Quantcast Recording Video: VHS to KDVD?? - digitalFAQ.com Forums [Archives]
  #1  
11-04-2004, 11:22 PM
LeeKuid LeeKuid is offline
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Hello, I wanted to convert my old VHS's tapes to DVD's or KDvd's, but I don't know how.

1) How can I transfer my VHS's to the computer?


I've heard of pc cards, Digitatl VCR's (with a usb connection), and adapters.


2) Which is gives better audio/video quality?

3) Which is the cheapest?

4) Where can I buy them?

Thanks, in advance.
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  #2  
11-04-2004, 11:24 PM
kwag kwag is offline
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Hi LeeKuid,

May I suggest you get a Hauppage Win TV-PVR 250
This way, you can capture at a very high bitrate (~12Mbps), and then transcode to KVCD/KDVD.
You'll LOVE the captured quality
http://www.hauppauge.com/html/wintvpvr250_datasheet.htm

-kwag
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  #3  
11-06-2004, 03:04 PM
nicksteel nicksteel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kwag
Hi LeeKuid,

May I suggest you get a Hauppage Win TV-PVR 250
This way, you can capture at a very high bitrate (~12Mbps), and then transcode to KVCD/KDVD.
You'll LOVE the captured quality
http://www.hauppauge.com/html/wintvpvr250_datasheet.htm

-kwag
I also capture at 12Mbps with Pvr-250 and use rewritable DVD. Which template are you using for KDVD?
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  #4  
11-07-2004, 03:40 AM
LeeKuid LeeKuid is offline
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Hi Kwag, first of all thanks for the fast response.

I wanted to let you know that the main thing why I want to transfer to my pc is my son's first memories. I tried to do this from my Hi8 camcorder using Roxio Easy Media Creator 7, and everything work fine. I noticed that the resolution was 320X240 and it was in avi format.


1) Is there any way to make the resolution higher, by either using another program or transferring the video some other way?

2) Is transferring the video as mpeg better, if so how can I do this?


I also found out about a Dazzle Digital Video Creator that it has a chip that converts video to DVD quality.


3) Would the Dazzle be a better choice than the Hauppage Win TV-PVR 250, why or why not?


Thanks, and sorry for all the questions.
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  #5  
11-07-2004, 03:52 AM
Boulder Boulder is offline
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I've used my PVR-250 very actively since I bought it last year and it's a very good card for capturing. You should definitely consider buying one.

However, I don't like the filtering it does by default so I've disabled them all (I use WinTVCap which uses an ini file for settings) and do all the filtering in the avs script.
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  #6  
11-09-2004, 10:39 AM
LeeKuid LeeKuid is offline
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Hello, you guys say that the Pvr-250 can capture at 12Mbps.

1) What is the resolution at 12Mbps?

2) Can you really tell the difference between 8Mbit/sec, and 12Mbit/sec?

3) Is there a cheaper card that does about the same that the Pvr-250 can do?
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  #7  
11-09-2004, 10:54 AM
Boulder Boulder is offline
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The resolution can be basically any of the VCD, half-D1, SVCD or DVD resolutions. The difference between 12Mbit/s and 8Mbit/s can probably be seen during a high motion scene. The datarate is adjustable so you can choose just about anything between 0-12Mbit/s, VBR can also be used.
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  #8  
11-09-2004, 11:00 AM
incredible incredible is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeeKuid
3) Is there a cheaper card that does about the same that the Pvr-250 can do?
Not with onboard mpeg2 hardware encoder capabilities, as thats the goal from that card.
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  #9  
11-09-2004, 11:02 AM
kwag kwag is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeeKuid
3) Is there a cheaper card that does about the same that the Pvr-250 can do?
At this time, I don't think so.

Edit: I posted (again) too slow

-kwag
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  #10  
11-09-2004, 12:31 PM
the viking the viking is offline
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Hi,after some reading here I see you were talking about
capturing at 12Mbit/s,I guess this is capturing "directly" to MPEG2???

