trying now with the newest version of TMPG, but if i see that the cq is the same , i cancel.
with rc2 , i have the feeling that i had to set the cq value manually down .
f.ex, prediction is 74, i´d use then 72, or 71 sth like that, then it would be (perhaps) fitting all the way :)
lets see, going on testing ;)

I've been using the latest tmpgenc but come to think of it before I was using 2.513 when I was getting accurate cqmatic predictions. Just noticed that kwag put a note that cqmatic is not accurate for avi files... I'm taking the same approach as you for testing, if I get the same CQ I know it's not accurate. Right now I'm going back to beta 4 and from the start of things, it's going down in CQ! It'd be interesting to prove whether some of the earlier betas were actually more accurate for avis or not.

i´m not using avis, i have dvd as sources well....

now im testing rc3 again, with NEWEST tmpg version, and other settings , lets see later...

cancelled test, cq pretty the same...

another test now, taking a cq of 77,31 , with that the video stream was 727mb , so a little big, will take now 74,31, lets see results later
bye

MIN yes. MAX no. For KDVDs, leave the MAX as they are set.

-kwag

i just don´t know further :(

i can use EVERY setting for max and min bitrate, butt the vs is always gettin 20mb-30mb too big :((

could any1 up the beta6? with that i had the most success

JUst my opinion about the newest tmpge 2.520 ,can't say for sure (not enough tests) but so far even with tok the video seems to be too much.When using tmpge 2.58 if anything the video would be too small.I did a test with the newest cqmatic and got a cq of 81 and got a video size of about 798mb just video,and with tok the cq was almost identical but got a video size of about 776 just video.(the sources were avi's).I am going to run the same avs through tok with tmpge 2.58 and see what happens

Hi tigger,

These is my setup, just in case there are some differences to what you are using:

TMPGEnc Plus version 2.520.54.163
AviSynth 2.52 Build July 17, 2003 [12:46:12]
All my tests we using the MA script, as is, and also without any scripts at all. Just reading the .d2v directly with TMPEG.

Here is a project file, which you may copy and load in TMPEG. Then change the relevant settings for your project, and save the project again:


So far, AVIs are predicted incorrectly. I posted a note at the top of this thread, related to that. All my tests have been with DVD sources.
Apparently, it has to do with the way prediction samples the source, so I believe it's a CODEC issue. Right now, I'm strictly working on .d2v (mpeg) sources, so I can tune precision to the max. Then I'll proceed to figure out why the strange behaviour with AVI sources.

-kwag

Does anybody have any answers to my previous post?

@kwag
Will there be a user guide out soon?

Hi mistermickster,

I didn't see your post 8O
You don't need avisynth. As a matter of fact, you can even use TMPEG directly on your source, but you won't gain the advantage of using avisynth's filters :)
You can use any bitrate calculator.You bet it does :D There is one already :!:
Look on "Avalon's" signature.

-kwag

Hi mistermickster,

I didn't see your post 8O
You don't need avisynth. As a matter of fact, you can even use TMPEG directly on your source, but you won't gain the advantage of using avisynth's filters :)
You can use any bitrate calculator.You bet it does :D There is one already :!:
Look on "Avalon's" signature, or here: http://www.kvcd.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5188

-kwag

RC-4 is up :!:

As usual, link and change log here:
http://www.kvcd.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5145

-kwag

@Kwag,

As promised, here's my results of "Green Mile":

Movie .................... Green Mile
Length in Time ....... 191 min 55 sec ( 3 hours 11 min 55 sec)
Template ............... 352x240 ULBR KVCD
Average bitrate ...... 508 (MovieStacker)
Min ....................... (508 x 0.57) ~ 290 (Tmpgenc)
Max ...................... 1150 (Tmpgenc)
Audio size ............. 64 kbps (~90mb) (MovieStacker)
Video target size .... 709 mb (MovieStacker)
CD ....................... 1 80minute
CQMatic ................ version 1.0 RC-3
CQ ....................... 79 (CQMatic)

CQMatic log:

Results:

Final Video filesize ........... 694mb
Final Audio filesize ........... 90mb
Total A/V ........................ 784mb

Comments:

This was really a test for filesize prediction accuracy which is only 16mb
under the prediction. That's very accurate :D The video took ~9 hours
to encode with credits included. It's looks great on a small screen and
only during action scenes is there light blocks and Gibbs effect is very
reduced. The only drawback was the lengthly time (2 hr 6 minutes)
it took for CQMatic to get the final CQ. I feel confident that CQMatic
will give me a good filesize prediction if the source is DVD. :wink:

-bp

But I'll need to install Avisynth to make use of the filters, right?

@kwag

Does CQMatic make it's prediction on the whole movie or just a short sample?

Would SVCD still give a better result over VCD when using CQ encoding?

Cheers

Hi Kwag,

CQmatic seems so easy to use :D

I did have a question in why is the min/max values so important in determining final CQ and file size accuracy? It could of been posted previously - though fell behind in reading the posts the last couple of days (couldn't get on KVCD.net -- what up with that Comcast :? )

Anyway, using RC-1

Kanagaroo Jack
352x480 Cq=66
min=400
max=2500
file encode size was right on :P

Now I tried encoding the same movie at 480x480 (can't encode at full KVCD-3 resolution .... DVD player limited)

CQ=57.5
min=.57*average(=630)
max= 2000
file size +13M (too big)

CQ=57.5
min=300
max= 2500
file size -12M (too small)

CQ=57.5
min=400
max= 2500
file size -7M (too small - actually perfect once I burn it on 1 CDR)

It's almost like this min/max is the fine adjustment for a specific resolution. Why the variance in file size by changing the min/max setting?

