupid tests. The max possible quality was extract from the VHS tape, which is arguably not even 16-bit @ 48kHz (which is what the ingest/capture is). He already has all the quality.

The entire situation is because he's dealing with low-knowledge goobers. They read random specs online, and want those used for no qualified or quantified reason. Those are not specs for consumer analog SD formats (VHS, etc).

This is his out, and I think it's quite clever. Assuming it works as planned, and I think it will. :)

He does the best job that is possible, and they get their dumb files. Win-win.

In my opinion, in this case he do not want to worry about it.
What the heck is "is this real 24-bit audio" test? :)
There is one trick with sample frequency - if you record at 44.1hz and then upsample to 48khz original noise cuts at about 20khz, not about 24khz so you can tell something is wrong - probably something is filter between or it is upsampled. But with 24 bit - it is not related to noise so you can not tell it is fake. :)

So background noise difference is true with sample frequency not bit depth.

-- merged --

P.S. However, if he bother someone, by using special test programs, will recognize those added 8 bits... Then he will recognize them even if there will be mix with true 24bit :)

Cheating should be simple. Complex cheating almost always fails, as Remarque said :)

I do not know how Premiere converts 16bit to 24bit, but Audition not simply add 8 zeros, it dithers file. So it would be nearly impossible to tell it was 16bit before. But there is only one way - to try and check result.

First, check the VST I'm talking about. "Bitter" by Schwa: https://www.kvraudio.com/product/bitter_by_schwa

Yes, Audition simply adds 8 zeros. Dithering only happens when you are changing the samplerate (aka the Hz). I'm only asked to dither (or not), in multitracks, when sample rates mismatch. When they do, software asks me dithering questions before upsampling up or down (and makes a copy).

That being said, doing what I describe will show 24 bars pop out and all near all equal in length if you are using the VST I linked above. If you pop in a fake 24-bit file with 8 padded bits, the VST will show 16 bars even if the file is 24-bit. You can try it with any DAW that supports VST.

It's all to fool those that knows how to check that.

Going to be honnest, it felt good to see my idea approved by you! My boss also agreed with the strategy. So, we all good on that.

Going over Hybrid would be great. I noticed that there is a "Defaults" option and I suppose that I could technically use that to plug in your settings as default as I only intend to de-interlace using Hybrid when the client is extremely picky. Which only happened once and it's this very client.

I imagine that you are starting from a huffyuv AVI file. I'll have that ready tomorrow.
I'd also know if there's a good way to force an "interlaced" flag on that ffv1 AVI file just for, you know, pass "the test".

Thanks a lot in advance.

24 bit denotes the size of the container. But the container is not the contents. Putting contents the size of a matchbox into a shoebox won't make the contents worse but won't make it any better either. A little knowledge can be dangerous. We can add very quiet "24 bit noise" but it will be overwhelmed (masked) by louder system noise upstream.

The bit length is only a potentiality. The signal chain is only as good as its weakest link, in this case the least noisy link. As with good picture, good audio starts at the very beginning of the production chain and at every step along that chain. The delivery format is only one link at the end of that chain. That is what is so often not understood by people who don't know any better. Usually they're just consumers of other people's work.

Just for interest, VHS can have two soundtracks, one about 9 bit, the other about 14 bit, and that's best case.

Hmm.... Something new to me because I never did such foolish thing as to convert lover bitrate to higher, only vice versa (24 bit is better for editing but final can be 16bit without problems, however today, because CD mastering is in past, this conversion is not actual any more).

But it should not be true Audition simply add 8 zeros. It is brutal conversion. Did you tried to convert bitrate in edit view under "convert sample type"?

-- merged --

Try following (at least under Audition 3.0 what is still the best for me):

In edit view under Convert sample type convert 16bit audio file to 32bit (float).
Then under "save as" click options and choose 24bit packed int (type 1 24bit).
Enable dithering.

Save. Test with your plugin what it say :)