Quantcast How to Convert 23.976 Film to 29.97 ? - digitalFAQ.com Forums [Archives]
  #1  
04-20-2004, 08:53 PM
ZoMBiE ZoMBiE is offline
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Hello, this is my first post. I've been looking around on here for a while now, and I'm totally amazed with the ideas I found here. I'm still totally new at this, and already I'm embarrassed by how I used to use the cbr method in tmpgenc

Anyway, I searched for this, and couldn't find any help.

For my first kvcd, I figured I'd try to convert Matrix Revolutions to 1 cd, which I found kinda hard, because it's a decently long movie. I followed the amazing guide from Dark Prince:

dvd decrypter -> dvd2avi -> headac3e -> moviestacker -> ToK

I finally got it with min. bit = 64 (after seeing a reply by one Dialhot and testing it, my player is capable of this), max = 2200, 480x480, and it was amazing, except for one thing: apparently, my Apex ad-2500 doesn't like 23.976 very much. It'll play the actual dvd fine, along with every other dvd disc I have, but the kvcd I made doesn't play smooth. It skips maybe 1/2 a second every 4 seconds or so, and it's VERY obvious during the high action scenes at the end and in the dock (if you've seen the movie).

I tested this out with other films and home movies I had, for which I could just use virtualdub to convert to 29.970, and those were perfect. So, I narrowed it down to the 23.976 fps. DVD2AVI reports it's a 23.976 fps FILM movie, which is causing the problem.

Is there a way using anything, virtualdub, avisynth, dvd2avi, etc. to change this to 29.97 fps without affecting quality? I'm totally new at this, so I don't know if there's a way of converting the *.vob files into maybe .avi, so then their framerate can be converted, but wouldn't that mean compressing the movie twice resulting in lower quality Don't know, just an idea. Anyway, here's my script for avisynth, if it'll help:


LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files\MovieStacker\Filters\MPEG2Dec.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files\MovieStacker\Filters\STMedianFilter.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files\MovieStacker\Filters\GripFit_preview.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files\MovieStacker\Filters\UnFilter.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files\MovieStacker\Filters\Sampler.dll")

AviSource("C:\matrix\mtest2.d2v")
GripCrop(480, 480, overscan=2)
GripSize(resizer="BicubicResize")
STMedianFilter(8, 32, 0, 0, 8, 32)
temporalsmoother(1,2)
mergechroma(blur(1.50))
mergeluma(blur(0.2))
GripBorders()

(There's no errors at all when using ToK, but if there's something that doesn't seem right to you guys, please also let me know! I know I'm making a lot of mistakes, but hopefully I'll get better).

Any help is greatly appreciated! Keep up the good work!
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  #2  
04-23-2004, 12:28 AM
Peter1234 Peter1234 is offline
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TMPGEnc will convert 24fps to 29.97fps just by setting frame rate to "29.97" and encode mode to" interlaced". The result seems to be correctly telecined. The files will be larger than for 23.976fps since it takes more frames to fill each second at 29.97fps than it does using 23.976fps.
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  #3  
04-23-2004, 06:03 PM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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That's not the correct way !

You must encode in "MPEG2" with "3:2 pulldown while playback".m This way your file is encoded in 23.976 but will be played at 29.970. There is no change in the file size.
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  #4  
04-24-2004, 04:01 AM
Peter1234 Peter1234 is offline
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ZoMBiE,
If you are using KVCD you have to use the method I gave which is for mpeg1. If you want to use KDVD then use method Phil gave. 3:2 pulldown flag only works in mpeg2.

Phil is an expert, but I don't think he read your post carefully. Or maybe I didn't, but I think you were asking about making KVCD.

Or maybe Phil was pointing out that if you are not using KVCD at 24fps then it is better to use KDVD.
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  #5  
04-24-2004, 06:27 AM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter1234
Phil is an expert, but I don't think he read your post carefully. Or maybe I didn't, but I think you were asking about making KVCD.
A kvcd can be done in MPEG2 !

That is a false idea to think that MPEG2 KVCD are called "KSVCD" or even "SKVCD". GO on the template page and you will see that there is a KVCDx3 template for MPEG1 and an otehr for MPEG2.

Quote:
Or maybe Phil was pointing out that if you are not using KVCD at 24fps then it is better to use KDVD.
No in fact the idea is :

- MPEG1 is always better for KVCD
BUT
- if you need to do a 24->30fps conversion, MPEG2 with 3:2 pulldown is far better than a MPEG1 hard encoded into 30fps (because as you encode more frames, the CQ is lower, and so the result).
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  #6  
04-25-2004, 09:46 PM
ZoMBiE ZoMBiE is offline
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Thanks for the replies, Peter1234 and Dialhot -

Yes, I'm sorry if I didn't say what I was trying to make, but it's kvcd, not kdvd.

A few more questions if you don't mind:

Peter1234: I thought that when you choose the framerate in tmpgenc on the video tabs, it's for the source framerate, and changing that to 29.970 when the actual source was 23.976 would cause errors? I could be wrong, but I never tried it. Tmpgenc usually automatically detects what the framerate it, when I use tok, so I never messed with it.

Dialhot: It was totally obvious to use mpeg2 instead of mpeg1, since I heard that 480x480 is the real resolution for svcd, right? Maybe I missed it because it was so obvious Anyway, I was wondering where you could find out where to change it to mpeg2 instead of mpeg1? Is it in moviestacker or tok? Sorry, never made an mpeg2 file.

