Quantcast Packshot Post Processing Button for Inerlaced Sources - digitalFAQ.com Forums [Archives]
  #1  
05-24-2004, 09:21 AM
Zyphon Zyphon is offline
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Hi Inc,

I wanted to test PackShot with a small VOB. I used my DVD Star Trek Nemesis which is PAL @ Res 720 x576.

I ripped one of the extras from the DVD about 10 Minutes long just to do a quick test and not have to wait hours encoding the full movie for the result.

I used the script Vmesquita posted to find out the field order as when I checked the frames in VDub I could see combing on some frames so I assumed I have an Interlaced source.

I dont know if I did it correct but I added the line: 'checktopfirst()' to the end of my MA script (I made a D2V file just to test for interlacing).

VDubMod gave me a black screen with yellow writing and said the following:

Is Frame TFF: False

STATS: TFF 25.000000%
STATS: BFF 75.000000%

So for these results im assuming that my source is source is BFF interlaced.

Now the thing that im puzzled about is this. In PackShot when selecting Deinterlace: KernelDeint BFF' do I need to tick the 'Post Processing' box

My source does have to be de-interlaced am I correct?

Thanks in advance Inc for your help.
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  #2  
05-24-2004, 09:39 AM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zyphon
In PackShot when selecting Deinterlace: KernelDeint BFF' do I need to tick the 'Post Processing' box
deinterlace en pp aren't tie together and work on 2 things completly independant.
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05-24-2004, 10:09 AM
incredible incredible is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zyphon
Hi Inc,

I wanted to test PackShot with a small VOB. I used my DVD Star Trek Nemesis which is PAL @ Res 720 x576.
MEGA Tricky!!
As this is a typical "norm conversion", means .... NOT first inverse telecined and then speeded up to pal for PAL comsumer DVDs.

NO, ... it ahs been directly converted to 25 in its interlaced condidition = blendings did result which you dont recognis in an interlaced source state later on TV.

BUT if you deinterlace it, no matter how, you will have a resulted progressive stream BUT incl blended frames, ...= mega worse!

So u should keep the source interlaced and encode interlaced, the future version of Packshot (in a few days) will support interlaced encoding as its just a matter of parameters send to mencoder.

BUT be aware that you have to re-encode using a very high avg bitrate if keeping good quality is wanted. As interlaced encoding needs high avg's!

This norm conversion as explained above is also applied to Simpsons, Futurama, and so on ....
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05-24-2004, 10:45 AM
Zyphon Zyphon is offline
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@Dialhot

Thanks for the info Phil.

@Incredible

Hi Inc, so from my understanding of what you have said here, should leave the 'Deinterlacing' to OFF then

The 'Post Processing' Is this just in case your source has noise and is not as clean as could be?

Thanks again.
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05-24-2004, 11:11 AM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zyphon
The 'Post Processing' Is this just in case your source has noise and is not as clean as could be?
For that you should use 'Denoise' slidder

IMHO, the PP box has no utility (no offense Inc) because :

- generally Divx and badly encoded videos needs it but not DVD

- even in case of Divx the box is useless as it does Deblock AND Dering and the last one blurs a lot the picture while MPEG4 are already A LOT blurred.

That's why I use deblocking only in my avi scripts and I do very rarely PP on DVD sources.
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05-24-2004, 11:14 AM
incredible incredible is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zyphon
should leave the 'Deinterlacing' to OFF then
In your case of that "norm converted" movie, definitively "yes".

There does exist from didče at doom9 a avs function called "restore24()" its a verrry good "approach" but still not working 100%, so you could test it but this would require avisynth and btw ... its damn slow as it does a "little wonder" by restoring back to 24 fps!

Quote:
The 'Post Processing' Is this just in case your source has noise and is not as clean as could be? Thanks again.
Postprocesssing means in this case a special of "DCT encodings algorythms resulted artefacts" postprocessing, .... and that is done by "deblocking" and if choosen also "deringing". So its not a way to process noise even its a spatial filter process.
To eliminate/reduce noise, choose the Noisereduction trackbar in Packshot.

