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  #1  
02-10-2004, 07:42 AM
Razorblade2000 Razorblade2000 is offline
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ATM I use rds_correias commandline:

Quote:
mencoder -sws 2 -vf denoise3d,eq2,scale=704:-3,expand=0:576 -ofps 25 -forceidx -of mpeg -nosound -ovc lavc -lavcopts vcodec=mpeg2video:intra_matrix=8,9,12,22,26,27,29, 34,9,10,14,26,27,29,34,37,12,14,18,27,29,34,37,38, 22,26,27,31,36,37,38,40,26,27,29,36,39,38,40,48,27 ,29,34,37,38,40,48,58,29,34,37,38,40,48,58,69,34,3 7,38,40,48,58,69,79:inter_matrix=16,18,20,22,24,26 ,28,30,18,20,22,24,26,28,30,32,20,22,24,26,28,30,3 2,34,22,24,26,30,32,32,34,36,24,26,28,32,34,34,36, 38,26,28,30,32,34,36,38,40,28,30,32,34,36,38,42,42 ,30,32,34,36,38,40,42,44:mbd=2:vbitrate=2200:vrc_m inrate=300:vrc_maxrate=3000:vrc_buf_size=917:keyin t=25:vlelim=-4:vcelim=7:lumi_mask=0.05:dark_mask=0.01 'D:\BTTF\VOBS\VTS_01_1.vob' -o 'd:\bttf\m2v\encoded.mpg'
which has got:
-notch matrix
-denoise filter
-lumi masking
-darkness masking

I guess B-Frames are still missing
Which other aspects conecerning the current ffvfw settings are missing?
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  #2  
02-10-2004, 08:46 AM
rds_correia rds_correia is offline
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Ooops
Have you check the final res with the settings I was using
I believe you will have a bad surprise when you check the vertical res...
It's not 576...
I don't know how to use the filters otherwise I think mencoder is really as good as ffvfw and is DAMN faster than ANY codec I've tested.
Although all other codecs I tested I was using avs scripts and mencoder can't use them which could explain the speed diff...
By the way did you know that this avs/mencoder thing is what started the ffvfw thread?
Hope you can give me some help with mencoder too.
Or maybe the guys from ffmpeg...if they weren't so busy explaining that Linux is FAR superior than Windows: As if we weren't aware of that years ago
Cheers
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02-10-2004, 09:42 AM
Razorblade2000 Razorblade2000 is offline
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I dont really use mencoder in windows that often
I like using it in Linux as I think it gives me some fps

Doesn't your commandline produce XSVCD resolution output?

I am satisfied with the builtin mencoder filters and resizers
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02-10-2004, 01:38 PM
tuco1979 tuco1979 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Razorblade2000
ATM I use rds_correias commandline:

Quote:
mencoder -sws 2 -vf denoise3d,eq2,scale=704:-3,expand=0:576 -ofps 25 -forceidx -of mpeg -nosound -ovc lavc -lavcopts vcodec=mpeg2video:intra_matrix=8,9,12,22,26,27,29, 34,9,10,14,26,27,29,34,37,12,14,18,27,29,34,37,38, 22,26,27,31,36,37,38,40,26,27,29,36,39,38,40,48,27 ,29,34,37,38,40,48,58,29,34,37,38,40,48,58,69,34,3 7,38,40,48,58,69,79:inter_matrix=16,18,20,22,24,26 ,28,30,18,20,22,24,26,28,30,32,20,22,24,26,28,30,3 2,34,22,24,26,30,32,32,34,36,24,26,28,32,34,34,36, 38,26,28,30,32,34,36,38,40,28,30,32,34,36,38,42,42 ,30,32,34,36,38,40,42,44:mbd=2:vbitrate=2200:vrc_m inrate=300:vrc_maxrate=3000:vrc_buf_size=917:keyin t=25:vlelim=-4:vcelim=7:lumi_mask=0.05:dark_mask=0.01 'D:\BTTF\VOBS\VTS_01_1.vob' -o 'd:\bttf\m2v\encoded.mpg'
which has got:
-notch matrix
-denoise filter
-lumi masking
-darkness masking

