Quantcast Besweet: AC3 Sound Too Quiet! - Page 4 - digitalFAQ.com Forums [Archives]
  #61  
07-11-2006, 02:41 AM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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It does VBR ac3 ? I did not know this exist.
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  #62  
07-11-2006, 02:55 AM
incredible incredible is offline
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Thanks Danpos!

Thats indeed quite interesting.

Even if I do not understand that people still do focus on Besweet, as its not beeing updated anymore and DspGuru seems to be in other things since a longer time.
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  #63  
07-11-2006, 02:17 PM
danpos danpos is offline
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@Dialhot

Me neither, but seems that this 'beast' exists ...

@Incredible

With regard on BeSweet, it's really a shame that such excellent tool doesn't be developed anymore Anyway, it seems that Justin Ruggles is interested to develop it and what is more cool is that he opened the source (the first release was focused on Linux, since that he uses this plataform; win32 was provided by Kurtnoise). Well, lets see how the things goes ahead ...

Regards,
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  #64  
12-12-2006, 11:57 AM
rds_correia rds_correia is offline
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Posting this on a BeSweet thread just sounds strange to me but anyway I am experiencing difficulties with AC3 to AC3 transcoding as explained by Incredible previously in this thread.
I tried BeHappy and since it didn't work properly I then tried ffmpeg alone.
Here is ffmpeg's CLI that I have been using (which is basically a copy paste from a BeHappy CLI):
Code:
ffmpeg.exe -i gotk448.ac3 -y -acodec ac3 -ab 384 gotk384.ac3
And here is the log from when it finished transcoding:
Code:
FFmpeg version SVN-r7166, Copyright (c) 2000-2006 Fabrice Bellard, et al.
configuration:  --extra-cflags=-I/static/include --extra-ldflags=-L/static/lib
 --enable-memalign-hack --enable-mp3lame --enable-xvid --enable-a52 --enable-libogg --enable-vorbis --enable-faac --enable-faad --enable-x264 --enable-pp --enable-amr_wb --enable-amr_nb --enable-avisynth --enable-dts --enable-libgsm --enable-gpl
  libavutil version: 49.1.0
  libavcodec version: 51.25.0
  libavformat version: 51.6.0
  built on Nov 24 2006 20:27:36, gcc: 3.4.6
Input #0, ac3, from 'gotk448.ac3':
  Duration: 01:34:06.9, start: 0.000000, bitrate: 448 kb/s
  Stream #0.0: Audio: ac3, 48000 Hz, 5 channels, 448 kb/s
Output #0, ac3, to 'gotk384.ac3':
  Stream #0.0: Audio: ac3, 48000 Hz, 5 channels, 384 kb/s
Stream mapping:
  Stream #0.0 -> #0.0
Press [q] to stop encoding
size=  317640kB time=6776.3 bitrate= 384.0kbits/s
video:0kB audio:317640kB global headers:0kB muxing overhead 0.000000%
As you can see from the log my source is 448kb/s and I am trying to transcode to 384kb/s and apparently at 1st sight all went well.
It's just that the source in 448 ac3 (308819KB) is smaller than the target 386 ac3 (317640KB) .
Now watch carefully these lines:
Code:
size=317640kB time=6776.3 bitrate= 384.0kbits/s
video:0kB audio:317640kB global headers:0kB muxing overhead 0.000000%
My source was extracted with DGIndex from a DVD.
The movie has 141.174 frames so if my math is still good:
Code:
141174/25=5646,96 secs.
and
384/8=48
so
5646.96*48=271054,08/1,024=264701,25KBytes
But the log says final filesize was 317640KB and when I try to open the file in any softplayer like foobar or mpc my PC crashes and reboots .
To prove my math:
Code:
141174/25=5646,96 secs.
448/8=56
(5646.96*56)/1,024=308818,125KB
And my 448kb/s ac3 file extracted with DGIndex is in fact 308819KB
This way you guys see that my math is not wrong or anything.
Plus the log also says that there were 6776.3 seconds but I only have 5647 seconds in my movie.
Obviously either there is something wrong with my ffmpeg CLI or there is something wrong with my ffmpeg binary.
For some reason I lost the ffmpeg.2006.04.19.7z binary that Incredible posted in this thread so I downloaded another one.
There are several developers that provide ffmpeg binaries, unfortunately Celtic Druid is not one of them any more .
Edit:
Wrong. Apparently this mirror does have all his files http://tirnanog.fate.jp/mirror/ while his most common site in the US http://ffdshow.faireal.net/ doesn't.
Nevertheless I tried with all his builds and I'm getting the same result oversized ac3...
So I downloaded from http://arrozcru.no-ip.org/ffmpeg_builds/.
Since I kept experiencing the same problem with the binary that I downloaded I just downloaded a more ancient release from the same site.
And since the problem was still there I downloaded from http://ffdshow.faireal.net/mirror/ffmpeg/ but I am still experiencing the same issue.
So, could somebody please upload the ffmep.2006.04.19.7z that Incredible posted on rapidshare but that is no longer available?
I used to work with that release and everything worked perfectly back then .
And sorry for this long post.
Cheers
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  #65  
12-13-2006, 10:26 AM
rds_correia rds_correia is offline
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Bump .
Guys, I'm really all out of options here.
If nobody posts a link to a working FFmpeg I can only go back and reencode my KDVD from scratch to accommodate 448 ac3 instead of 384 ac3.
All help will be much appreciated .
Cheers
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  #66  
12-13-2006, 05:58 PM
digitall.doc digitall.doc is offline
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Sorry Rui, cannot help you with FFmpeg, I don't work with it.

