Quantcast Recording Video: Dropped Frames and Audio Sync Errors! - digitalFAQ.com Forums [Archives]
  #1  
01-04-2005, 02:15 PM
the viking the viking is offline
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A few days ago I read somewhere that if my capture device dropped frames,ill get audio out of sync.
So ill run a program called EndItAll2 to kill all processes dont needed
on the PC,connected my VCR to the DC10Plus capture card,capture resolution sat to 768x576,datarate max 6000kbytes/sec and started
capturing a 1hour 40minutes long TV show recorded some days earlier.
The total number of dropped frames was 23,and the dropped frames
was spread over the whole movie lenght.Final captured filesize was 34,6GB!.But I cant notice any audiosync anywhere in the capture,so I wonder,does the soundcard also drop frames to keep the audio in sync??
I read that some card do that.When I capture,the audio goes through
the soundcard,as there is no audio-in connection on the capture card.
The sound card is Realtek AC97.
And another question,is it possible to get 0 dropped frames when capturing from VHS tape??A very theoretical question!
But 23 dropped frames out of 150279 shouldnt be bad I guess.
I like to hear some opinions from the experts here about these issues!

Thanks
--------------
viking

Pinnacle DC10Plus



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  #2  
01-04-2005, 03:40 PM
Latexxx Latexxx is offline
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Try virtualdub for capturing. It could be better.
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  #3  
01-04-2005, 05:29 PM
kwag kwag is offline
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Or "VirtualDub Sync"
http://www-user.rhrk.uni-kl.de/~dittrich/sync/

-kwag
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  #4  
01-04-2005, 05:47 PM
Encoder Master Encoder Master is offline
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Is this the best choise to capture movies?
Before I've capture with the normal VDub Version. Does I have to choose some other options as in the normal version?
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  #5  
01-04-2005, 06:03 PM
kwag kwag is offline
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VirtualDub Sync and AVI_IO http://www.nct.ch/multimedia/avi_io/ are the best for captures.

-kwag
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  #6  
01-05-2005, 03:53 AM
Encoder Master Encoder Master is offline
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OK, I will test this programms. Thanks, kwag.
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  #7  
01-05-2005, 04:11 AM
incredible incredible is offline
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If working on a system higher than Win98 then the DC10 or DC30 Dirvers are WDM Drivers! an so not recognised by Vdub even not via the Wrapper. The latest Vdub version is Dshow and so WDM cpable BUT still not stable (in my testings many crashes).

You should get VirtualVCR as it comes with ALL you need! The hardware mjpeg encoder on your card is supported and it also gots a nice audioresampling support so your streams result in 25.000 perfectly in sync.
So VirtualVCR is you first choice.

Related to you "insync" results even if framedrops did occur, here my guess: Do look at the resulted framerate of your captures and studio8/9 Im shure theyre NOT 25.000 but something like 24.992 or so. Means the Videoplayback speed is adjusted to match audio lenght. And VirtualVCR or Vdub do resample the audio to result in pure 25.000 insync

Again, get rid of studio8/9 and do your capturing in VirtualVCR.

AVI_IO supports the DCseries directly but only at Win98 via vfw drivers (same as Vdub) and its not free *imho*
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  #8  
01-05-2005, 05:58 AM
the viking the viking is offline
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Thanks for the replies.

VDub/Mod/Sync etc. dont "like" my capture card as Inc. says.
I havent tried the latest version,I guess you mean v. 1.6.2.experimental.

And yes,I played one of my captured clip in Media Player Classic,
and it reports 24.94 average viewed pictures.

But I played also a DV capture with 0 dropped frames,still not
reporting 25.00 fps.

Ill make some tests with VirtualVCR.

--------------------------------
viking
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  #9  
01-05-2005, 07:50 AM
incredible incredible is offline
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If you dont need multi segemnt capturing then you also dont need Vdub.
VVCR directly requests the mjpeg compressed stream given by your DC10! The Audio which comes from your soundcard will be handled as usual by VVCR, means you could force the audio to be encoded but I wouldnt do that. Just do set in VVCR in the audio section "Resample Audio dynamically" and thats it! for 25.000 resulting Streams

You can set the Res. in VVCR to 768x576, 384x576, 384x328 as these are the PAL Res. The DC Driver provides. In FitCD 768x576 will be recognised corretly, but 384x576 streams ahve to be set as "NON ITU"!! in Fitcd in combination with the 352x576 source! option then the resizing to your prefered traget res. will be correct.