I guess B-Frames are still missing
Which other aspects conecerning the current ffvfw settings are missing?
You can use b-Frames. I am not sure with the latest official release but using the current snapshot it should work. The command is vmax_b_frames=2 and you can check for more info in the manpage.html that comes with mencoder.
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02-10-2004, 03:16 PM
rds_correia rds_correia is offline
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Hya guys,
I think that the vertical resolution is not coming out 576. I think it's 350 or something like that but I'll try it later on today and get back at the thread.
Which by the way is now getting more interesting than the ffvfw threads...
@tuco
I think that mencoder command line arguments and the online help/manpages/etc were produced by&for guys that are already deeply involved in linux which is by default a (shell) command line OS.
For us guys that don't understand s!ht about it is a really pain in the...
So, that's why I say that the Linux GURU guys like russiansexpat could really give us a hand here because they already understood what each argument does.
I by myself got my hands on the docs and don't understand a word they say even because they mostly refer to mplayer while I'm only aiming at mencoder which is from the same project.
Could anyone get russian here to talk with us?
Cheers
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02-10-2004, 03:30 PM
Razorblade2000 Razorblade2000 is offline
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I love commandline stuff... reminds me of my C64 and the times I spend hours optimizing my autoexec.bat and config.sys in order to get the 580 kb memory that "amored fist" needed to run on my PC

I also like the idea of encoding a whole season of family guy using only one script

btw:
I'm using Linux atm
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02-10-2004, 04:27 PM
tuco1979 tuco1979 is offline
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I may not be an expert with mencoder but I am not sure what question you all are asking besides bframe support. I didn't use russsiansexpat's script but made my own so I could understand what each command do. I agree that the manual on mencoder really lacks especially for mpeg output. Did you read this page http://www2.mplayerhq.hu/MPlayer/rel.../man_page.html. on mencoder? It explains it command a little bit better or at least tells you how to input the commands. If you have any specfic question on the script you have above, I could try and answer it for you. I personally don't want to use ffvfw since it is so slow and while I can use avisynth on it, the speed it too slow on my ancient machine
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02-10-2004, 06:21 PM
rds_correia rds_correia is offline
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@Razor
Yep buddy, I'm all for command line utils too. I did my work on lots of batch files to optimize my Schneider EuroPC too (i8088-512K/Hercules video adapter) and I'm still very fond of command line utilities these days.
That's maybe why I searched for a command line demuxer like bbtool19 when Kwag told us that the stream produced by ffvfw had to be demuxed instead of using Mpeg tools on TMPGEnc.
But also like to learn from real documentation that I had those days when I only ran DRDOS and MS-DOS v3.
Maybe I just haven't found the real docs for mencoder...yet.
@Tuco
All I have to say buddy is that I think I'm not resizing properly with the command line posted by Razor.
And I would like that someone could verify it for me.
If you look at my PC specs maybe they're very similar to your PC and that's why I found ffvfw slow although it produces 2-3 fps.
But when I tried mencoder I could do 7-8 fps, although I was not running avs scripts which slows the encoding down a bit.
The thing is ffvfw & mencoder are free but CCE/Tmpg/MCE are big /$
That's why I'd like to move on to a libavcodec based encoder
Cheers guys
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02-10-2004, 07:44 PM
rds_correia rds_correia is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Razorblade2000
ATM I use rds_correias commandline:
Ooops again, Razor.
In fact I didn't come up with that command line by myself now that I recall.
I just watched carefully russiansexpat's script and filled the gaps with his proposed values, which were the best I could find.
Since we are in a season of giving credits to the right guy, I say all credits for that command line go to russian friend.
Although I must say I still don't know how to crop/resize/addborders with mencoders arguments...
It's a shame...,on me of course
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02-10-2004, 10:10 PM
vhelp vhelp is offline
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I know I've asked this questions before, (or elsewhere's, w/ no response)
but what good is mencoder, if it doesn't work under windows, and also,
what/just how good is it, or can it, stack up against TMPG ??

I love command-line things. I found that I could create command-line apps
under Delphi too.. though I haven't figureout out what to create for
in Delphi as a cmd-line

Darn, that's a very long line, no thanks to the matrix. Anyways.. this toy
needs a gui. To bad there's no windows version. Well, have fun anyways
guys.

Cheers
-vhelp
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  #11  
02-11-2004, 02:47 AM
rds_correia rds_correia is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vhelp
I know I've asked this questions before, (or elsewhere's, w/ no response)
but what good is mencoder, if it doesn't work under windows, and also,
what/just how good is it, or can it, stack up against TMPG ??