I guess that you don't need me to tell you, as what you need is FFmpeg for your encodings, and not just a solution for this particular encoding, but... did you try converting to wav and then encode to ac3 again?.

Just to solve your actual problem. Did you try with another source?, does it happen again on a different source?.

Well, I wish somebody will be able to upload this particular version for you.
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  #67  
12-13-2006, 06:35 PM
rds_correia rds_correia is offline
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Thank you so much for your comments digi.doc :P.
In fact after it started failing me with that ac3 track I extracted several other ac3 tracks from 4 or 5 movies covering from 448 to 384 and even one was 256 which I am told is very rare.
All the 4/5 of them fail with the exact same problem, target size above the source size (when I am trying to downsize), and target is not playable as it crashes and reboots my XP.
Now, I am veeeery newbie when it comes to audio.
I can encode ac3 to mp2 resampling to 44khz in case of KVCD and I can either keep the ac3 as is (usually at 384kbit/48khz) or if it is above 384kit I can transcode it to 384kbit when I am authoring a KDVD.
The only tools I know are HeadAC3he, BeSweet (find it bizarre and usually fail when using this one), BeHappy and last but not least FFmpeg since it is actually very similar to my good old MEncoder :P.
So this means that I can't extract the god damn thing to wave and then reencode it to ac3 or mp2 because I'm an idiot.
I can't do anything that takes more than 1,5 neuron .
Even if I could I am pretty sure that it would come out with the center playing on the front/right and the bass on the center, etc lool.
If I could I would use BeSweet, right?
Or I could maybe use SoftEncode...
But these tools have so many options that I don't know
I guess I'll wait a couple of days and see if Andrej logs on.
Even because in this particular case I could improvise but there will be times when I will really want to keep it in ac3 and then I won't be able to unless if I solve this issue first .
But thanks for caring .
Cheers Digi.doc
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  #68  
12-13-2006, 06:52 PM
digitall.doc digitall.doc is offline
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Sure Andrej way will be the best way.

I did this recode from 448 to 384 with SoftEncode several times, with some success. If it gets necessary, I could try to remember how it was.

