Best ATI All In Wonder card alternatives, to transfer tapes to digital?
 

This has been discussed before on the forum, but I'll run down the short list again... :cool:


Best ATI All In Wonder Card Alternatives

If you're forced to use newer OS (Windows Vista/7/8/10), and newer hardware (no AGP slot), then you'll want to look at these alternatives. Choose from either $100-range consumer capture cards (ATI, Hauppauge, Canopus), or $500-range professional capture cards (Aja, Matrox). At minimum, each works flawlessly in VirtualDub, as well as their own specialized capture software.

Suggested professional capture cards: (analog to digital + other advanced video features!)

• Aja Kona LHi/LHe/LSe 10-bit HD + analog PCIe capture cards ~$500-1000+ (not VirtualDub compatible)
  
• Matrox MX02 HD + analog PCIe capture card (Can also be used with Mac!) ~$450+

Suggested consumer capture cards: (analog to digital)

• ATI TV Wonder HD 600 USB2 capture stick ~$100
• Hauppauge 610 USB2 capture stick (aka 01341 USB Live-) ~$75

Passable quality choice, for PAL (not NTSC), or Mac OS X users: (analog to digital)

• Canopus ADVC-50/55 DV capture box (Can also be used with Mac!) ~$175+
• Canopus ADVC-100/110 DV capture box (Can also be used with Mac!) ~$250+

Important Notes!

• ATI capture cards may also be sold by the following private label brands: VisionTek, Diamond, AMD.
• ATI 600/650 series bare hardware photos only shows coaxial inputs, but the photos are misleading. A complete ATI capture card kit includes additional wiring that allows for s-video and composite input. (And no, it's not fed through the coax.) These cards are from the PVR generation, so most of the marketing text relates to recording TV, TV tuners, timeshifting, etc. Simply disregard and ignore.
• For the ATI 600/650 series capture cards, you'll want to capture NTSC MPEG-2 with ATI Catalyst Media Center (ATI CMC, download here), and then capture NTSC or PAL AVI with VirtualDub. Unfortunately, there is no way to capture PAL MPEG-2 with this setup. It was created for Japanese and North American markets, not European markets.
• The Matrox MX02 comes as either internal or external, for connecting to PCI express or ExpressCard.
• Canopus ADVC series DV converters have been listed as an alternative card that will function in Windows Vista and Windows 7, but it is the least suggested card on this entire page. Canopus boxes are DV only, and tend to "cook" the color quality of your videos (saturation and contrast are both increased). The ADVC-300's so-called "TBC" does nothing observable, and the video filters do little more than make video ghosty and blurry. The ADVC-55 would be the least costly of the three Canopus DV box options, and does all that is needed. Your videos will be hardware compressed to DV AVI files, or DV MOV/Quicktime files on Mac.
• Remember that the capture card is only a small portion of the overall equipment needed to get quality captures! You'll still need, at very minimum, a good VCR and a good timebase corrector (TBC). For 8mm formats, you'll need a good Sony 8mm/Hi8/Digital8 camera. And that's all "good" equipment by video standards, not the typical consumer's "I don't see a problem with it, so I guess it's good" non-standard (because they don't know the difference between good video, and videos with obviously flaws/problems!).
• Amazon reviews warning! While the intention of user reviews is to provide feedback on products, more often the reviews do little more than show the knowledge (or lack thereof) of the person leaving the review. At the time of this writing, for example, there's a really bad 1-star review for the Matrox MX02 that's clearly been left by somebody that doesn't know what he's doing. (HDMI capture from a retail Blu-ray, for example -- of course that's not allowed!) Don't be overly swayed by Amazon reviews, neither good nor bad, as at least half of all Amazon reviews have clearly been left by clueless reviewers.
• eBay buying warning! Most used capture cards found on eBay tend to be missing parts (even when the auction text claims otherwise), and have been used in unknown conditions. Capture cards are somewhat fragile hardware, and the devices can be ruined by long-term exposure to heat and cigarette smoke. You don't want somebody's old-and-abused capture card. Be very careful when shopping there. eBay is more like a garage sale or flea market than a used car lot at a dealership (where cars were inspected, fixed, complete, etc).

