Quantcast Encoding my First KVCD! - digitalFAQ.com Forums [Archives]
  #1  
06-29-2003, 05:18 PM
dredj dredj is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 48
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Hello,

I'm new here and glad I found this site through vcdhelp.com. First of all before I post my questions, i'd like to tell you what basically i'm planning to do.

- I'm planning to transfer all my Son's VHS tapes (Barney, Blues Clues & Thomas Train) to XVCD, I can't do SVCD as my Sony Player don't support it.

- I capture the VHS movie to my PC using my SOny TRV50 DV Cam acting as passthrough and using the firewire of course. The software that I am using is DVIO, and I believe it capture at 720x480 resolution @ 29.97 fps.

Now here are my questions:

1. What Optimal Script should I use, the "for DVD and clean Material script" or the "for VHS", If you're going to tell me to use the VHS script, what version of AVISynth should I use, 2.5 or 2.0 ?

2. Can I use the "for DVD and clean Material script instead and add what's in VHS script that are not on the DVD and clean material script?

3. Now here's the problem I am experiencing....every time I tried to encode the movie (to mpeg1) using either 720x480 or anything that are 480 resolutions, combing effect exist on the final video, but if I use 240 lines (example 352x240), this thing disappear. Any idea?

4. I already made a sample kvcd, following the avi to kvcd guide and using the "dvd and clean material script", 352x240 CQ 90, the output is okay but a little blurry, and i feel a little dizzy when ther is a movement (Barney have lots of dancing). Also, the video seems to be missing some brigthness, contrast and gamma. And lastly the kvcd process crop the video size and I can see those black borders on my 40" TV set as well as the white scanning line at the bottom, is there a way that I can remove them, I can see that in TMPGEnc it uses the Videao Arrange Method=Center...can I change that to full screen (keep aspect ratio) ?

5. Lastly, is there a benefit if I increase the min bitrate from 300 to say around 600 or 900 or 1200 ?

My Apology for a very long post and lot's of question, I was hoping I can get an answer here as some of them I actually posted them to vcdhelp but did not get any response. So once again, I apologize for a very long post.

Many Thanks.
Dredj
Reply With Quote
Someday, 12:01 PM
admin's Avatar
Site Staff / Ad Manager
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 42
Thanks: ∞
Thanked 42 Times in 42 Posts
  #2  
06-29-2003, 06:22 PM
kwag kwag is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Puerto Rico, USA
Posts: 13,537
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by dredj

Now here are my questions:

1. What Optimal Script should I use, the "for DVD and clean Material script" or the "for VHS", If you're going to tell me to use the VHS script, what version of AVISynth should I use, 2.5 or 2.0 ?
Hi dredj, and welcome.
You should try the current adaptive script for AviSynth 2.52. The way it works now, it might just be a swiss army knife, even for VHS captures
Do a small encode, and see if the quality is ok. If it's still very noisy, you can add "SpaceDust()" or "PixieDust()" filter.
Quote:

2. Can I use the "for DVD and clean Material script instead and add what's in VHS script that are not on the DVD and clean material script?
Try the above.
Quote:

3. Now here's the problem I am experiencing....every time I tried to encode the movie (to mpeg1) using either 720x480 or anything that are 480 resolutions, combing effect exist on the final video, but if I use 240 lines (example 352x240), this thing disappear. Any idea?
I'm not sure if thoes episodes are telecined. If they are, and the originals are FILM (23.976FPS), you need to Inverse Telecine them so you can encode at 23.975 instead of 29.97fps. Search the forum for IVTC, Telecide() and Decimate(), and read here http://www.inmatrix.com/articles/ivtcsynth1.shtml
Quote:

4. I already made a sample kvcd, following the avi to kvcd guide and using the "dvd and clean material script", 352x240 CQ 90, the output is okay but a little blurry, and i feel a little dizzy when ther is a movement (Barney have lots of dancing). Also, the video seems to be missing some brigthness, contrast and gamma. And lastly the kvcd process crop the video size and I can see those black borders on my 40" TV set as well as the white scanning line at the bottom, is there a way that I can remove them, I can see that in TMPGEnc it uses the Videao Arrange Method=Center...can I change that to full screen (keep aspect ratio) ?
Use 1 block-TV overscan. You probably had it set to 2 blocks-TV overscan. If with 1 block you still see black borders on the sides of your TV, set it to 0.
Quote:

5. Lastly, is there a benefit if I increase the min bitrate from 300 to say around 600 or 900 or 1200 ?
Only if your player doesn't support going down to 300. If it plays fine with a MIN of 300, leave it there. If you increase it, you'll fit less time on each CD.
Quote:

My Apology for a very long post and lot's of question, I was hoping I can get an answer here as some of them I actually posted them to vcdhelp but did not get any response. So once again, I apologize for a very long post.