It sounds odd that you got dropped frames when using the DC10 with its hardare onboard compression!

Maybe ...

- defragment your capture HD (5400rpm HDs are enough so thats not the issue)
- Change the PCI slot for your DC10
- Deactivate all options in the EnergySafing contral panel

Or you do capture from VHS where the dropped frames are a result of the bad timing Syncs which is normal when capturing from a Standard VCR (without Time base correction option). But the audio dynamically resampling option in VVCR does compensate that.

In VVCR in the statisctics Window while capturing the 1.st Line for reporting dropped frames is not importand as these dropped frames are due syncing at the very beginning, so dont worry. What couts is the 2.nd dropped frames line where actual dropped frames will be reported. Keep that in mind
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  #10  
01-05-2005, 09:25 AM
the viking the viking is offline
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I had a look at VVCR and it looks Ok.
I also spendt some time searching/browsing for the audio out of sync issue,on "video places" and pinnacle support sites.
But anyway there must be some internal fix for this in pinnacle,since
I dont see any delay in the captured file with dropped frames,not in the
encoded mpeg2 file and finally not in the authored DVD,when playing
on my SAP.
Even if the number of dropped frames are low,I think my eyes should have noticed the delay??Cause when I make a .d2v project file
with DVD2AVI,it often come out with a delay of 50ms,and its no probs
seeing that delay on playback.
I also did a test cap. with a videocassette I knew had a bad spot,
that one dropped 28 frames on that spot,but on playback on PC
and TV,the audio was in sync both before and after the spot.

Forget what I wrote in my last reply,I was referring to video renderer
properties in MPC,wich tells average showed pictures,that one never
shows 25fps,at least not on my system, ,even if I play a
retail DVD.
So do you know any tools that can tell me if the video is 24,96 or 25,00fps??

My capture HD is 160GB WD 7200rpm,4 months old,so that one is ok.
All energysaving stuff is deactivated and I disconnect from the internet,
stop Anti-Virus,firewalls and all other processes that I dont need.

Yep,I capture from VHS.
But when I capture from my DV-cam,through firewire connection,
its always 0 dropped frames.So I guess the dropped frames is caused
by bad sources.

EDIT:I took the mentioned cap. file into VDub Mod and separated
the audio from the video,both the .avi and the .wav file reported the same length;1:40:16.
--------------------------
viking
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  #11  
01-05-2005, 09:46 AM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the viking
Yep,I capture from VHS.
But when I capture from my DV-cam,through firewire connection,
its always 0 dropped frames.So I guess the dropped frames is caused
by bad sources.
I think the problem is more related to jittering reading speed of VHS player that aren't abble to read exactly at 25 fps (or an other fps) for a long time.
For sur, with a DV camera you do'nt have this.
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  #12  
01-05-2005, 10:45 AM
incredible incredible is offline
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Quote:
I also spendt some time searching/browsing for the audio out of sync issue,on "video places" and pinnacle support sites.
But anyway there must be some internal fix for this in pinnacle,since
I dont see any delay in the captured file with dropped frames,not in the
encoded mpeg2 file and finally not in the authored DVD,when playing
on my SAP.
Well anyhow .... do use VVCR as it gots more options! and its used by many people like me too so you can expect a bigger support. And its known to be beside Vdub as an application which do provide exact 25.000fps insync captures.

Quote:
So do you know any tools that can tell me if the video is 24,96 or 25,00fps??
Just look into the Informations tab in VdubMod and theres everything which is useful as you anyway can use VdubMod for cutting which is able to export the cuts in vdub to avisynths trim()'s in the script editor above right in the menue bar. Just move into your script and choose "Import Framesets as Trims" ... voilá.

Quote:
EDIT:I took the mentioned cap. file into VDub Mod and separated
the audio from the video,both the .avi and the .wav file reported the same length;1:40:16.
Yep, thats what Studio 8/9 does. Both streams do have the same lenght cause the fps in the header of the video is decreased so it matches the audio playback length. And thats what playback or encoding apps do, they look into the avi header to see how fast a video has to be played back (fps).

Quote:
My capture HD is 160GB WD 7200rpm,4 months old,so that one is ok.
All energysaving stuff is deactivated and I disconnect from the internet,
stop Anti-Virus,firewalls and all other processes that I dont need.

