Quantcast KVCD: Best Trade-Off Between CQ, Filters, Resolution? - digitalFAQ.com Forums [Archives]
06-19-2003, 05:53 AM
lordsnow lordsnow is offline
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I've been messing around with KVCD for the past two weeks, just encoding a few DVDs I have here, using various options and seeing what the result looks like.

I've been using Red M's guide as a... uhm... guide.

Now I have a few questions:

1. Is Moviestacker a load of cr@p, or am I doing something wrong?

It doesn't seem to recognise a load of filters. Or rather, it only recognises filters it has listed. Which wouldn't be bad, if it weren't for the fact that any time you change *anything* it updates the file, and removes anything it doesn't recognise!!! Moviestacker is a huge pain in the arse. So much so, I've been forced to use Notepad to write the .avs files. Much simpler, and things just don't suddenly disappear on me!

2. Can't seem to use arbitrary resolutions in TMPEG

Somewhere it says that the resolution has to be a multiple of 16. Even when that is the case I have a difficult time picking a resolution which TMPEG will accept. Why is that?

3. What is an .avs file? What's the purpose of AviSynth?

The .avs files are loaded by TMPEG. But it's actually an AviSynth file? From what I can gather, AviSynth is a frameserver. I have installed AviSynth but noticed there's no exe in it's install folder. Am I right in assuming that it's installed in the Windows folder somewhere, and always running in the background, and when an avi is played it 'feeds' it to TMPEG? The filters mentioned in the .avs files are used by AviSynth, and NOT by TMPEG? (as I noticed that TMPEG has filters of its own, which can be used, but loading an .avs file never selects or sets those).

4. Why not use the filters in TMPEG?

A follow-up question from the one above.

5. Time for an all-in-one program!?

To make a KVCD you have to use (small) parts of about 4 or 5 different programs. This seems rather inneficient. Not to mention extremely confusing. Red M suggests certain settings for the various programs, but doens't mention what they are and why. What are the advantages of the chosen settings, and what would happen if other settings are chosen?

6. How can I retain picture quality? CQ vs resolution vs filters

I have encoded "Below" at 528x576 with CQ at 50, to fit it on one CD. The results were 'satisfactory', but I would like some better quality - a sharper picture, and less blockiness in the background.

What would be the best way to achive that - increase the resolution to add more details? Remove some/all filters to get rid of blurriness? Or increase CQ for more quality?

To put it another way, I want to put the movie on two CD's. I have a normal TV - what would be the best trade-off for picture quality between CQ, filters, and resolution?

7. Why use bbMPEG to mux the audio and video - why not TMPEG?

Maybe a stupid question because I'm a newbie at this, but why use another extra program (bbMPEG) to put the audio and video back together when TMPEG can do this as well?
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Someday, 12:01 PM
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06-24-2003, 12:33 AM
racerocks racerocks is offline
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I've made lots of kvcd's in the last few months, and yet I don't know the answer to any of your questions. (I've never used AviSynth, or bbMpeg either.)
Hope someone answers them.
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06-24-2003, 10:46 AM
JoZ JoZ is offline
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  1. You are doing something wrong!
  2. Use kvcd templates.
  3. http://www.avisynth.org/
  4. Use them, why not. It's easier to do it via avs. Simple huh?
  5. Because we like the hard way. You can use Tok for almost all-in-one.
  6. You need more reading and practice. Use Moviestacker.
  7. Use it. Very often you are getting desync but ... if you don't mind...
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06-24-2003, 10:50 AM
Jellygoose Jellygoose is offline
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First of all: Lots of questions... If you're really interested, come here and read... and read... and read...

Q1: Moviestacker only supports AviSynth 2.0x and not AviSynth 2.5x, I personally just use it, to get correct resizing values. It's not bad to use the notepad to edit your AVS script, and NO Moviestacker is not a bunch of crap, it's a very useful tool for both, beginners and advanced users!

Q2: Use Moviestacker to get correct resizing values or use GripFit which is a resizing Filter for AviSynth. Yes resolution should be a multiple of 16. All supported resolutions you can find in MovieStacker! (VCD, SVCD, XVCD...)