Now to read more posts

Thanks

If you want to use filters, yes you do. It samples 6 frames every second 15 seconds, for every minute of the complete movie. With TMPEG, CQ is the best encoding mode for resolutions above 352x240(288).
For 352x resolutions, CQ_VBR provides better results.
In both cases, it applies to both MPEG-1 and MPEG-2

-kwag

Hey thanks bp :)
The problem is that CQ between ~75 to 90 is not linear. That's why it took so long. Same applies for CQ between 1 to ~50.
So the best range will always be wneg CQ is between ~50 to ~75
If TMPEG's CQ was linear, it would only take one prediction encode :D
I'll see what happens when I add support for CCE and MCE :cool:

-kwag

Hi Chuck,

It has to do with the dynamic range in TMPEG. If average bitrate is exactly centered between MIN and MAX, that's excelent for the encoder. In our case, we usually are encoding with a very low average, closer to MIN than to MAX. This throws off the dynamic range of the encoder :) That's within range :) Not at all :!: It's also within specs :) Perfect again :D If you target for 2 CDs, where your average will be far above than for a single, you'll probably get almost perfect accuracy ;)

-kwag

@Kwag,

Kwag wrote:
Should I start Tmpgenc with CQ=55 or 50 to take advantage of this???
Can't wait for the CCE option. Finding the Q value determines filesize.
The lower the Q, the higher the quality and filesize. For MPEG-2, CCE has
the speed and is quality wise the same or better than Tmpgenc :)

-bp

Yep. For long movies, set your CQ to a low value. For short movies, set it to high values.
You can even just do this: Set CQ=0 for long movies, and set it to 100 for short movies. CQMatic will adjust the starting CQ (or CQ_VBR) for you automatically ;)

-kwag

Hi Kwag,

Another question, if you got a moment

If my average bit rate is 1100, for example wouldn't having Min=300 Max=2000, be "centered" better within the encoder's dynamic range than using Min=1100*.57=627, Max=2000?

It just seems (at least to my limited understanding) having the option of being able to encode at a lower bitrate can only help with regards to compression/quality.

Am I over simplifying this :?

Thanks again

Hi Chuck,

If your average is that high, then you don't need the (0.57 * average), because as you said, your average is already equidistant from MIN and MAX :D
The formula is best used when using average bitrates around ~900 and below, because it "pushes" the CQ curve up because of the higher calculated MIN bitrate.
I still prefer a MAX of 2,000Kbps when using the MA script because I get higher accuracy on prediction ( narrower Min, Max width )

-kwag

I get it now :cluebat:

Thanks again

- now to out what I learned :D

i can't seem to get CQMatic RC4 to work :?
tmpgenc just flashes a couple of times for a second and the log says cq is above watermark using cq of 90 8O

RC3 seems to be working fine for me, just wandering if there is a setting i have to change for RC4 :roll:

Hi kinggee,

Please check your paths, that you dont have any spaces or strange characters in the paths or the file names.

BTW, RC-5 is up!

-kwag

hmm there are no strange characters in the paths :?

:D will try now thankyou

What is the full path to your .tpr, and to your output file name in TMPEG :?:

-kwag

C:\Documents and Settings\Ben King\Desktop\KVCD ENCODING TOOLS\DogSoldiers.tpr

Output = C:\Documents and Settings\Ben King\Desktop\KVCD ENCODING TOOLS\DogSoldiers.m1v

now everytime i try to predict it gives a negative file size difference after the initial cq of 60 and jumps and stays on cq 90

Look at your file names :!:

C:\DocumentsspaceandspaceSettings\BenspaceKing\Desktop\KVCDspaceENCODINGspaceTOOLS\DogSoldiers.tpr

and Output = C:\DocumentsspaceandspaceSettings\BenspaceKing\Desktop\KVCDspaceENCODINGspaceTOOLS\DogSoldiers.m1v

ohhhhh so a space is not a normal character :oops:

i will fix this up and try again :lol:

thanks :)

kinggee,

The problem is the way TMPEG stores the file names in the project file. When you use very long filenames and paths, it stores them something like this:

'C:\--== DVD RIPPING ==--\Band Of Brothers 10 Teile\Teil 4\bob4.d' + '2v'

Which of course, is an error for any standard windows program trying to open the file :!:

-kwag

i see :!: 8O

now i understand :)

thanks for the explanation

Yes it is :!:
It's a space character :lol:

-kwag

its still not working :bawl:

video source = c:\dogsoldiers\dogsoldiers.avs
output filename = c:\dogsoldiers\dogsoldiers.m1v
tpr path = c:\dogsoldiers\dogsoldiers.tpr

Hi kinggee,

Send me your .tpr by PM :!:

Hmm...bad results
 

Ok, my PC just finished encoding movie...
Result: 781 129 659 bytes
Must be: 683.19 Mb....
Too bad. :(
The movie was: Half Past Dead, hi-action movie
Average bitrate: 972
MAX - 2000
MIN - 554
Total lenght - 97 min
Source - DVD
Now I cant fit it to cd, even with 112 kbps sound
CQmatic - version RC-3
Now i try to predict with newest (RC-5) version of CQmatic...

@GetUp:

Was your source DVD in PAL format or NTSC format?

Cheers,

NTSC, film

well curious here :

have an 84 min movie, set min=0.57*avg bitrate and max=2000,
predicted and got an cq of 71,89, took 71.

then i changed min to 270, max = 2000, and well the videostream got 659 mb + audio of 115 mb (192kbit) , after muxing the movie has 785 mb so perfect for 1 cd :)

@Kwag

So, if I want to encode a sample with my script settings and fave template to check the resulting quality, how do I do it?

Also, do the filters loaded in the optimal script come with Avisynth or are they external?

What sort of figures are passed to the Letterbox and GripCrop filters?

Thnx