And I also had a look at the options on my PinnacleDC10plus card,
there I have range from 500 to 6000 kbytes/sec.
(This card don't capture to mpeg).

When I capture I use 3300 kbytes/sec. and res. 768x576,
this give a filesize app. 10GB pr. hour. including PCM audio.
The encoded video looks great.

Should I use full datarate(6000kbytes/sec) when capturing,
or is it just waste of HD space??

Thanks
------------------
viking
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  #11  
11-09-2004, 01:39 PM
Boulder Boulder is offline
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I'd go for max if I had the diskspace to do it And yes, PVR-250 captures directly to MPEG-2.
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  #12  
11-09-2004, 03:40 PM
the viking the viking is offline
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Ok,
so from here I capture at full datarate,
full resolution and to make it DVD compatible,
capture audio at 48kHz.

Just a theoretical question at last,will the avisynth scripts work just as
good with standard DVD matrix and a cbr of 8000 as they do
with KDVD matrix?,or are they "designed" for the matrix?
(maybe a offtopic/stupid question )

-----------------
viking
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  #13  
11-09-2004, 03:49 PM
incredible incredible is offline
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Well, the DC Series do have an excellent mjpeg hardware encoder on board as they where/are sold as semi professional capture cards.

Keep in mind that mjpeg is like mpeg but in YUY2 AND like "I" Frame only while CBR capturing.

So a professional Studiostream can be found beside some others as

- Betacam SX (Mpeg-2 @18 MBit/s)

- Betacam IMX (Mpeg-2@ 50 MBit/s)

And all these are "I" Frame only as thats needed for frame acurate cutting and also CBR is used.

Betacam SX already is quite lossy as "I" Frame only would need much more bitrate.
So Betacam IMX at 50Mbit/s is a mega HQ Studio way of digitizing.

Now your DC10 (or mine DC30) are able to capture at 6000/kbytes per second using a very good Zoran/Philips chip.

6000*8 = 48000
48000/1024 = ca. 47Mbit/s!! And that at 4:2:2 YUY2! (PVR 250 mpeg2@MainProfile uses 4:2:0 YV12, Digi Betacam uses mpeg2 4:2:2 profile!)

So the VERY big potential of that card is just by 20% used if using for digitizing "TV Sheep-crap"
The only disadvantage is that this card doesnt got component Inputs like the mega expansive Targa system (in the past).
But s-video connection (means Y/C separated) at least is a very good quality mode/connection.

So this card can even be used to digitize streams provided by a Betacam SP Device and that was the standard some years ago in broadcasting editing services.

See the point? Thats why you should everytime "smile" when looking at this card.

A friend of mine (from whom I got my DC30) used that one on a MAC for preparing/cutting video jobs to give them to the WDR afterwards (West German Broadcasting Station).

BUT! 3300kbytes/s when capturing 768x576 is at the limit!
Why? Cause even if TV Signal is crap (in relation) and even its less detailed - on the other hand its much more complex cause of uneasy components like noise! And if you would inspect your stream very carefully at 200%-400% Zoom in Vdub you already can see some artifacts, cause mjpeg needs much more bitrate then mpeg2 when using B and P Frames.
And thats the goal from mjpeg as its like I frame only, means now extra compression-lossy-routines given like predicted and Bidirectional frame algorhythms (P / B). Give it room to breath and an excellent signal as input and you can see the difference.



BTW: We talked at gleitz forum about that Picvideo3 YV12 issue!
It seems that avisource() from avisynth 2.5x on uses as default a request of a YV12 stream. And if the codec is able to provide that, then the picvideo3 internally changes the colorpspace to YV12.

Now that Pixel_Type="YUY2" workout "could" be the solution, ... IF Its proofed that picvideo3 REALLY doesnt change the colorspace by that!
But if he again re converts the conversion to YUY2 again, that would be a mess!