Yep,I capture from VHS.
As I assumed above thats the guilty one for dropped frames as Std. VCR's do not include Time Base Correction.
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  #13  
01-05-2005, 11:51 AM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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TBC, that was the word I was looking for
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  #14  
01-05-2005, 12:21 PM
the viking the viking is offline
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This is the info given in the info tab of VDub Mod:


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As you can see,video lenght is 1:40:16.32 while audio is 1:40:16.00,
as far as I understand this should cause "visible" sync. problems,
but for some reason they dont.

But another question,if I have a capture that is 24,97 fps,
and encoding it in TMPGEnc with 25fps,will TMPGEnc speed the video
file up to 25fps or will it encode as is??

A lot of teoretical questions on one day maybe?

-------------------------
viking
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  #15  
01-05-2005, 12:30 PM
Boulder Boulder is offline
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I'm quite positive TMPGEnc will speed it up accordingly because the standard requires a specific framerate and there's just the few settings for framerate in the program.
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  #16  
01-05-2005, 12:32 PM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the viking
As you can see,video lenght is 1:40:16.32 while audio is 1:40:16.00,
as far as I understand this should cause "visible" sync. problems,
but for some reason they dont.
You never have the two that match exactly ! Thi sis probably due to rounding in the calc (frames number / fps + convertion into hh:mm:ss.cc).

Quote:
and encoding it in TMPGEnc with 25fps,will TMPGEnc speed the video
file up to 25fps or will it encode as is??
Tmpgenc does what you ask it to ! So it speed the movie.
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  #17  
01-05-2005, 12:43 PM
the viking the viking is offline
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Dialhot wrote:
Quote:
You never have the two that match exactly ! Thi sis probably due to rounding in the calc (frames number / fps + convertion into hh:mm:ss.cc).
Yeah I found out that,I opened between 10 and 20 files last hour,and
they all have the audio lenght rounded to a whole second.

And all files reports 25 fps in VDub Mod. so there will be no speed
in TMPGEnc.

--------------------
viking
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  #18  
01-05-2005, 06:49 PM
digitall.doc digitall.doc is offline
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Sorry me for jumping in here, with a question that maybe is not holy related with the subject... but as I found quite interesting the thread...

Does VirtualVCR work with Pinnacle MovieBox DV?.

I could install the app and see, but I have so many utils installed that I'm afraid some day my system will become instable (it will anyway... ) and will have to format and... buff.

Thanx, and keep on the interesting thread (if people like me let you )
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  #19  
01-06-2005, 03:40 AM
incredible incredible is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by digitall.doc
Does VirtualVCR work with Pinnacle MovieBox DV?.
If it comes with a WDM Device driver then maybe yes. Also do look on the www for an actual wdm driver of your DV device.

Quote:
I could install the app and see, but I have so many utils installed that I'm afraid some day my system will become instable (it will anyway... ) and will have to format and... buff.
I got my PC full of utils and stuff since 1 1/2 Years and got NO Problems.
I even changed the motherboard a few weeks ago (same nforce2 architecture but diff. brand!) ... still everything works well.

If I would install a system from scratch I would do it the following way:

- Installing the System and all Apps you need (yep a pain in the ass)
- If everything is ok, then use TrueImage from Actronis (or so) to make a compressed partition backup of your C:/ Drive. This you can burn incl. a Boot Recover Routine on a DVD-R.
So if sometime a corrupt system is the case then just overwrite the C:/ Prtition with that DVD-R Autobooting recovery TrueImage Appl.
20minutes and you have a FRESH system
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  #20  
01-06-2005, 10:42 AM
digitall.doc digitall.doc is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by incredible
If it comes with a WDM Device driver then maybe yes. Also do look on the www for an actual wdm driver of your DV device.
I don't know Inc, that's why I was asking...

Quote:
Originally Posted by incredible
If I would install a system from scratch I would do it the following way:

- Installing the System and all Apps you need (yep a pain in the ass)
- If everything is ok, then use TrueImage from Actronis (or so) to make a compressed partition backup of your C:/ Drive. This you can burn incl. a Boot Recover Routine on a DVD-R.
So if sometime a corrupt system is the case then just overwrite the C:/ Prtition with that DVD-R Autobooting recovery TrueImage Appl.
20minutes and you have a FRESH system
Nice tip. I guess that if I have to reinstall, I'll do as you advise... after the 1-2 months it will take me to reinstall everything again, and working OK
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