Just tell me.
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  #69  
12-14-2006, 04:13 AM
incredible incredible is offline
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What about Aften Rui?
Regarding the original and resulting mediasizes: You should post this on the ffmpeg mailing list, maybe its really a bug.

Inc
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  #70  
12-14-2006, 06:41 AM
rds_correia rds_correia is offline
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Thanks for your PM Andrej .
Anyway I would be very much interested in Aften or SoftEncode if I learn to do it right .
For instance, Aften can only load a wave file right? No way I can load an AC3 file into Aften.
But anyway, intead of asking DGIndex to demux, you mean that I should ask it to "decode AC3 to Wave" right?
And then it's only a matter of loading that wave into BeHappy and make sure it uses Aften?
I mean, what settings should I use in BeHappy?
Will all the channels end up in the right place?
Or can I screw that up if I don't know what I'm doing :lol ?
Cheers guys and thanks a bunch
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  #71  
12-14-2006, 07:31 AM
rds_correia rds_correia is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by incredible
You should post this on the ffmpeg mailing list, maybe its really a bug.
I've browsed and searched the mailing list but although I found resemblant issues I did not find any with AC3 transcoding.
So I posted this http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp....mpeg.user/7086.
Let's see if they can give some help or at least shed some light to the subject.
If you want to browse the mailing list "à-lá" forum here it is inside gmane http://news.gmane.org/gmane.comp.video.ffmpeg.user.
Cheers
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  #72  
12-14-2006, 07:31 AM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rds_correia
For instance, Aften can only load a wave file right? No way I can load an AC3 file into Aften.
Tjis is possible with the GUI "Behappy" (if it has been fixed) or manually using bepipe.
Remember this thread :
http://www.kvcd.net/forum/viewtopic....ighlight=aften

Quote:
But anyway, intead of asking DGIndex to demux, you mean that I should ask it to "decode AC3 to Wave" right?
I don't think DGIndex manage 6-channels wav, so do not do that.

Quote:
And then it's only a matter of loading that wave into BeHappy and make sure it uses Aften?
Behappy can't open ac3 directly ? I remember that I had use it once, but not sure of the way.

Quote:
Will all the channels end up in the right place?
Yes, that is sure. I did not change anything to the default.
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  #73  
12-14-2006, 07:57 AM
rds_correia rds_correia is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dialhot
This is possible with the GUI "Behappy" (if it has been fixed) or manually using bepipe.
Remember this thread :
http://www.kvcd.net/forum/viewtopic....ighlight=aften
I didn't recall the bepipe.
I will look into that ASAP.
Quote:
I don't think DGIndex manage 6-channels wav, so do not do that.
Ok, I will take that into consideration and I will start with the method above .
Anyway, I just posted this at D9.
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.ph...094#post917094
One can actually extract a decode wav file.
As you see, no need to re-save your project if you already saved it before with audio demux instead of audio decode.
BTW I got a file name is T01 3_2ch 448Kbps 48KHz.wav so I would guess it is a 6-channels decode.
But I'm not an expert and I can't prove that so I will take your way first .
Quote:
Behappy can't open ac3 directly ? I remember that I had use it once, but not sure of the way.
No, it keeps on bugging me with an error message.
I will post it (the error message) in a couple of minutes.
Quote:
Yes, that is sure. I did not change anything to the default.
That's nice.
No way a big "john of the jungle" like me can screw up the process .
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  #74  
12-14-2006, 08:09 AM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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FYI : if I did that only once, it's because I found the process not convenient at all .
But I can swear there is a way to do a 448 -> 384 transcode using aften/bepipe/behappy, that is sure. You just have to find how .
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  #75  
12-14-2006, 08:24 AM
rds_correia rds_correia is offline
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Forget the part about not being able to load an ac3 into behappy.
It does load into behappy and it even starts encoding.
But around ~70% of encode it stops, I mean behappy stays loaded and on-screen but the progress bar keeps in the same position.
When I go to the folder where it should be creating the new transcoded ac3 I can see the file it is creating only that the size does not increase as it usually does until the 70% encode .
Half an hour later I am forced to go to task manager and stop behappy and ffmpeg otherwise I burn my CPU for nothing because it is really stopped and ffmpeg keeps the CPU at 99% usage.
Sorry for misleading you guys in the previous post but I'm also getting messed up myself .
BUT loading an ac3 into Aften using Behappy GUI doesn't work and Aften manual only mentions wave input .
Dead end again?
Or can I use bepipe to load that ac3 into Aften?
Cheers
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  #76  
12-14-2006, 08:45 AM
rds_correia rds_correia is offline
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I'm sorry but I just can't understand the logic behind bepipe.
To me it looks like behappy's CLI version.
Which means, behappy limitations are shared by bepipe thus I can't get anywhere with it and my 448 ac3 that I want to transcode to 384 ac3 using Aften.
As said Aften seems to be able to open wave files only.
Meaning that avisynth scripts are not an option either otherwise I would gladly use the avisynth script generated by behappy.
So unless someone is willing to test this with/for me, I'm going to try the wave file outputted by DGIndex with Aften .