So I personally would stay with picvideo2 till that is proofen not to be the thruth
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  #14  
11-09-2004, 04:30 PM
the viking the viking is offline
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Thanks for the info., Inc.
This is very interesting stuff.

Seems like the card is ok then.
Im capturing a clip right now with full data rate that ill encode
to see the difference from 3300kbytes.
The main reason I bought the card was to capture 9(!)
cassettes that I recorded with a SVHS-C camera.The camera is
outdated(made in 199 ,and I don't use it anymore.
I replaced with a mini-DV camera.(Panasonic NV-GS 50).
So I use S-Video input when capturing from the old camera.
But when capturing from VHS,I use composite,since my vcr don't
have s-video output.
The reasom why I used 3300kbytes,was that,as you said,broadcasted
stuff is crap more or less,and VHS is a poor format.
But I see that now,as we want to get the absolutely best quality and
most of the details,we need max. data rate.(still learning )

About the PICvideo codec,last week I formatted my pc,reinstalled
everything,and installed Picv 3 codec,
and tried DirectShowSource() and AviSource()
and they report YUY2 for Dirshow() and YV12 for AviSource().

When playback the video in WMP using DirectShowSource()
the colors are clearer/stronger than when I use AviSource().
But that can be a vfw / wdm issue as you said earlier.
Ill make a try with "Pixel_Type="YUY2"" .
I think I got PICv 2 somewhere on my HD so ill make a test.

----------------------
viking
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  #15  
11-09-2004, 04:42 PM
incredible incredible is offline
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Quote:
When playback the video in WMP using DirectShowSource()
the colors are clearer/stronger than when I use AviSource().
MAKE A TEST using picvideo3!!:

Do use this cript:

Code:
a=avisource("yourcapture.avi").subtitle("avisource untouched",10,10)
b=avisource("yourcapture.avi",pixel_type="YUY2").subtitle("avisource pixel_type=YUY2",10,10)
c=directshowsource("yourcapture.avi").subtitle("via directshow",10,10)

d=stackvertical(a,b)
stackvertical(d,c)
Open it in Vdub and safe it in Vdub using "shift-1" .... make a jpeg or PNG from it and post it here! *please!!!!*
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  #16  
11-09-2004, 05:06 PM
the viking the viking is offline
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I did as you said but got this error from VDub:

AviSynth open failure:
StackVertical:image formats don't match

---------------------------
viking
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  #17  
11-10-2004, 03:06 AM
Boulder Boulder is offline
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They don't fit because they don't have the same colorspace. You'll have to open each part on its own (a, b and c) and take a screenshot of the same frame, try to take it from a scene with a lot of red for example. I recommend using PNG since it's a lossless format.
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  #18  
11-10-2004, 04:02 AM
incredible incredible is offline
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Quote:
hey don't fit because they don't have the same colorspace.
Thats when scripting fast out of mind
:banghead:
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  #19  
11-10-2004, 04:16 AM
the viking the viking is offline
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Good Morning!
I left out the stackvertical stuff and used a,b,c script lines one by one.








And heres the PICvideo3 settings(default):



---------------------
viking

EDIT by Incredible:
I changed the preview of Vikings "orig"! pics to JPG converted ones on my server so the loading of this post becomes faster than when PNGs are used
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  #20  
11-10-2004, 05:42 AM
incredible incredible is offline
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@ Viking and all Picvideo3 users ...

It seems that this issue "could" be solved:

I over-layered Vikings pics in Photoshop and used the "Difference" Mode in the Layer view.

This is the result ...





SO.... If Pixel_Type="YUY2" is used in avsisource() it seems that the picvideo3 decoder is FORCED to provide the original encoded YUY2 state.
If just Avisource() is used without flags, then Avisource() forces the Picvideo3 decoder to provide a to YV12 colorspace converted stream.

Conclusion for me: Avisource("X:\xxxxxx.avi", Pixel_Type="YUY2") when using Picvideo3 is the way to go ... IMHO
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