Quantcast Sansgrip Filters: Interesting Aspect Ratio - digitalFAQ.com Forums [Archives]
  #1  
09-14-2004, 03:48 PM
sking1001 sking1001 is offline
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** EDITED ***

After all the dust has cleared here's the results of playing with the King Arthur HD RV10 trailer located at:
http://dark.pluridis.org/trailers/

#1 (Bilinear newbie script)
DirectShowSource("kingarthur.rmvb", fps=23.976)
BiLinearResize(720, 306)
AddBorders(0, 87, 0, 87)

#2 (GripFit)
DirectShowSource("kingarthur.rmvb", fps=23.976)
GripCrop(720, 480, overscan=0, source_anamorphic=true, dest_anamorphic=false)
GripSize(resizer="BicubicResize")
GripBorders()

#3 (FitCD)
#...and the final 16x9 Anamorphic using FitCD Bicubic precise "no cropping"
# -= AviSynth v2.5.4.0 script by FitCD v1.2.1 =-
DirectShowSource("C:\Temp\kingarthur.rmvb", fps=23.976)
BicubicResize(688,400,0,0.6,0,0,856,544)
AddBorders(16,40,16,40)

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  #2  
09-14-2004, 04:07 PM
rds_correia rds_correia is offline
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Hi sking1001,
In order to perform a good comparison, you missed two very important points:
1-These may not be the same frame as you mentioned. Thus that's not a fair comparison .
2-You compare a GripFit anamorphic script with a BiLinear resized non-anamorphic script not a fair comparison again .
Although, at the end of the day, you may be right.
But in order to proove you're right you got to give both scripts the same chances
Cheers
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09-14-2004, 04:25 PM
sking1001 sking1001 is offline
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Okay, thanks Rui...no problem. I will make sure I capture the exact same frame.

Now as for the scripts, are you saying that I should use:
GripCrop(720, 480, overscan=0, source_anamorphic=false, dest_anamorphic=false)?

...that would also be no problem...however, the results are even more drastically different.

Instead, should I change script #1 somehow to make the comparison fair?
Really, the original question in my mind was:
I wonder what the difference between these two is?

Thanks again for the feedback...such a friendly forum
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09-14-2004, 04:37 PM
rds_correia rds_correia is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sking1001
...such a friendly forum
Hi sking1001 ,
I kindly accept the compliment in behalf of the forum
And yes, I think you should post your GripFit picture with dest_anamorphic=false and make it the exact same frame as the BiLinear script.
Then we can start talking about it
Just make sure your BiLinear script is ok.
Load the source in FitCD or Moviestacker just to play safe.
Cheers
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09-14-2004, 05:16 PM
sking1001 sking1001 is offline
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Okay I have edited my first post to include a shot with source_animorphic=false, and all 3 shots are the exact same frame.

The bilinear script looks exactly the same as the original, just a smaller version.
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09-14-2004, 05:46 PM
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sking1001
shots 2 and 3 are from the same frame
but the first shot still with different frame!
...after your new shots of course!
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  #7  
09-14-2004, 05:56 PM
rds_correia rds_correia is offline
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Hi,
Yes, I could almost swear Jorel is right.
Well I suppose he is...
Is he, sking1001?
If he is then you'll really have to post the right screenshot for Bilinear.
BTW GripFit needs to know what kind of resize it will perform.
You told it to do a Bicubic.
So, why compare it to a simple Bilinear?
You know that GripFit is actually cropping/resizing, don't you?
Whereas your Bilinear is only resizing.
Cheers
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09-14-2004, 05:57 PM
sking1001 sking1001 is offline
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Okay, just to be sure, I remove all 3 images from the website, and re-FTP'd all 3 brand new shots of the same frame from 3 seperately encoded movies.

There is now no doubt that they are all 3 the same frame.



Edit: okay Rui, that's another good point...so I assume I just say:
GripSize(resizer="BilinearResize")? I'll try it a bit later and let you know

Thanks again everyone!
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09-14-2004, 06:08 PM
rds_correia rds_correia is offline
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Hi sking,
I'll reemphasize it again:
You know that GripFit is actually cropping/resizing, don't you?
Whereas your Bilinear is only resizing it is not cropping .

That could be a problem
I really can't tell you more because I am not very good at scripting.
I leave that to Moviestacker or FitCD.
Cheers
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09-14-2004, 09:16 PM
sking1001 sking1001 is offline
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Yes, I understand that...sorry I didn't respond to that particular comment in my last post...I was rushing out of the office and only responded to your excellent point that I was using Bicubic with GripFit but comparing with BilinearResize. I guess I did that because I don't really understand Bicubic yet, but the GripFit example I was working with used resizer="BicubicResize", and I have not yet found a concise reference for GripCrop...not even >here<

This has been a great experiment to see what GripFit really does in comparison...part of the outcome being just what you said, GripFit is actually cropping/resizing
I'm sure that the strange source size probably caused GripFit a bit of a fit...understandably so
My naivity led me to believe that GripCrop would not really crop when it didn't have to with GripCrop/GripSize working together asynchronously.

I'll see if I can use Bilinear with GripFit to make a better experimental comparison. The BilinearResize produced the exact results I wanted, but I started on this quest because in the end, I really wanted an anamorphic output so I could author a 16:9 true widescreen, and wasn't sure how to do that with the standard functions besides GripFit...that's my next experiment

...hope I didn't ramble too much...thanks for all the excellent feedback!
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09-15-2004, 04:04 AM
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You are comparing something that crop/resize on mod16 values with a script where you crop/resized with mod1 (720x306 + 87 + 87).
That is all you have to know to understand this "strange" behaviour.