Quick History on Why ATI AIW Cards are Preferred

The ATI All In Wonder card -- or more specifically, the ATI Theatre Rage and Theatre 200 chipsets on the cards, coupled with the ATI Multimedia Center (ATI MMC) software -- were an unexpected force on the video capturing market. Prior to the ATI AIW cards, you could choose from really crappy $50-100 consumer capture cards based on Bt chipsets, or high quality professional specialty cards in the $1000+ range (DV only, MPEG only, etc). ATI managed to create a card that had most of the capture abilities of higher end cards (MPEG-2, DV, etc), as well as the advantages of lossless and uncompressed AVI capturing. As an added features, it threw in some PVR type functions. These cards really ate into the business of the higher end card makers like Matrox, and pushed down the prices of inferior cards based on Bt/Conexant. For several years there, if you were capturing video (and doing a good job at it!), you were using something from ATI, Hauppauge, Canopus or Matrox.

Fast forward to about 2009, and most video capture cards and DVD recorders had died off, replaced by TiVo-like clones meant to only record from TV. Advanced features created for analog conversion had largely been dumped, making new cards useless for all but recording ATSC "digital" TV (including HDTV). Therein lies the reason many people still use, keep and look for these "old" ATI All In Wonder cards.

The suggested ATI All In Wonder cards are here: http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/vide...html#post13441

The only downside to these older cards is that you're pretty much required to use Windows XP, and you'll need a motherboard and CPU from that era. You can't buy the latest-and-greatest quad-core Intel and Windows 7. That generation of OS and hardware belongs to the "PVR" generation of video -- not the analog-to-digital conversion era.

When possible, simply get a motherboard with AGP. Dumping a motherboard is preferred to dumping the ATI AIW cards.


If you have any further questions on capture cards, either reply here or post a new thread. :)

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Bleary Eye'd from exhaustive researching AIW Cards
 

Will become premium member soon!...But as an aside,from this topic..A BIG THANK YOU! For this site!!..Last year I found a Brand New Mitsu. HS-HD2000U At: "MR. TV" in Grand Terrace,Ca. for $189.00 out the door!!and sealed factory to boot!!(don't tell anyone,but they still have 2 more as of 6/15/2011!) Phone is (909)824 2500...Then got an AVT 8710,Then a new WIN 7 System with TV Wonder 650 hd...Then tried a few captures with poor results...Then After researching your forums further,discovered that An XP system built around an AIW Card IS THE WAY TO GO!! So as I started asking around the local comp and surplus stores,Not only did I get some funny looks,but also opened another bag"o"worms;Like missing I/O cables for AIW cards,AGP vsPCI,Ect,Ect,!!!...My Question is I found an AIW 2006 Edition Radeon 9600 agp 8x/4x online NEW for 59.00 @ an online retailer that looks legitimate! Should I Grab Now??? Also was wondering if any diff between the AGP /PCIE version of this particular card?Since the PCIE cards were changed for the worse???And if this card truly is NEW,it should have all the stuff and save a lot of hassle?Also,any suggestions for a low cost XP CPU components?(mob,processor,ect...)And finally,a local surplus store has an AIW x800xt for 15.00,but I would need to get the cables AND internal power cable AND PARYAY! THAT IT WORKS!.....Already located, cables n stuff are available at S.video.com and TXcess.com.Sorry for long wind,But thanks for any help!(2 years of flustration and counting)Rewards just around the corner!!??

Welcome. Glad to hear you've found it helpful. :)

As per the above post, ATI All In Wonder cards are a preferred card for converting analog video (VHS, 8mm, etc) to lossless and uncompressed AVI files, in order to further process and edit them with software like VirtualDub or Adobe Premiere Pro. It's an excellent way to capture video that will later need more restoring. In many cases, it's also a perfect way to capture already-flawless video (non-VHS sources) directly to DVD-ready MPEG files. (Note: For VHS sources, it can be used for direct-to-MPEG recording, and will look decent filtered with VideoSoap, but LSI chipset based DVD recorders, such as the JVC DR-M10 and DR-M100 models, will do better.)