I love command-line things. I found that I could create command-line apps
under Delphi too.. though I haven't figureout out what to create for
in Delphi as a cmd-line

Darn, that's a very long line, no thanks to the matrix. Anyways.. this toy
needs a gui. To bad there's no windows version. Well, have fun anyways
guys.

Cheers
-vhelp
Hi Vhelp,
I told you already that THERE IS a windows version of mencoder.
Find it here http://www.mplayerhq.hu/homepage/design6/projects.html for instance. Look for Windows
I said already in this thread that it does 7-8fps against 2-3fps by ffvfw and 2-3fps by tmpg.
The only thing I said is that it lacks avisynth script support and that the documentation is not as explicit as I would like.
Got it?
Cheers
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02-11-2004, 04:22 AM
Hydeus Hydeus is offline
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@RDS_Correia
I got one (two) question to you.
When you do mencoder work do you:
- have proper VBV bufer?
- min and max bitrate are fits in standard?
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02-11-2004, 05:59 AM
rds_correia rds_correia is offline
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Hi Hydeus,
Yep, I'm using a command line that provides correct VBV buffer and there is a way of providing average bitrate, min bitrate and MAX bitrate.
The Q curve is constant and using min300 and MAX5000 for KDVD I'm producing correct streams inside the bitrate limits.
There is a problem though with the b frames support, but Tico posted a fix for that probl and I'm gonna try it tonight.
BTW I'm not quite sure but I think I got it on how to crop/resize/addboarders with mencoder plugins.
I'm running some more tests tonight on that also.
Maybe I'll post the results on our Mencoder for Windows thread .
Note: the speed is now ~7 fps, but somehow the quality has dropped since my old tests some weeks ago. Maybe because I'm trying a different build of mencoder? Gonna check all this tonight.
C ya all tonite
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02-11-2004, 09:41 AM
tuco1979 tuco1979 is offline
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to vhelp:
I think that mencoder in many respects is on par or better than tmpg depending on the situation. I haven't done a dvd rip in a couple of years so I can't comment on that but with tv captures, I like the output on mencoder better than tmpg and it is about four times faster on my athlon 650 machine than tmpg. It takes more work to get the good results from compared to tmpg since you can use avisynth with tmpg but not with mencoder. Since I only use fluxsmooth and simpleresize, it didn't take me too long to get similar results with mencoder. You can also compile mencoder to work in windows using msys and cygwin like I did or get the binaries that rds_correia mentioned. A major problem with mencoder is that it doesn't mux right and you need to remux using tmpg or bbmpeg.

to rds_correia
I only used expand once and I had trouble getting a good result so I cheated and scale my picture, then expand since I couldn't get the aspect to behave correctly. Looking at your script scale=704:-3 should scale it up or don't to 704 by whatever correctly so this part should be right and expand=0:576 should give you black borders only on the top and bottom of your video so this should work as well. so if your original video is 720 by 480, scale=704:-3 should change it to 704 by 469 then expand=0:576 should then add black borders to the top and bottom to give you 704 by 576. I got all this from the man_page.html. Does this help? If you are unsure, cut a 1-2 minute clip from your source video and encode it to make sure.
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02-11-2004, 09:55 AM
kwag kwag is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuco1979
It takes more work to get the good results from compared to tmpg since you can use avisynth with tmpg but not with mencoder.
What about using a pseudo avi file
Either using ffvfw's makeAVIS, or VFAPIconv, to convert an .avs script to avi
Anyone tried that with mencoder