Many Thanks.
Dredj


-kwag
Reply With Quote
  #3  
06-29-2003, 06:36 PM
dredj dredj is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 48
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Hi Kwag,

Many thanks for your response, now with regards to telecine, I don't think it is telecine, but anyway I will read on the link that you gave me and see if it's a telecine.

One other question, how about the bluriness (like out of focus) and I feel a little dizzy when there was some movements (not sure what to call it)...any idea how to remove that?

Again thanks.
Dredj
Reply With Quote
  #4  
06-29-2003, 07:21 PM
kwag kwag is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Puerto Rico, USA
Posts: 13,537
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
That's probably related to the optimal script on low resolutions. To tell you the truth, I have only tested it on higher resolutions (352x480, 528x480 and 704x480 )
So maybe the treshold has to be increased for lower resolutions

The current script is this:

ScriptClip("nf = YDifferenceToNext()"+chr(13)+ "nf > 2 ? \
unfilter( -(fmin(round((nf/0.5)), 100)), -(fmin(round((nf/0.5)), 100)) ) : \
TemporalSoften(4, round(1/nf) , round(3/nf) ,0, 2) ")

Try increasing the value in bold (2) to 4 or 5, and see how it works. The higher the number, the higher the movement needed to start blurring the picture.

-kwag
Reply With Quote
  #5  
06-29-2003, 07:35 PM
dredj dredj is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 48
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanks again Kwag, I will try first to do IVTC, and using 528x480 and see if the combing effects will be gone, if not then I guess I have to stick to 352x240 and just play around the value that you had mentioned.

Thanks and I'll let you know what will happen.

Dredj
Reply With Quote
  #6  
06-29-2003, 08:15 PM
dredj dredj is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 48
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Hi Kwag, just an update..I updated the script and added the IVTC...I also tried adding spacedust or pixiedust filter, but then again it's giving me an error that the dustv5.dll is not an avisynth 2.5 filter...I check out the list of filters from this site (where i downloaded the filters) and there are no Dust filter listed on version 2.5 only on 2.0.

Now as I am looking at the encoded sample (faster prdecition is running now), looks like the combing effect was already gone.

So my next thing to worry now is the blurry. I also have concerned about the brightness but I have to wait for the IVTC result as it looks like it also fix the brightness problem.

Once again many thanks for all your support.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
06-30-2003, 12:51 AM
dredj dredj is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 48
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
OKay, just did an IVTC, well I was amaze as it fix the brightness problem...the result is now similar to when I was watching the VHS from my DV Cam while capturing it, but then again looks like this VHS movies are not telecined as the movie was jumpy.

So, I tried to figure out how to have the same result with IVTC but not jumpy, as you can see it's already 1:30AM in the morning but I'm still awake and trying to figure out on how to achieve it...

If I use 352x240, the combing effect is totally gone, but the result is lack of brightness.

By the way, the combing effect actually gone on an "any x 480" resolution if I enable the Deinterlace filter of TMPGenc (Odd-Even Field or double). So I am not sure If i will achieve a very good result just like IVTC without jumpiness if I use FiedlDeinterlace() in my script instead of telecine and decimate. That is what i am doing right now, so I'll post an update...when it's done...but in the meantime....can anyone give some more idea advise as to how I can achieve a high resolution without combing effect and lacking of brightness....

Again, now that I saw the result of IVTC, i want to achieve the same result but without the jumpiness.