EDIT: Phil just answered
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05-24-2004, 11:20 AM
incredible incredible is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dialhot
IMHO, the PP box has no utility (no offense Inc) because :
- even in case of Divx the box is useless as it does Deblock AND Dering and the last one blurs a lot the picture while MPEG4 are already A LOT blurred.

That's why I use deblocking only in my avi scripts and I do very rarely PP on DVD sources.
The deringing of pp in mencoder is not that agressive like in BlindPP() of aviynth .... dont confuse mencoder and avisynth filter in 1:1 , they o behave different

But seen your answer in a "logic" I do agree, but in case of mencoder its like said - a bit different.
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05-24-2004, 11:29 AM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by incredible
The deringing of pp in mencoder is not that agressive like in BlindPP()
I do not use deringing in BlindPP because I find it too agresive in ffdshw (that is the first place where I found such PP available a long time ago).

In fact I don't even know how is deringing in blindPP : I do not like deringing, period

As ffdshow is based on libavcodec, as mencoder, I doubt it can be better in mencoder than in ffdshow. But I will try it.
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05-24-2004, 11:32 AM
Boulder Boulder is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by incredible
There does exist from didče at doom9 a avs function called "restore24()" its a verrry good "approach" but still not working 100%, so you could test it but this would require avisynth and btw ... its damn slow as it does a "little wonder" by restoring back to 24 fps!
Here's an interesting thread to read regarding the matter:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=75432

I just used Restore24 yesterday on a full-of-blending PAL Citizen Kane and it turned out great! I only had to make a intermediate MJPEG AVI file because Restore24 would crash TMPGEnc, CCE and MakeAVIS! Luckily VDubMod didn't mind..

Fortunately it's usually the extras that are badly screwed during the NTSC->PAL conversion, not the movies themselves.
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05-24-2004, 11:58 AM
Zyphon Zyphon is offline
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@Inc & Phil

Thanks guys for the information i found it very interesting and insightful and have learned a lot from it.

Inc I dont think ill use that restore 24() as id like to keep the FPS to the original 25fps on my PAL DVD Source.

@ Boulder

Thanks for that link I shall have a read about the info there.
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05-24-2004, 12:47 PM
Boulder Boulder is offline
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Well, Restore24 will give you a 24fps clip but the trick is to use AssumeFPS(25.000) at the end of your script. That's the usual way for NTSC->PAL transfer, even in the Big Business I suppose. You'll get a progressive stream without the horrible blends that way.
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05-24-2004, 04:38 PM
Zyphon Zyphon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boulder
Well, Restore24 will give you a 24fps clip but the trick is to use AssumeFPS(25.000) at the end of your script. That's the usual way for NTSC->PAL transfer, even in the Big Business I suppose. You'll get a progressive stream without the horrible blends that way.
Thanks for the tip Boulder but im confused, if my source is already PAL @ 25fps why do I need to go through the bother of converting to 24fps and then back to 25fps.

Im just confused by this.
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05-24-2004, 11:59 PM
Boulder Boulder is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zyphon
Thanks for the tip Boulder but im confused, if my source is already PAL @ 25fps why do I need to go through the bother of converting to 24fps and then back to 25fps.
Restore24 is meant to be used if you got a bad NTSC->PAL transfer, i.e. lots of blending and an interlaced 25fps stream. Restore24 will give you a progressive stream (=less bitrate needed when encoding) and it will in most cases get rid of all the blends, resulting in a better source material than the one you get straight from the DVD.
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05-25-2004, 02:16 AM
Zyphon Zyphon is offline
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@Boulder

Thanks for clearing that up for me Boulder, now it makes perfect sense.

I appreciate the info.
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05-25-2004, 02:35 AM
Boulder Boulder is offline
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Oh, forgot to mention that it should only be used if the material is known to be of NTSC origin. Which means: meant for a Hollywood movie but not for any BBC-created stuff
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