As far as the nuanced differences between the various ATI All In Wonder Radeon cards,
Read this post: http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/vide...html#post13441

The 2006 edition card was the last AGP slot card, and was for AGP 4x/8x motherboards only. Only buy this card is your motherboard has a true 8x AGP slot in it. Otherwise it will not function. That's the only real trick. I don't offhand recall what versions of ATI MMC 9.x it was limited to, but would not be surprised if it was for the final non-VideoSoap editions.

If it is sold as "new" and the seller is not lying, then I think it's fair to assume all parts be present.

I got a Conexant 2388x, MSI TV @nywhere, how is that compared to the one recommended?

I don't completely recall if this is an MPEG-2 hardware encoder, or if it was a generic BT8x8/Conexant type capture chipset (meaning AVI-only capturing suggested). I do at least remember that it gave decent quality captures for its time. What software comes with it? Or what should have come with it, when it was new? I know a lot of so-called "MPEG" cards were using really lousy MPEG software, like PowerVCR, WinDVR or neoDVD -- all of which shriveled up and went away, which is good.

Jog my memory. :o

I have no idea what the original software is supposed to be.
I bougth the card separate from Ebay, and used special drivers to get it working in windows 7 x64.
And now i am currently using it in Dscaler, which in the latest version has a unique drivers which works even better.

I can capture Yuy2 Lossless, NTSC,PAL,SECAM,PAL60(only with dscaler driver).

Don´t know what´s more important, maybe that the White Crush isn´t Ideal so i am trying to tweak it.

I don't remember how the quality compared to ATI and others listed here.
But I will say this: I do NOT remember there being any widespread complaints about this card. And that's a good sign.

Well that's good :)

But what is the main difference between cards? As there isn't a Precise way to capture analogue.
If we skip the part where they drop frames thanks to no-tbc etc, or the likes. And just go with the quality of the picture?

From what i have read does the Intensity Pro have issues with frame drops without a TBC, when older cards (ATI, Conextant etc) doesn´t.

Compared to the 878, there's adaptive comb filtering and 10bit adc. The white crush problem could be corrected by another device with a procamp. The procamp controls on the cx only multiply the values that were already digitized. The cx has one nice feature though, a vbi mode that can record the entire raw signal including hsync, about 1400 pixels per line. I'm working on using that for line-tbc.

Oh i see, well i wouldn´t want something else in my chain.

And yeah i know, from Doom9, it´s really interesting, and tell me if i can help you with anything.
I am not technical and stuff, but i have the card so i may be able to do something perhaps:)

But why can´t the White Crush be solved without something else in the chain btw?

It's almost impossible to correct crushing problems, as the data is lost. Hence crushed. All a proc amp does is compensate for it.

Black levels (IRE) isn't quite as bad of an issue, as it tends to just brighten black, as opposed to destroy shadows. But it's in the same family of errors. And it can go either way -- reparable or irreparable.

Also remember that this can alter luminance, which includes green color shifting.

Ideally, you want all devices to respect colorspaces properly.

I see BM has a new Intensity Pro 4K. It replaced the Intensity Pro, and comes with DaVinci Resolve Lite (as a download), at the same $190 price point (at B&H).

Anyone tried it? It supports 10-bit analog capture now, both uncompressed and compressed formats. It requires 4-lane (or more) PCIe v2 slot (the prior Pro card did work in a 1-lane).

The TBC mentioned on their site is not a true TBC in the usual line or frame/field sense. It was described as being more tolerant of time base error and will be less likely to drop the video. Instead of dropping video with time base error you now capture it with any time base error visible.

Anyone tried it?

It does drop frames. On VideoHelp I shared my experience trying it out. I haven't had time to do anything more with it yet.

Bump!bump!bump!bump!