Edit: and here is the error log dump when I try to load DGIndex's wave file into Aften using BeHappy
Code:
Starting job gotk T01 3_2ch 448Kbps 48KHz.wav->gotk448_d4ff8b6be4ff430f924398ba78df9694.ac3
Error: BeHappy.AviSynthException: AVIFileSource: couldn't open file 'D:\MOVIES\GOTHIKA\D2V\gotk T01 3_2ch 448Kbps 48KHz.wav'
   at BeHappy.AviSynthClip..ctor(String func, String arg, AviSynthColorspace forceColorspace, AviSynthScriptEnvironment env)
   at BeHappy.Encoder.encode()
The odds seem to be all against me don't them?
Cheers
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  #77  
12-14-2006, 09:05 AM
Boulder Boulder is offline
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Then again, if you're doing a DVD, why re-encode the audio at all? The difference in bitrate is very small when you add the extra bits to the video bitrate.
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  #78  
12-14-2006, 09:33 AM
rds_correia rds_correia is offline
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Hi Boulder .
Several reasons for that.
I'll give you 2 good reasons:
1-Many free or low cost authoring tools can only work with movies that are all in the same specs i.e. same resolution, same AR, same audio bitrate, etc...
2-In this case I made my calculations first based on transcoded audio size, which means that I have already encoded the video @ ~6fps considering that the audio will have a certain size.
My current project size exceeds DVD-R specs if that specific audio track remains at 448 instead of the calculated 384.
I know it is only ~44MB that I'm saving with the transcoding but that will be enough for my project to fit on a DVD-R.
I really don't know what else to do, apart from reencoding the video which I am already considering doing .
Maybe I'll wait for reports from ffmpeg mailing list and if they can't solve it I will go for video reencoding.
Cheers
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  #79  
12-14-2006, 10:00 AM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rds_correia
I'm sorry but I just can't understand the logic behind bepipe.
To me it looks like behappy's CLI version.
If I remember well, behappy calls bepipe, but the syntax it sues it erroneous. When I did my test, I manage to find the command that behappy send to bepipe and simply use this command, fix it, and call bepipe myself manually.
That is what I mentionned in the aften thread :
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dialhot
Unfortunally current release has a bug and can't call correctly Aften. The bitrate parameter is given as "-b 448' for instance insteed of "-b 448000". Dizon said that he will see that quicly.
For your problem at 70%, did you try to fix the source ac3 using ac3fix first ? It can have a problem.
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  #80  
12-14-2006, 10:20 AM
Boulder Boulder is offline
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If you can't get BePipe/BeHappy to work, try using BeLight. Decode the ac3 track into a 5.1 wav file and feed that into Aften. I don't know if it matters but disable dialog normalization reduction in BeLight (in the advanced settings).
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