Q3: Yes AviSynth is a frameserver for TMPGEnc, and you can not only frameserve, but also resize, and add filters to your script, which should have an .avs extension. You don't need an executable. If TMPGEnc recognizes your AVS scripts, it should be installed correctly.

Q4: In general, the AviSynth filters are superior in quality over the internal TMPGEnc filters! that's why we use those.

Q5: Feel free to write a new "All in One Program" which is efficient enough!
Seriously you should try ToK! It's pretty efficient for File Prediction, and after that you only have to encode audio and mux manually. Then your KVCD is done!

Q6: Use File Prediction and target for 2 CDs. This will automatically calculate the right CQ for you. Also use the latest script from the Optimal Script Forum! that should provide you with superb quality. You can also try to go for 704x576 resolution (I suppose you live in a PAL area).
Removing all filters is not a very good idea though, as it will decrease compression too much!

Q7: Very simple: BBMPEG is simply better for muxing VBR sources, and produces video and audio in synch, while there have been many problems reported by people using TMPGEnc to mux their video!

Hope this helps!
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06-29-2003, 05:56 PM
racerocks racerocks is offline
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I still don't get it.
I'm using DVD Decrypter, DVD2AVI, and TMPGEnc with the KVCD plus templates to produce movies on one CD (352x240) or 2 CD's (704 x 480). The movies play great without using AVISynth or BBMPEG. What advantage would I get using those programs?
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06-29-2003, 09:14 PM
dazedconfused dazedconfused is offline
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Originally Posted by racerocks
I still don't get it.
I'm using DVD Decrypter, DVD2AVI, and TMPGEnc with the KVCD plus templates to produce movies on one CD (352x240) or 2 CD's (704 x 480). The movies play great without using AVISynth or BBMPEG. What advantage would I get using those programs?
Hi racerocks, the advantage you'd get is a great-looking ~2-hour movie fit onto just 1 CD WITH a resolution of 704x480 (or maybe 528/544x480 for some). No need to split it onto 2 discs or use a low blurry-looking resolution like 352x240 to fit it onto 1 cd. That's the advantage of the Avisynth part of it...using great filters that can clean up ugly material for you and/or give you a big compression gain.

Audio created with TMPG sounds "tinny" (in other words, like metallic crud) if you use low bitrates like 128 or 112kbps (possibly even 160). But using a lower audio bitrate leaves you much more space for better-looking video quality....and for most people, the ear is more easily fooled than the eye. So you use HeadAC3he to create great-sounding low bitrate audio (128 or 112kbps) because it still sounds better than or equal to audio created by TMPG @192kbps. Then you mux that audio together with your video with BBMPEG because it's simply the best muxer in the business. It does a better job of muxing than TMPG's muxer (creating more compliant files that work better on more peoples' dvd players). BBMPEG also lets you define a certain beggining and ending time to mux from/to. So for example if you want to cut off the end/start credits of a movie, all you have to do is tell BBMPEG to start muxing from point A to point B, and it will do it for you. BBMPEG also lets you define how many Megabytes you want your file to be, so if you're working on a 2-disc encode, you could just tell BBMPEG that you want it to be split at the 795MB(or whatever) mark, and it'll do it for you on the fly! Those are the benefits of using BBMPEG over TMPG's muxing tools.

If you're happy enough with your current methods and don't mind splitting your movies onto 2 discs instead of 1 (or using a low resolution on a 1-disc encode instead of 704x480 or 528/544x480), then stick with what works for you. But I'm affraid you won't really know what you're missing out on unless you try it out for yourself or download some of the samples posted around here. It's definetly worth the effort to learn how to do KVCD the right way...the results speak for themselves. Personally, I will NEVER encode any other way ever again! (well ...I shouldn't say never I guess...but you get the point )

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06-29-2003, 09:37 PM
jorel jorel is offline
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this was great.

i never understand how you call yourself as

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07-01-2003, 12:03 AM
racerocks racerocks is offline
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Thanks, that's pretty clear. Now I just have to figure out how to do it. (and what works with my player) Ah well, back to the drawing board...
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