Also, the 3:2 pulldown: I saw something for that in tmpgenc, but that's in the advanced tab, where the ghost reduction, noise reduction, etc. are, and I don't think those are it. I see a bunch of settings starting from "Profile & Level" to "DC component precision" on the video tab but everytime I've ever opened up tmpgenc, those options have always been grayed out and I couldn't change them. Is it one of those? How do I change it so I can mess with those options?

Just one more thing: you mentioned a 3:2 pulldown. Now, if moviestacker creates my .avs file, and ToK makes tmpgenc automatically create the video part, then how would I ever get into tmpgenc to even add that 3:2 pulldown? Can I possibly put something like that into the script or .avs file? Or should I do this manually: create the script, use tmpgenc to load the script, (find out how to do the 3:2 pull down), do the 3:2, then manually watch it for file size after it's encoding?

Thanks for the help, both of you. Much appreciated.
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  #7  
04-26-2004, 01:40 AM
Peter1234 Peter1234 is offline
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In TMPGEnc click the setting button and a Video tab will open. On the Video tab there is a drop down box called Frame rate. That is the frame rate that TMPGEnc will use for generating the ouptput video file. If the boxes are greyed out, click the load button which will open a template window which should have a folder labled Extra. Open the Extra folder and double click the file labled unlock.mcf. That will convert the greyed out boxes to normal boxes that can be changed. TMPGEnc will automatically detect the input frame rate and do what ever conversion is necessary to convert the input frame rate to the selected output frame rate.
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  #8  
04-30-2004, 10:42 AM
ZoMBiE ZoMBiE is offline
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One last thing guys:
I finally got it, it was just a matter of changing the file format to MPEG-2 instead of MPEG-1 and adding a 3:2 pulldown flag, and changing the framerate to 23.976.

But now I'm getting a strange thing. When I'm trying to burn my file, I can't have an 800mb file fit on a cd anymore.? Before, burning at MPEG-1, it would allow a 785mb file to fit on 1 cd. Is it because I'm burning at mpeg-2? I had to cut down the quality until the file size was 685mb. Any suggestions or comments?
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  #9  
04-30-2004, 10:49 AM
Abond Abond is offline
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How you multiplex it?
How you burn it?
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  #10  
04-30-2004, 11:11 AM
ZoMBiE ZoMBiE is offline
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I'm kinda new, so I don't know too much about that stuff. But I think I let ToK do it (multiplexing, adding the audio to video, right?). ToK takes care of that, and I'm burning with nero, and choosing Super Video CD option, because I'm creating an MPEG-2. Should I instead burn as MPEG-1?
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  #11  
04-30-2004, 11:12 AM
ZoMBiE ZoMBiE is offline
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I'm sorry, I mean, should I instead burn it as a Video CD in Nero, even though I created an MPEG-2?
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  #12  
05-05-2004, 08:59 PM
ZoMBiE ZoMBiE is offline
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In case anyone still cares I got it to work. It was just a problem with that movie. I think it was the muxing, because when I redid it, I tried to mux the audio and video manually through tmpgenc instead of letting ToK do it, and it worked fine.

So, for anyone who's interested, or who's having problems like I was, I just do it manually through tmpgenc by loading my script and choosing mpeg-2 as the video type, then select a 3:2 pulldown flag to make my dvd player believe it's playing at 29.970 (when it's really a 23.976 film), which it likes. Then multiplex the audio at the end. Finally, I burn it as an SVCD in nero, and uncheck the "standard" checkbox. Done.

For everyone who posted, thanks for all the help. It was greatly appreciated
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  #13  
05-08-2004, 02:15 PM
Werne Werne is offline
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I think this is answer to my problem because it's same as yours. I have tried already converting with pulldown but I muxed it with tmpgenc like you did. And you said that Tok did the work? I'll try... All I need to do is learn how to use this Tok

PS: What program did you use when you separated the audio and movie?
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  #14  
05-08-2004, 05:54 PM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Werne
And you said that Tok did the work? I'll try...
Actually he says that Tok does not work !

And what he did to solev the problem is exactly what Inc and I explained to you in the other threads you open. So we are back to the fist place : you surely missed something ! Read carrefully :
Quote:
I just do it manually through tmpgenc by loading my script and choosing mpeg-2 as the video type, then select a 3:2 pulldown flag to make my dvd player believe it's playing at 29.970 (when it's really a 23.976 film), which it likes. Then multiplex the audio at the end. Finally, I burn it as an SVCD in nero, and uncheck the "standard" checkbox. Done.
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  #15  
05-09-2004, 01:58 AM
Werne Werne is offline
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Yes, I think it's my poor english what makes me hard to understand you guys.
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  #16  
05-09-2004, 06:33 AM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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What is you natural language ?
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  #17  
05-10-2004, 11:27 PM
ZoMBiE ZoMBiE is offline
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Werne, I ripped the ac3 audio with dvd2avi, following this guide:

http://www.kvcd.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2885 by black prince. However, I didn't use ToK at the end, because it doesn't have a way of automatically adding a 3:2 pulldown (that I could find, at least). Anyway, just do it manually like I mentioned in my previous post, and you should be alright. Good luck!
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