You should never use mod1 borders as you did in bilinear script as this affect the mpeg2 encoder (it works with 8x8 blocks).

And you should also use an overscan=1 or 2 because with overscan=0 you are struggling to not lose any pixels but... these pixels won't be displayed on the TV set !
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09-15-2004, 06:05 AM
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@ Threadstarter

(EDIT: I edited my recent explanation in this post)

You cant directly resize from PAR 1:1 (that source) to your needed 720 x X ! Makes no sense as you everytime should encode PAR 1:1 sources (like yours) at 704, 528,352 widths. You wont see the gain of 720,544 widths on TV as these will go EVEN out of overscan.

If you really want to compare Gripfit with classic resizings, then use FitCD and crop round set to 4 and Resize round set to 16 (which is used in Gripfit IMHO) ... HERE just for comparing!

Youll see that FitCD wont directly resize as you do as it takes into acount all needed PAR/DAR specs!
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09-15-2004, 08:57 AM
sking1001 sking1001 is offline
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Ah...mod1 vs. mod16...of course that is it

...and I will have to play more with this FitCD...at first it gave me green bars on my screen, but I'll have to spend more time with it.

...and I didn't even think about overscan and how much I would actually see on a TV.

You guys are great...thanks so much!

Phil, incredible
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09-15-2004, 10:20 AM
sking1001 sking1001 is offline
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Anybody know what I did wrong with FitCD?

This:
*** IMAGE REMOVED FROM SERVER ***

Yielded this:
*** IMAGE REMOVED FROM SERVER ***
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09-15-2004, 12:04 PM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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Your source is NOT 1280 x 544, is it ?

That is where your error is.
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09-15-2004, 12:36 PM
sking1001 sking1001 is offline
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I was going to say that actually it is, according to >this<

However, at another glance, it says, Resize: Anamorphic ( 856 x 544 )...hmmm.

Originally I verified the resolution directly on the .RMVB file with with AVIcodec.exe, and it also gave 1280*544.
VirtualDub can't bring the .RMVB file directly in, but if I use a one-liner AviSynth script with nothing other than the DirectShowSource() statement, virtual dub tells me it is 856x544...interesting.

Thanks for making me look again, Phil
I'll try that size!

I know I'm probably wearing everyone down, lol...feel free to insult me for such a strange source...
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09-15-2004, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sking1001
I know I'm probably wearing everyone down, lol...feel free to insult me for such a strange source...
Or to thank you to have provided this source for HD trailers !
Very nice to make tests on RV10 material
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  #18  
09-15-2004, 01:03 PM
sking1001 sking1001 is offline
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YES! That was it Phil. I put 856x544 into FitCD and checked anamorphic. I can select "no cropping" and not lose a single pixel...although I'm sure that "accurate" may be a better setting??

To top it off...I can check "Anamorphic" on the destination and I can make a true 16x9 DVD...which was my original problem :)

So here's the bicubic scripts
--------------------------------
Destination fullscreen (nonanamorphic) with "accurate" FitCD setting:
# -= AviSynth v2.5.4.0 script by FitCD v1.2.1 =-
DirectShowSource("C:\Temp\kingarthur.rmvb")
BicubicResize(688,304,0,0.6,4,0,848,544)
AddBorders(16,88,16,88)
#Trim(0,-1).FadeOut(150)

Destination anamorphic with "accurate" FitCD setting:
# -= AviSynth v2.5.4.0 script by FitCD v1.2.1 =-
DirectShowSource("C:\Temp\kingarthur.rmvb")
BicubicResize(688,400,0,0.6,4,0,848,544)
AddBorders(16,40,16,40)
#Trim(0,-1).FadeOut(150)

Destination fullscreen (nonanamorphic) with "no cropping" FitCD setting:
# -= AviSynth v2.5.4.0 script by FitCD v1.2.1 =-
DirectShowSource("C:\Temp\kingarthur.rmvb")
BicubicResize(688,304,0,0.6,0,0,856,544)
AddBorders(16,88,16,88)
#Trim(0,-1).FadeOut(150)

Destination anamorphic with "no cropping" FitCD setting:
# -= AviSynth v2.5.4.0 script by FitCD v1.2.1 =-
DirectShowSource("C:\Temp\kingarthur.rmvb")
BicubicResize(688,400,0,0.6,0,0,856,544)
AddBorders(16,40,16,40)
#Trim(0,-1).FadeOut(150)

* Actually the DirectShowSource("C:\Temp\kingarthur.rmvb") needs to be changed to DirectShowSource("C:\Temp\kingarthur.rmvb", fps=23.976)

No more screen shots as I can simply say that it looks exactly like what I want and I have some really good examples to work with :)

** EDIT **
I have edited my first post with the final screen shots :)

Cheers everyone!
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  #19  
09-15-2004, 04:45 PM
sking1001 sking1001 is offline
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See original post, edit

Phil...thanks...again

P.S.
If anyone gets the sound to encode properly for this particular clip, I would be interested to know.
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  #20  
09-15-2004, 07:20 PM
jorel jorel is offline
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yes, phil is one of the best in the whole world!
....always finding solutions!
and we have lots more here. you got help from they in this thread!
Correia and ink are from the first group too!
( i'm a simple "asker" like you saw)

Quote:
P.S.
If anyone gets the sound to encode properly for this particular clip, I would be interested to know.
let me read the whole thread again cos i was buzzy in portuguese forum and need to read from my last post! i will pm for you about the sound!
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