I've taken over this sticky thread, and have given some updates. If you have something to add, please do so. :)

The first one capture card in the list is Hauppauge 610 USB2 capture stick. Does this mean that other cards with same chipset (Conexant CX23012) are as good as this card or is it special in some way? I have AVerMedia DVD EZMaker 7 and Gotview MasterHD 5, but I have one issue with them, and I wonder if I have to replace them or just getting one of the recommended VCR will be enough to solve it?

Two quick checks on the MD Intensity Pro and Intensity Pro 4K capture cards.

Source: live s-video feed from a NTSC Canon XL1 3-CCD camcorder.
Target: MacBeth ColorChecker chart illuminated by two halogen floods
Manual white balance to gray card.
Exposure set so that the bright white square (lower left) is on the verge of zebra (about 95 IRE)
The IP and IP4K Desktop Video Utility capture configuration in neutral setting.
Uncompressed 4:2:2 8-bit YUV AVI capture format.
No filters or other processing applied

The JPG created by loading the video clips on an Edius 7.5 Pro timeline and a still saved for each clip.
Still1205_00001.JPG from the Intensity Pro with the 10.4.2 drivers and Media Express 3.4.1.
Still1205_00002.JPG from the Intensity Pro 4K with the 10.5.1 drivers and Media Express 3.5.

Note that this is from a stable source, and says nothing about the ability of the cards to capture from a source providing a signal is outside the NTSC legal bounds. It does show the differences between the cards/drivers color balance.

If these are being fed the same signal, it looks like your IP4K is also misaligning the image (causing the bottom to be cropped) like mine.

Same signal source and settings, but the camera may have shifted a bit as the cables were changed from one computer to the other.

The Blackmagic cards just have too many flaws to be suggested.

Well, you have to remember that cards are more than chipsets alone. In the world of photo, Nikon and Sony both use Sony sensors. But the cameras are vastly different, and both makers have their own use of the sensors. Video is the same. They may use the chips, but they're not the same.

AVerMedia is not a quality brand.

Should put a warning in the OP to stay away from Huappauge cards. Getting them to work properly is a headache and takes hours of fiddling with different drivers versions, and you'll likely wind up with hardware MPEG encoded footage anyway.

How comparable to a Canopus ADVC-100/110 DV capture box or an ATI HD 600 is this Elgato USB stick? And is the HD 750 as good as the HD 600? Just wondering as I'm having trouble finding any 600 listings but there's a few 750 out there (on eBay...)

Side note, how does the Canopus connect to a PC?

Elgato Video Capture - Digitise Video for Mac, PC or iPad (USB 2.0) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0029U2YSA...language=en_US

Trying to feel out the best solution that is also accessible. I've found some of these are harder to come by in 2019!

Just get the ATI 600 USB, and I still have a few in the marketplace.

A Canopus is DV, loses 50% of color data for NTSC (4:1:1), only decent for PAL (4:2:0 like most MPEG captures). It must connect via Firewire, which is also becoming harder to use -- not that it was ever easy, always had screwy issues.

That Elgato is a piece of junk, 640x480 max resolution.

What is the difference between the ATI 600 USB series and the subsequent revisions (650, 750, etc.)? Do they use an inferior chipset or something?

Hi, I am planning to digitize VHS and looking for decent capture device. (VHS sorted in separate thread)
So from what I understand ATI AIW cards are more less dead due AGP not avaliable anymore and W10 driver compatibilities. Unless one likes to run Pentium 4 era computer with WXP hoping nothing will just die of old age without easy replacement.

While picking from the list on the first page I see as an options:

1. Professional capture card(Aja Kona or Matrox)+HD capture card. Is then digitizer and capture in two separate devices?
I also cannot easily see how to connect to VHS (Composite/S-Video+Stereo sound) I can see they have SDI, Component or HDMI as video input interface or some proprietary cables without any cables on photos (did not took much time digging) So quite confusing stuff with lost of worries I will not make it work. Also I am not sure if I am paying premium for no or at least lower damage of picture leaving VHS.
2. Consumer models which are
USB capture sticks which looks easy if drivers work and only issue the will be conecting audio to sound cards and capture them together from two devices (I guess no big deal)
OR
Analog to DV converters which are even easier for me, while i worked with DV camcorder for while and I have PC with firewire and capture in Premiere always worked very well for me.

