Quantcast KDVD and M2vrequantizer - digitalFAQ.com Forums [Archives]
  #1  
10-27-2003, 09:55 PM
TooTall TooTall is offline
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I saw a topic about using DVD Shrink before to get more space out of a KDVD. I as wondering if anyone wanted to take a challenge at an idea. I don't know if this is possible but I think it would be cool if someome used the M2VRequantizer and made KDVD optimizations to it. Read about M2VRequantizer at http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?threadid=62849. And if someone caould also make a gui like rejig, then we would have a quick and easy way of making KDVD or KVCD files.
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  #2  
10-27-2003, 11:05 PM
kwag kwag is offline
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Beautiful

So just do: Final_Size = Encoded_.m2v_size / Wanted_Target_Size

So if you encoded your file, and the size was over your wanted size , just use the formula above and transcode
I wish it worked with .m1v files
But for MPEG-2 files, this is the end of file size prediction
Just use CQMatic, and use a higher ( ~10% or so average bitrate ), and after you encode, run your .m2v through "Requant" with the formula above, to resize your file to a perfect file size

-kwag
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  #3  
10-27-2003, 11:09 PM
kwag kwag is offline
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Oh man, this is GOOD
One CQ prediction with CQMatic, followed by one "Requant" cycle for a perfect fit


Thanks Too Tall
-kwag
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  #4  
10-28-2003, 02:34 AM
Krassi Krassi is offline
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Thanks TooTall,
that's really a great tool
I'm currently looking at the source code. Maybe we can tweak it with the Notch Matrix
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  #5  
10-28-2003, 05:34 AM
Jellygoose Jellygoose is offline
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God this is awesome!! How come there's no such tool for MPEG-1 yet?
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  #6  
10-28-2003, 07:03 AM
kwag kwag is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jellygoose
God this is awesome!! How come there's no such tool for MPEG-1 yet?
I think it could be modified for MPEG-1, but it will be quite a task.
I just made a test on one of my KDVD encodes, and I reduced the size by half, and it still looks very good
From ~1.6GB to 800MB.
However, I notice that on scene changes and high action, there are some visible macroblocks ( which I did expect to see )
Anyway, this program will definitely kill the over sized problems of CQ with all KVCD and KDVD encodes for MPEG-2.
It's a piece of cake to simply use CQMatic, and if it's over the size, do the simple math and "Requant"
This way, if I'm over, say 50MB, it will be a very small requantization needed, and the transcoding speed will be very very fast.
Maybe I'll add it to CQMatic, so that if encoded file is over the size by some pre-determined %, then automatically execute "Requant" after TMPEG's encode, and tailor the final mpeg size to exactly the wanted size

-kwag
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  #7  
10-28-2003, 09:49 AM
Jellygoose Jellygoose is offline
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Well let's get to work than! My programming skills will not be sufficient to modify the program to work with MPEG-1 files...
Who can?
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  #8  
10-28-2003, 10:31 AM
nicksteel nicksteel is offline
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Since I do MPEG2 only and would like to try this, could someone point me to an executable version of M2VRequantizer (I'm not into compiling)?

I use WindowsXP.
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  #9  
10-28-2003, 11:19 AM
Krassi Krassi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicksteel
Since I do MPEG2 only and would like to try this, could someone point me to an executable version of M2VRequantizer (I'm not into compiling)?

I use WindowsXP.
The link at the top of the thread includes the windows binary:
http://home.t-online.de/home/340044300675/requant.zip
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  #10  
10-28-2003, 11:36 AM
nicksteel nicksteel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kwag
Beautiful

So just do: Final_Size = Encoded_.m2v_size / Wanted_Target_Size

So if you encoded your file, and the size was over your wanted size , just use the formula above and transcode
I wish it worked with .m1v files
But for MPEG-2 files, this is the end of file size prediction
Just use CQMatic, and use a higher ( ~10% or so average bitrate ), and after you encode, run your .m2v through "Requant" with the formula above, to resize your file to a perfect file size

-kwag
So just do: Final_Size = Encoded_.m2v_size / Wanted_Target_Size

I've downloaded requant.zip. I assume it's a dos line command tool. The only instruction I can find is: "requant 2.0 input.m2v output.m2v".

Exactly how do I use this?

NickSteel
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  #11  
10-28-2003, 12:19 PM
rhino rhino is offline
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@nicksteel:

follow the doom9 thread for this. Nic from the doom9 has written a gui called rejig for this and can take vobs, m2v as input, and you can set the output ratio (in percent)

cheers,
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  #12  
10-28-2003, 01:57 PM
nicksteel nicksteel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhino
@nicksteel:

follow the doom9 thread for this. Nic from the doom9 has written a gui called rejig for this and can take vobs, m2v as input, and you can set the output ratio (in percent)

cheers,
Found it, downloaded it and have started testing it. The doom9 thread is interesting, as I use KDVD, but have confined my efforts to the main feature itself. This looks like a practical way to keep the menus, etc, after KDVD encoding for m2v's.
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  #13  
10-28-2003, 04:46 PM
kwag kwag is offline
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Well, just finished doing a quick 50% recompression test from VOBs of the movie "Red Planet" ( which I have already done KDVDs with TMPEG many times, and looks just awesome even at 704x480 on one CD ), and the result or Requant is not very good
On stills and medium action, Requant works ok. But on action scenes, it sucks like a tornado
At least when transcoding VOBs on a 1:1 ( 720x480 size )