Also, here's the lines that I addess to the Kwag's latest Optimal Script in case you want to know to help me further

right below the avisource:
ConvertToYV12() --> I need to do this because the DV passthrough capture seems to be using RGB and not YV12 or YUY2, and without this my script will fail.
FieldDeinterlace() --> previously I use Telecine() & Decimate() but the movie is very jumpy.

okay enough talk...i think i need to take a rest now...hmm not yet after testing fielddeinterlace first so i can give u guys an update.

regards,
dredj
Reply With Quote
  #8  
06-30-2003, 12:59 AM
dredj dredj is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 48
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Additional question guys...sorry for too many question...but my question is...since I captured at 720x480, what KVCD template do you suggest I should use...KVCDx3 or KVCDx2...or to let me re-prhase the question...what resolution do you suggest:

352x480, 528x480 or 704x480 ?

My TV is a 40" Digital Projection TV (480p), and my Sony can only play VCD and XVCD, I don't a DVD burner and for sure my Sony will not play a DVD+/-R/RW...and I am not planning to buy DVD burner until it became very cheap. So meaning, the format that I will be using is purely VCD/XVCD or should I say KVCD. (all types of resolution above works on my dvd player).

Thanks for any input.

Dredj
Reply With Quote
  #9  
06-30-2003, 01:00 AM
kwag kwag is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Puerto Rico, USA
Posts: 13,537
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Hi dredj,

As you are converting from DV Cam, have you seen this thread http://www.kvcd.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=634

-kwag
Reply With Quote
  #10  
06-30-2003, 01:04 AM
kwag kwag is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Puerto Rico, USA
Posts: 13,537
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by dredj
...or to let me re-prhase the question...what resolution do you suggest:

352x480, 528x480 or 704x480 ?
KVCDx3 528x480(576)

-kwag
Reply With Quote
  #11  
06-30-2003, 01:08 AM
dredj dredj is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 48
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Wow Kwag you are still awake...can't sleep too?

Anyway, Like I have said, IVTC didn't work to me though the result is crystal clear and bright which I really like except it's jumpy. So using FieldDeinterlace fix the combing effect, but then I don't think I got the same crystal clear and bright result like IVTC...it's still encoding at 66% right now...after this i'll burn them and watch it and see the result.

again thanks for the quick response....

Dredj
Reply With Quote
  #12  
06-30-2003, 01:12 AM
kwag kwag is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Puerto Rico, USA
Posts: 13,537
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by dredj
Wow Kwag you are still awake...can't sleep too?
Yep. Time for a beer to see if it makes me sleep
Quote:

Anyway, Like I have said, IVTC didn't work to me though the result is crystal clear and bright which I really like except it's jumpy.
But you did encode at 23.976 instead of 29.97 right

-kwag
Reply With Quote
  #13  
06-30-2003, 01:29 AM
dredj dredj is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 48
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Hi KWag,

when doing IVTC, yes the frame rate tok use is 23.976 and not 29.97.

But now I use FieldDeinterlace the frame rate is now 29.97

Regards,
Dredj
Reply With Quote
  #14  
06-30-2003, 09:59 AM
dredj dredj is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 48
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
OKay..i'm giving up on using the high resolution or basically using 480 lines....here's what happened after using fielddeinterlace

-Same as IVTC...still jumpy...

FieldDeinterlac also decreases my CQ and increase my encoding time....

looks like i'm stuck in 240 resolution....

Please help if there is still hope...

Reply With Quote
  #15  
06-30-2003, 11:49 AM
dredj dredj is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 48
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Okay last attempt i made is use IVTC with all the filters commented out, just basically do ivtc...and the result is still the same....so I will now stop trying 480 lines and go back to 352x240 and live with it.....anyone out there that can help me increase the brigthness/contrast/sharpness/color & avoid blurry during movement though the filter script. This is basically the only problem I am experiencing when doing a 352x240.

Thanks and thanks kwag for all your help.....
dredj
Reply With Quote
  #16  
06-30-2003, 12:37 PM
kwag kwag is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Puerto Rico, USA
Posts: 13,537
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Hi dredj,

Add this line at the bottom of your script:

ScriptClip("Subtitle(String(nf),1,30)")

Now load your .avs file with Vdub and slowly move the slider through some slow scenes. The value you'll see on the screen is the value of the variable "nf"
If your picture is too blurred and you see the value is over 2 on scenes you don't want too blurred, change the number 2 in "nf > 2 ? to a higher number. You can use the subtitle line as a scope to fine tune your blurring point.