Have I missed anything for PAL SD capture or there is much more to consider?

Thanks.

Why do you think this? You can still build XP/7 systems. AGP was on motherboards that took Core 2 Duo/Quad CPUs, 4gb+ RAM, SATA II, PCIe, etc. I have Asrock boards with XP.

Win10 is a terrible OS for video. It's a tablet OS that was crippled for audio/video, especially in latter updates (mostly due to GDPR).

Do not use HD cards, even if it "also" captures SD (as most do so badly, especially Blackmagic and Magewell cards). There are plenty of USB cards for this task -- and less costly.

Certain cards are known to work in Win10. Most take workarounds -- again, terrible video OS -- but do work.

No such thing occurs. :unsure:

These lose 50%+ of color quality (for NTSC, not PAL). For PAL, the 4:2:0 is fine. Not lossless, but still decent. However, the bigger problem is connectivity, between Firewire, and software like WinDV that can act up, insists on over-segmenting everything (even when segmenting disabled).

Well I was not planning to have dedicated PC for video capture and my current one is newer than that. However i have two PCI slots and PCMCIA adapter in one of them. Also firewire COM port floppy header. it is also Asrock board :-)

I am running W10 as upgrade from W7. Never had an idea this could be an issue. I am not looking forward turning back to W7 while I have to have this PC somewhat usable for everyday tasks,

Any possibilities and comparison in Linux? While one option is dedicated capture machine, could Mac be better option? Like Mac mini could be dirt cheap, takes no space compared to PC tower, has FireWire USB, harddrive could be external if integrated is too small. I never used Mac tho...

OK, I had no intention using them. Even I was first interested in solution Technology Connections suggested it looked too good to be true and i left this idea after few discussions here and elsewhere.

USB + workarounds could be way for my current setup then, but if it is worse quality option of the ones mentioned just cause W10 then I kinda do not favor it.


I am in PAL territory. If I am doing this for other people (maybe) and if somebody brings me NTSC tape (unlikely) to copy to PC it is similar situation if he brings me BetaMax, Hi8 or 8mm film. (kinda more likely then NTSC tape) I just don't have any hardware for it.

Question then is how does PAL capture thru ATI AIW, USB sicks you mentioned and DV box capture compare?
As I said I captured DV from miniDV camcorder which I still have somewhere, so I can test it out again in W10 for example. It was not completely straight forward task but doable in Premire. Result was aprox 30GB avi in SD per tape which i then edited in Premiere and mastered to DVD. I did not knew better way to do it but I guess most of quality loss was at the end between processed AVI and DVD. Which I will not do now while drive space is not much of an issue as it was at the time.

Speaking of DVD. Maybe it is for different thread or bad way of thinking all together, but simply just using DVD recorder is an option? I guess it is also question which one and its settings. And for sure it lowers editing options even when using hard drive inside. On the other hand. In europe now DVB-T is being transferred to DVB-T2 and most of these are starting to be obsolete for households making them "scrap metal" so getting decent one might be easy. And I still have one from Sony home in our living room.

Sorry for such load of newbie questions. I am still looking for decent VCR anyway and just making clear my next steps. :question:

Easy solution. Yank Win10 SSD/HDD, swap to video/Win7 SSD/HDD for video only. When done, swap back. Essentially manual dual boot. My dev system has 3x HDD: WinXP, Win7, Win10. I just move the SATA cable to whatever I want to boot into.

Linux can work with some cards, but it's fiddly and hackish more than not. Some cards, like ATI 600 USB, must have custom firmware loaded. So it's almost a 1-way trip.

For PAL DV only, maybe. The newer macOS are grumpy, DV capture task for OS X days.

Perfect example of what happens when novices try to be teachers. He doesn't even know what he doesn't know.

Of all the Win10, the Pinnacle option is best. And it's quite decent on its own merits, regardless of Windows version.

AIW best.
Then USB like ATI 600 USB, clones, Pinnacle, some others.
DV is last. In PAL, decent. In NTSC, terrible.