-kwag
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02-11-2004, 11:50 AM
Hydeus Hydeus is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kwag
What about using a pseudo avi file
Either using ffvfw's makeAVIS, or VFAPIconv, to convert an .avs script to avi
Anyone tried that with mencoder
-kwag
You mean a frame server ? If yes, then yes ... we tryed that, even VD frame server, but
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02-11-2004, 01:00 PM
rds_correia rds_correia is offline
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@Tuco,
I am going to post my results tonight.
When I woke up this morning I tried crop=720:552(to remove black bands) scale=688:400(resize value given by FitCD) expand=704:576(to match my wanted KDVD final res) and actually this time the AR & encoded res were ok.
The only thing is that even though I was using min300 MAX5000 average2200 my final resulting 2 minutes encode seamed worst in quality than what I can do with tmpg.
But...the Q curve was a flat line and my VBV buffer was 224
I think I must try that fix from tuco for the 2 b frames support because I think that quality was affected by the GOP structure...
With the above arguments I was trying to obtains the GripCrop, GripSize and GripBoarders features.
So I'll tell you more tonight.
@Kwag,
Buddy, I believe in mencoder because it's fast ~7fps against ~2fps with tmpg, and the quality 3 weeks ago was superior than tmpg.
So the above quality issues I mentioned to Tuco must be bond to the release version I am currently using or with a missing argument in my commands as incorrect GOP structure.
In terms of avisynth compatibility I think that the only way is if sh0dan talks with the guys from the mplayer project.
Unless you want to give it a try because speaking for myself I'm not reliable trying Vfapi or makeAVIS
And I never understood how Vdub frameserves maybe a step by step lesson from one of you guys
C ya all tonite
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02-11-2004, 01:22 PM
tuco1979 tuco1979 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kwag
Quote:
Originally Posted by tuco1979
It takes more work to get the good results from compared to tmpg since you can use avisynth with tmpg but not with mencoder.
What about using a pseudo avi file
Either using ffvfw's makeAVIS, or VFAPIconv, to convert an .avs script to avi
Anyone tried that with mencoder

-kwag
It doesn't recongize ffvfw codec so that can't be used. I tried changing the fourcc to something it could recongized but that just gave me garbage.
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02-11-2004, 01:57 PM
Hydeus Hydeus is offline
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VD frame servering:
- go to VD folder
- find AUXSETUP
- Install handler
- open file in VD
- Start frame server ... under File menu
This produces vdr frame server file, that could be use by other aplication.
I try this with TMPG and it works.
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02-11-2004, 06:54 PM
rds_correia rds_correia is offline
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Hya guys,
Thanks for the lesson Hydeus. I think I'll give it a shot one of these days.
Now to the bad news: I can't match the quality I experienced a few weeks ago with mencoder
Tried different builds, tried different command lines even including IBBP command that Tuco told us, but no go.
I wonder if you guys have quality issues with mencoder...
Don't get me wrong because it's quite watchable but looks like DivX and it didn't when I first tried it
I think it's time you guys post your command lines here.
BTW here it's mine:
Code:
C:\VIDEO\mencoder>mencoder -sws 2 -vf denoise3d,crop=712:552,scale=688:400,expan
d=704:576 -of mpeg -nosound -ovc lavc -lavcopts aspect=1.3333:vmax_b_frames=2:vc
odec=mpeg2video:intra_matrix=8,9,12,22,26,27,29,34,9,10,14,26,27,29,34,37,12,14,
18,27,29,34,37,38,22,26,27,31,36,37,38,40,26,27,29,36,39,38,40,48,27,29,34,37,38
,40,48,58,29,34,37,38,40,48,58,69,34,37,38,40,48,58,69,79:inter_matrix=16,18,20,
22,24,26,28,30,18,20,22,24,26,28,30,32,20,22,24,26,28,30,32,34,22,24,26,30,32,32
,34,36,24,26,28,32,34,34,36,38,26,28,30,32,34,36,38,40,28,30,32,34,36,38,42,42,3
0,32,34,36,38,40,42,44:mbd=2:vbitrate=1800:vrc_minrate=300:vrc_maxrate=2200:vrc_
buf_size=1835:keyint=25:vlelim=-4:vcelim=7:lumi_mask=0.05:dark_mask=0.01 d:\bttf
\vobs\VTS_01_1.vob -o c:\video\mencoder\encoded.m2v
Note the crop/scale/expand parameters: My movie is 720x576 but clipping black bands it gets 720x552.
FitCD says it should be cropped as 712x576 so I did using crop.
Using a wonderful explanation by Inc. on how to set FitCD or Moviestacker for manually resizing, FitCD finally said that I should resize to 688x400. So I did with scale. Note that I used 1 block overscan!
Since I need to get to 704x576 with black band added I used expand.
This gives me (at least to my eyes) a perfect AR and should help compressability...
Now this is all ok using mencoder parameters but I really think there should be an option to use avisynth.
The Mplayer team doesn't pay attention to this because Mplayer is basically for Linux and they don't have avisynth. And I feel so sorry for them...
Hey Kwag are you running some tests also? What about quality? Does it level with the one you saw on ffmpeg?
Cheers guys
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