This is what an action scene from the DVD of Red Planet looks like, transcoded to 50%. Transcoded .m2v size is 1,664,763KB:


And here's the original VOB:


Quite a long way from DVD2ONE, DVD Shrink, etc

Edit: Here's the same screenshot from my KDVD encode (16:9 non-anamorphic), which has a total .m2v size of 1,018,787KB ( video stream only ) WITHOUT any filters. Just KVCD's "Notch" matrix.



-kwag
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  #14  
10-28-2003, 05:06 PM
TooTall TooTall is offline
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Doom9's forum is where I found out about it. I just thought that if it could be optimized with the KDVD specs that it may be useful to backup some dvd9 people own. I backup everything I have onto DVD's (data/music/video) and use the backup to prevent the original getting scratched. If M2VRequantizer could be optimized with the Notch Matrix, then the video file could be remuxed in ifoedit to make a perfect quality backup. Basically transcoding with the Notch Matrix. This is what I am hoping for.
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  #15  
10-28-2003, 05:14 PM
kwag kwag is offline
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Hi TooTall,

Right now, Requant is very usefull, if it's to be used with smaller resolutions/compression ratios.
I find that there's nothing better that a full re-encode, instead of a transcode.
I don't think a transcode can be done with another matrix which was not in the original encode. I talked to DVD Shrink ( the developer) a long time about it, and he told me he was going to do some tests, but I never heard from him again. After reading some MPEG protocol stuff, I came to the conclusion that it's not possible ( I hope I'm wrong )
The same goes for transcoding to a lower resolution, which I believe there are some talks on that doom9 thread.
The best thing to do is to do a full encode at the target resolution you want, and then tailor (tweak) the the final file size with Requant. As long as the % is not too great, then this tool is very usefull. But I wouldn't use it to transcode a DVD down to not even 40% lower compression.

-kwag
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  #16  
10-28-2003, 05:38 PM
nicksteel nicksteel is offline
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My interest is confined to under 5% compression of KDVD files. Often I miss the final file size by 2 or 3% and have to reencode. This is especially a problem with miniDVD's encoded to 2 CD's at 704x480.

Do you see this as a viable tool under these circumstances?

Could you try the same Red Planet scene at 5% compression for comparison?

If so, it would be a valuable addition to CQMatic as a final routine for MPEG2 encodes.

I agree completely on the quality issue with large compression factors. In fact, I find KDVD with the MA script so superior to DVD2ONE or DVDShrink that I don't use them. It does seem strange at times that my KDVD will not come even close to filling a DVD at 80+ CQ, while being much cleaner than a DVD2ONE or DVDShrink encode filling an entire DVD.

NickSteel
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  #17  
10-28-2003, 05:44 PM
vmesquita vmesquita is offline
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I think what needs to be tested is the following:
What gives better quality: a 5% bigger file transcoded to perfectly fit or a 3% undersized file? I think some serious testing needs to be done on this matter, who cares if the size is perfect if the quality is worse?

[]'s
VMesquita
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  #18  
10-28-2003, 05:52 PM
kwag kwag is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicksteel
My interest is confined to under 5% compression of KDVD files.
Me too
Quote:
Often I miss the final file size by 2 or 3% and have to reencode.
Exactly
Quote:
This is especially a problem with miniDVD's encoded to 2 CD's at 704x480.

Do you see this as a viable tool under these circumstances?
Of course
I would say that even a ~10% to 15% decrease file size with this tool is still undistinguisheable from the original
Quote:

Could you try the same Red Planet scene at 5% compression for comparison?
Will do it right now
I'll post results in some minutes.
Quote:

If so, it would be a valuable addition to CQMatic as a final routine for MPEG2 encodes.
Already in the "Todo" list
Quote:

I agree completely on the quality issue with large compression factors. In fact, I find KDVD with the MA script so superior to DVD2ONE or DVDShrink that I don't use them.
Ditto
Quote:
It does seem strange at times that my KDVD will not come even close to filling a DVD at 80+ CQ, while being much cleaner than a DVD2ONE or DVDShrink encode filling an entire DVD.

NickSteel
Same here

-kwag
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  #19  
10-28-2003, 06:11 PM
kwag kwag is offline
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Here's the result, compressed 5% ( 95% from ReJig's menu, the GUI to Requant )



So I assume that I'm correct, that we could go to 10% to 15%, without visual degradation

-kwag
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  #20  
10-28-2003, 08:06 PM
nicksteel nicksteel is offline
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I'm going to try a complete dvd with KDVD and the menu methods on the doom9 site. With KDVD compression and this new tweaking program, it should be easy to size the different parts and end up with something superior to DVD2ONE and DVDShrink for a dvd with features.
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