That really will not end well. Premiere is a terrible capture software. Amazing NLE, but the capture task is terrible, lots of issues, with the main problem being dropped frames.

Maybe. What is the project goal? If source is analog tapes, stick to LSI based (some JVC, some LiteOn, etc). If digital tapes, then any decent recorder known for quality (ie, NOT Panasonic, most Sony, etc).

It's what the site is for. In fact, in the name: FAQ. You got questions, we got answers. :P

I have followed now for about 20 years german speaking video fourms from Austria, Swiss and Germany.

The recommended hardware for SD PAL capture on these videoforums is:

Canopus NX (Unfortunately you'll need Edius to capture your tapes).

Followed by Pinnacle 500,710 USB, Blackmagic Intensity Shuttle (capture over HDMI Input from HDMI Output from DVD Recorder, don't use the analog inputs).

The Canopus NX and the Blackmagic (HDMI capture) are not popular here on these forum but haven't been testet from the valued users.

If you will use the ATI AIW,600 it's necessary to use an external tbc. The ATI's have problems with Macrovision (false Macrovision).

My advice make your own testing and compare.

I will check these out tomorrow. Looks like there is great variety of types and slots they use. Unless it is PCI or PCIE I will need to buy MB to use them.

So DVD recorder is used as digitiser (or even upscaler?) This kinda asks for references for good/bad ones in picture quality or used A/D chips and if there are some just digitizers using the very same ones while DVD recorders are bulky with loads of unnecessary parts to be used just as picture format converter.

As I understand TBC can be part of high end S-VHS machine. Also Macrovision (if you mean VHS copy protection) will not be on any tapes I like to digitize. Unless our long time gone Mitsubishi VCR put it on our home videos. If somebody will ask me to digitize some released VHS movie, will get link to the online store to buy DVD or Blu-ray anyways.

I will make my testing for sure and I will be more than happy to post results here. It sounds like good idea to identify "dead ends" first before i set sail for my dream VHS remastering setup.

This will be a rambling post, but I can't think of a better way to clean it up. So: your goal is PAL VHS capture, ideally on Win10.

Some quality comparison threads you might like to look at. My VideoHelp username is vaporeon800; I wrote a lot of replies in the thread below.

VideoHelp: Conventional analog capture workflow vs alternative methods - comparison (sprawling thread because FLP347 made a lot of config errors while learning, but includes a lot of nice samples so you can see quality differences for yourself vs. taking someone's word for it)

http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/vide...n-avt8710.html

---

For most of my own NTSC captures, my preferred workflow is the second method mentioned by Bogilein, though slightly modified. Instead of:

S-VHS player <S-Video> DVD recorder <HDMI> HDMI splitter* <HDMI> Blackmagic Intensity variants

I do:

S-VHS player <S-Video> analog proc amp <S-Video> DVD recorder <HDMI> HDMI splitter* <HDMI> AVerMedia C027 or C127

* Specific models that remove copy protection

The choice of DVD recorder model is critical, since it's replacing the digitization function of a typical capture card setup and externalizing it outside of the PC.

latreche34 aka dellsam34 uses a similar externalized approach, but with SDI instead of HDMI.

As he notes, some downsides of using consumer HDMI devices instead of pro SDI devices can include forced signal processing. For example, although I can disable the scaling functions of the three NTSC HDMI DVD recorder models I've used, I can't disable deinterlacing (lowest res is 480p). Fortunately, it's 100% losslessly reversible (I confirmed with careful testing). But it's an annoying extra step. My understanding is that all of the popular PAL models allow 576i over HDMI.

Note: some HDMI and SDI capture cards change the incoming video instead of capturing the digital signal as-is, so you do have to be careful of that as well. (I thought I posted the images of my Osprey card altering colors of SDI test patterns, but if I did I can't find them.)

---

If you're interested in the Canopus NX PCIe hardware (Canopus NHX-E2), I'm willing to sell mine. But I don't have a copy of the necessary software to offer. (And shipping from Canada to your PAL land will probably negate any deal I could offer.)

I bought it because PAL users on forums say that it corrects horizontal jitter, but I found this wasn't the case with my NTSC tapes. And I don't have a PAL VCR to test with. https://gleitz.info/forum/index.php?...orrektur-ntsc/

I imported my NHX-E2 from Japan, where it was called Velxus 300. The photos on this Greek eBay listing also show "Made in Japan", so I assume they were all made there. (Canopus was a Japanese company.)

https://web.archive.org/web/20051208...s300_index.htm
http://www.canopus.ir/products/ediusnx.htm

I've got the NX Bay and Component Output board shown there, but never tried to use them.

Thanks for another view and sources for comparison. I will look thru it over weekend.



Thanks for offer, but I guess Canada is too far for shipping to make sense. Colleague of mine will spend some time in states next month, so maybe if he can bring it to me, but if possible I will look in local sources.

I've also used the DVD-Recorder -> HDMI setup quite a bit, in addition to the VC500 on other machines. I use a Sony RDR-HX750 for good tapes and a Panasonic DMR-EH57 for more problematic tapes the Sony's TBC can't deal with well . (For REALLY bad tapes I have an ES10 as well, but that doesn't have HDMI). I've used a JVC DR-M300 a bit in the past as well.

As msgohan noted, the downside with this approach is that DVRs can have filters and settings that are not very tuneable. I'm in PAL land, so I haven't had any issues with getting the DVRs to output 576i. However, the Panasonic and to a much lesser extent JVC have a tendency to clip whites, so I use a make-shift analog "proc-amp" (actually just a potentiometer from a cassette deck connected between Y and ground) to lower the video level a bit. The Sony (and related pioneer models) have adjustable brightness levels and AGC so it rarely gives me level issues.

The Sony uses a chipset made by NEC. NEC's brand for their multimedia system chipset solution is EMMA. It's also used in Pioneer DVRs (newer Sony and pioneer models are basically identical). Early Sony and Pioneer models used different hardware, though that was pre-HDMI. Toshiba used similar hardware for some DVRs, but they've also seem to have used a zoran-made chipset and later models are rebranded Funai units that use panasonic A/D chip.

The Sony (and related pioneers) have ok jitter correction, but not as good as the panasonic models. There are some H sync and V sync settings in the service menu though, which I plan to test as I picked up a programmable remote that I can put the service remote codes on.

I know there is at least one capture card, the Avermedia M780, that uses related NEC chips for video decoding but I don't know how well it works. There may be more out there but it doesn't seem to be used much on capture devices, avermedia seems to mostly use conexant chips on their SD capture cards.

The Panasonic unsurprisingly use a panasonic chipset, it has pretty decent jitter correction and is good at keeping sync in general, though not quite as good as the older ES10 I got. I've never seen any capture devices using panasonics chips.

The JVC has a custom JVC A/D chip (I thought used a TI TVP5150 but turns out it has that chip is used for something else in it.) and a LSI chipset for mpeg encoding and general system stuff. It has barely any jitter correction, though I found it can do a decent job otherwise. One interesting thing is that unlike the two other DVRs, the HDMI out does not require HDCP for material that is not copy-protected (Sony and Pana does not work at all without my HDMI splitter for capturing). It pops up with a copy-protection message if it detects it when connected to a non-HDCP device instead.

I do also have a LG DVR with HDMI, which uses a Philips/NXP SAA7136, though I've only briefly tested it on a monitor, it does not do jitter correction at least. That chip is found in some capture cards, and related philips A/D chips are (or were at least) widely used in dongles and pci cards.

One interesting thing with capturing via this method is that pixels on the left/right edge of the picture is are blanked as they typically are when using a TBC or DVR via S-Video out, usually there is nothing there but on some tapes it does pick up a bit more image.

Thanks for all the replies. Its getting bit too overwhelming and seems situation is more like "every family has its own perfect BBQ" than "here is cookbook recipe everybody loves"

As DVD recorder I have Sony RDR-HXD790. Never used any analog inputs so I even don't know they work and how quality looks. We bought it new so I am not worried about it and I will for sure try it.

One thing in discussion have caught mine eye.
How about setup:
(S-VHS VCR) >>---S-Video+RCA Stereo sound--->> (SD Digitizer) >>---SDI--->> (PCI/USB/PCIe digital capture card)
If the capture card and its driver can just save the stream to some readable format, that can be later processed without real time dependency it could help preserve quality of digitized media. Like if capture takes hundred(s) of gigabytes and takes week(s) to lossless compress to something more practical, I am fine with it. So question is if those HDMI+SDI (Blackmagic) cards do this?
I guess then finding right digitizer would be the main issue. SD-SDI is 90s studio format so maybe some old studio equipment? How much could these things wear under everyday use? And did they care about quality that much at the times of analog TV while processing digitaly? And I kinda can see no answers will be straight forward.

The point behind this one is: If I am recording digital HDMI source to PC, there will be loads of devices varying quality. Starting at those dollar amazon/ebay/aliexpress unranded boxes nearly small as connectors, thru various DVD recorders, to professional studio tech for thousands. SDI cuts this to much smaller group of devices making selection somewhat easier. Or more difficult to find.

My personal take is that while I would prefer to use "pro" SDI gear, the reality is that proper handling of consumer tape sources was not at the top of the engineers' priorities. Whereas there was a period where consumer DVD recorders were designed to finesse crappy consumer tapes.

I have one SDI TBC with a mode specifically designed for what the manual calls "home type VCRs", but it performs worse than a DMR-ES15.

latreche34 enables the line TBC of his JVC S-VHS when feeding it into his small, modern SDI frame TBC box. So he's using it as ADC & frame sync only, which any HDMI DVD recorder also does.

I bought a "custom" card put together by danno78 that works with the drivers of AVerMedia H777 (linked pic shows NEC µPD61253). Another model with same chip is this weird F210 Ethernet box. But I can't see what chip my XCard actually uses. This other guy seems to think it's a separate model entirely.

It's pretty good with ordinary recordings, but can't handle the stress of multi-gen: https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/...deo-samples%29

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Off the current topic because they're NTSC-only & require old Windows versions, but Japan got some exclusive models advertised as touting TBC, 3DNR, & 3DYC. I have a 13-page Google Doc full of my research compiled from 2014-2016, but they're just my own notes, not really in a form I'm comfortable sharing.

I bought a few of them. In my comparison, I-O DATA GV-MVP/RX3 [μPD61153B] & GV-MVP/GX2 [XCodeII-E with "frame synchronizer (TBC equivalent)"] actually had worse horizontal stability than old ATI cards. https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/...on-screenshots

I also got a capture card that uses a Panasonic chip for TBC; it's not included in that thread because it arrived in a semi-functional state. But my testing showed that it seemed to match the performance of my DVD recorder captures, including their faults.

Old 2chan post with some comparisons. Canopus MTV2000 is one of the cards containing a Panasonic video processor.
Another interesting thing I found in my research was this "stabilizer" box built around a Panasonic chip; but being from 2003 it doesn't have HDMI.

From ~18 years ago.

https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/...OK-VERY-HOT%29

The price of mxo2 has gone down a lot. Here in europe is about 300€ (340$) or even less. I got one.

Are any of the old internal PC Hauppauge cards any good? I have one in the attic, but I'm not digging it out if they're all rubbish.

I've managed to find a video card I have from 2003. It works off a Phillips SAA7134HL. This does all the work. Has anyone any experience with it?

Here's the data sheet:
http://pdf.datasheetcatalog.com/data...ps/SAA7134.pdf

https://www.linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/Saa713x_devices

I have a SAA7133HL card. On Windows XP and probably Linux, it's extremely configurable. It handles unstabilized VHS much better than any USB capture device I've tried. Of course, without using any line TBC there is still some wiggling even with my most stable retail tapes.

One downside is that it's only 9-bit; there is banding in histograms of all my captures with this card regardless of Proc Amp settings. Visually, I haven't seen this banding. The noise in my VHS caps may be enough to mask it. I haven't yet tried to capture any DVD test patterns with it, but it's on my to-do list.