-kwag
Reply With Quote
  #17  
06-30-2003, 02:04 PM
dredj dredj is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 48
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Hi Kwag, if I change the value from 2 to 20...is 20 very high value? is there any rule for this, say it must not be greater than 10 or something?

thanks,
Dredj
Reply With Quote
  #18  
06-30-2003, 03:17 PM
kwag kwag is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Puerto Rico, USA
Posts: 13,537
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by dredj
Hi Kwag, if I change the value from 2 to 20...is 20 very high value? is there any rule for this, say it must not be greater than 10 or something?

thanks,
Dredj
I think it is too high
You'll only get a blur on scene changes and only on extremely high action. You won't really get any compression gain with a value that high
It's best if you find your own optimal value, as you are encoding at 352x240 resolution. The script is really designed aroung 528x and 704x resoultions. You can find your optimal values by loading the script with the subs line I posted earlier, and see how high that value goes on high action scenes. Then look at the movement where you consider that the action is already fast and visual details are lost, and see the reported value at that point. Then use that value for switching.

-kwag
Reply With Quote
  #19  
06-30-2003, 03:43 PM
dredj dredj is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 48
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanks Kwag.

When I use the subtitle technic that you told me, the highest value i got is around 13, so I thought maybe if I use 20 it will be safe. Anyway, since the script is optimized for high resolution, this is what I am planning to do, please let me know if this is possible or not:

1. Change the nf > x ? back to 2
2. Use 528 x 480
3. Use tok to predict the CQ value
4. Launch TMPGenc
5. Load the AVS script for video source
6. Load the KVCDx3 template for TMPGenc
7. Change the Frame Rate to 29.97
6. Set the CQ value as predict by step 3
7. Under Advance tab check Deinterlace and select Double (to remove the combing effect when using 480 lines)
8. Under GOP Structure, is it okay if I checked Detect Scene Change? or you recommend not?
9. then start encoding.

I hope this way I can use KVCDx3 at 528x480 without combing effect and not jumpy.

Anything more you want to add?

Many Many Many thanks....

Dredj
Reply With Quote
  #20  
06-30-2003, 04:25 PM
kwag kwag is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Puerto Rico, USA
Posts: 13,537
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by dredj
Thanks Kwag.

When I use the subtitle technic that you told me, the highest value i got is around 13, so I thought maybe if I use 20 it will be safe. Anyway, since the script is optimized for high resolution, this is what I am planning to do, please let me know if this is possible or not:

1. Change the nf > x ? back to 2
2. Use 528 x 480
3. Use tok to predict the CQ value
4. Launch TMPGenc
5. Load the AVS script for video source
6. Load the KVCDx3 template for TMPGenc
7. Change the Frame Rate to 29.97
6. Set the CQ value as predict by step 3
7. Under Advance tab check Deinterlace and select Double (to remove the combing effect when using 480 lines)
8. Under GOP Structure, is it okay if I checked Detect Scene Change? or you recommend not?
9. then start encoding.

I hope this way I can use KVCDx3 at 528x480 without combing effect and not jumpy.

Anything more you want to add?

Many Many Many thanks....

Dredj
Why would you abort ToK after step 3
The whole idea of ToK is to find CQ, and then encode the movie
You don't even have to worry about loading any templates, because ToK already encodes with KVCD parameters Make sure you put this file it your "Opt" directory where ToK is installed: www.kvcd.net/video.en1
This changes the motion precision and also sets detect scene change.

-kwag
Reply With Quote
Reply




Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
KVCD: Looking at getting an encoding rig buzz86 Video Encoding and Conversion 3 04-29-2006 07:07 AM
KVCD: Bad encoding ... why? password Video Encoding and Conversion 28 09-16-2004 10:16 PM
Encoding: Vcd vs kvcd almightythermos Video Encoding and Conversion 1 07-22-2004 09:19 AM
KVCD: Encoding at 4:3 or 16:9? Adder Video Encoding and Conversion 5 01-29-2003 10:27 AM
How can I get CCE to use one of the kvcd templates for encoding? jrv331 Video Encoding and Conversion 1 11-14-2002 02:55 PM

Thread Tools



 
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:22 AM  —  vBulletin Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd