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  #1  
07-05-2005, 02:20 PM
Prodater64 Prodater64 is offline
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2005 Constructors Championship

Pos after Silverstone Grand Prix






















2005 Constructors Championship

Pos Constructor Points (after Silverstone Grand Prix)

1 Renault 102

2 McLaren-Mercedes 87

3 Ferrari 74

4 Toyota 54

5 Williams-BMW 47

6 Red Bull Racing 22

7 Sauber-Petronas 13

8 Jordan-Toyota 11

9 BAR-Honda 9

10 Minardi-Cosworth 7

2005 Drivers Championship

1 Fernando Alonso Spanish Renault 77

2 Kimi Räikkönen Finnish McLaren-Mercedes 51

3 Michael Schumacher German Ferrari 43

4 Rubens Barrichello Brazilian Ferrari 31

4= Jarno Trulli Italian Toyota 31

6 Juan Pablo Montoya Colombian McLaren-Mercedes 26

7 Giancarlo Fisichella Italian Renault 25

7= Nick Heidfeld German Williams-BMW 25

9 Ralf Schumacher German Toyota 23

10 Mark Webber Australian Williams-BMW 22

11 David Coulthard British Red Bull Racing 17

12 Jenson Button British BAR-Honda 9

13 Felipe Massa Brazilian Sauber-Petronas 7

14 Tiago Monteiro Portuguese Jordan-Toyota 6

14= Alexander Wurz Austrian McLaren-Mercedes 6

14= Jacques Villeneuve Canadian Sauber-Petronas 6

17 Narain Karthikeyan Indian Jordan-Toyota 5

18 Christijan Albers Dutch Minardi-Cosworth 4

18= Pedro de la Rosa Spanish McLaren-Mercedes 4

18= Christian Klien Austrian Red Bull Racing 4

21 Patrick Friesacher Austrian Minardi-Cosworth 3

22 Vitantonio Liuzzi Italian Red Bull Racing 1
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  #2  
07-05-2005, 02:28 PM
Prodater64 Prodater64 is offline
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What do you think is the better design:

Me:

1 - McLaren
2 - Toyota
3 - Renault, Sauber and Jordan.
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  #3  
07-05-2005, 03:26 PM
Zyphon Zyphon is offline
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I love F1, I was going to make a post about it myself I missed the French Grand Prix and the re-runs which I am gutted as the French GP is one of my favourite tracks, I was wondering if there were any VOD sites where I could get the highlights streamed to me for a small fee?

Btw for me the best designs are:

1 - McLaren
2 - BMW Williams
3 - Renault
4 - Toyota
5 - Red Bull
6 - Sauber

This year's F1 has been the best in ages, no longer can I call it the Michael Schumacher Show like the last few years were boring watching him win almost every race, this year it is a lot better (except of course USA Indianapolis which was a farce).

Finally this year the top racers look more evenly matched.

My favourite Driver is Juan Pablo Montoya he is a natural born racer who reminds me of the old drivers who pushed to the edge.

EDIT: Also this season I like Giancarlo Fisichella he is having a great season at Renault and racing extremely well.
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  #4  
07-05-2005, 07:41 PM
Prodater64 Prodater64 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zyphon
EDIT: Also this season I like Giancarlo Fisichella he is having a great season at Renault and racing extremely well.
He has to much bad lucky this season.

BTW, is Silverstone near your home?

Maybe you know Grand Prix 4 game.
Here you can find out last spanish GP4 mod, with tracks, pilots, teams, cars, etc. updated until 2005 season.
Audio is in spanish, sorry.
With this game you can learn tracks as never you did imagine.
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  #5  
07-06-2005, 01:05 AM
Zyphon Zyphon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prodater64
He has to much bad lucky this season.
tell me about it, I feel sorry for him as he is having a great season.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prodater64
BTW, is Silverstone near your home?
I wish. No unfortunately not, it is quite far away from where I live I would love to go there one time though to watch a race live and soak up the atmosphere.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prodater64
Maybe you know Grand Prix 4 game.
Here you can find out last spanish GP4 mod, with tracks, pilots, teams, cars, etc. updated until 2005 season.
Audio is in spanish, sorry.
With this game you can learn tracks as never you did imagine.
Yeah I have Grand Prix 4 and I love this game it is fantastic.

In fact I still have all Geoff Crammond's Grand Prix games, I even have the original first game on PC & my old Commodore Amiga A1200.

GP4 is fantastic and is a great improvement over GP3, i'm hoping they release a GP5 sometime in the future.

I love playing it online against friends although to be honest I haven't played it in nearly a year i've been too busy.

That mod sounds cool though.

Btw Pro who are your favourite drivers this year?
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Michael.
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  #6  
07-06-2005, 04:48 AM
Prodater64 Prodater64 is offline
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Fernando Alonso
Kimi Räikkönen
Jarno Trulli
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  #7  
07-06-2005, 10:20 AM
jason jason is offline
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hello,

I like formula 1, too.
2005 is a great year, but 2003 wasn't that bad, neither.
in fact, 2004 and 2002 are the worst years of formula 1 story (except if you're a schumacher fan), but the others are great.
my favourite gp is indianapolis
no, I like spa-francorchamps track.
and for gp3, I really love to push up my car on Imola, in Acque mineralli, from 6th to 2th in a few seconds.
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07-07-2005, 02:48 AM
Zyphon Zyphon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prodater64
Fernando Alonso
Kimi Räikkönen
Jarno Trulli
I like those drivers also especially Alonso what a season he is having at Renault, looks like he is on course to be World Champion. I hope he does it as he really deserves to after such a great season.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jason
hello,

I like formula 1, too.
2005 is a great year, but 2003 wasn't that bad, neither.
in fact, 2004 and 2002 are the worst years of formula 1 story (except if you're a schumacher fan), but the others are great.
my favourite gp is indianapolis
no, I like spa-francorchamps track.
and for gp3, I really love to push up my car on Imola, in Acque mineralli, from 6th to 2th in a few seconds.
Hi Jason, I agree with you on most points except this year's Indianapolis as this year's race was a farce.

Gp3 is a great game also it is great to test those circuits and see how much you can push to get the best lap record.
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Michael.
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  #9  
07-07-2005, 03:19 AM
Prodater64 Prodater64 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zyphon
Hi Jason, I agree with you on most points except this year's Indianapolis as this year's race was a farce.
I think it was a Jason's joke.
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  #10  
07-07-2005, 07:58 AM
rds_correia rds_correia is offline
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Too many things to say about F1, so I will try to expose them by points .
1-I've been a big fan never loosing a single TV broadcast since I was...7 years old. That goes back to...~1980.
2-Since 1991 I have lost more than 50% of joy that I used to have when I watched a GP.
Reasons for that? Max Mosley and Ca that like to run a show using "their" rules instead of the "drivers" rules.
Of course he was pushed by public oppinion due to Senna/Ratzenberg deaths, but actually that has almost killed F1 true spirit...
3-Never really liked Michael Shumacher "as a person".
4-Consider Michael Schumacher the best F1 driver of all times, period.
5-Always loved Brabham (due to N. Piquet) and especially Ferrari.
6-Number 27 is my lucky number and I really liked Gilles agressiveness on the tracks.
I will never forget him against Arnoux for those last 6 laps...
7-Indianapolis '05 was not a farse: F1 '91..'05 is a farse!
7b-Those that did not race, just didn't because they just felt like not doing it.
Nothing could have been done by the FIA to prevent this.
7c-Guilty part: Michelin&Teams&Drivers. Victims: spectators all around the world especially the Americans.
7d-I know, I know, it was all in the name of safety. But are you telling me that F1 is supposed to be a safe sport???
We want as safe as it can get but it must not interfere with the real purpose of F1.
Safety would have been achieved by running the Michelin cars slower than usual on the big banking.
7d.1-Let's not forget that both Ferraris have gone much slower than usual on several '05 GPs just because tyres didn't allow it.
This way they did finish some races grabbed some points and even scared the hell out of Mr. Alonso for several occasions.
7d.2-Rules also apply to Michelin runners.
But rules seem to fade away when you're talking about 14 cars.
Watching the tables I can't see any loss of points on those teams/drivers that did not run in USA GP.
Why?...
We know that FIA will meet again to discuss this matter but it will be in September.
By then they have lost the momentum to punish anyone.
Who am I cheering this year?
For sure not Mr. Alonso.
This year I chose to support Tiago@Jordan.
Small note: this weekend I saw 5 finger on Alonso's hands.
Curious because I have never ever seen seven fingers on Schumacher's hands .
Medium note: there are only two active F1 world championship winners (well driving an F1) in activity, Schummy and Jacques.
Very big note: the above sentences should not be seen as an offense to noone. I have nothing against Spain or the Spanish people! Actually, on the contrary
I just don't like Alonso's attitude - or JPM's attitude for what it's worth.
I can't forget (last years' ?) Monaco GP episode under safety car
Two little things for everybody to think: how many "real" overtaking have we seen last weekend? and how many "real" overtaking will we see next weekend? Zip, rien, niente, nada!
Do you want to see some real racing? Then watch GP2!
I mean this is crazy...F1 is not delivering it's purpose and we can see lower categories that can...
My rules package for next year's F1 season:
- increase the wings/downforce by 30%. Cars are easier to drive and safer when they have downforce.
- reinstate 1500cc turbo engines with a 1.0bar pop-off valve furnished by FIA as an alternative to regular engines.
- reinstate slick tyres much safer than grooved tyres.
- remove automatic gearboxes and launch control mechanisms.
- remove traction control; I want to see cars slidding again -> then we'll see who is more...gifted
- actually remove all electronic parts except the engine electronics.
- oblige all teams to broadcast on TV all their car<->box communications.
- permit as many tyres per weekend/race as needed! that shall be much safer then what we have now.
And it eliminates any doubts if the driver is allowed or not to change a tyre without being penalised. Look at Raikonen...
- oblige any car to stop no more than twice per GP to refuel. This shall make the cars much heavier/slower and possibly safer.
- FIA could think of creating a rear wing that would allow overtaking easier.
Back on subject.
Best good looking car? Ferrari -> honestly ...
Best car this year? McLaren or Ferrari -> not quite sure because they don't run on the same tyres but I could almost swear it's still Ferrari.
Best package? Alonso/Renault/Michelin.
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  #11  
07-07-2005, 08:19 AM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rds_correia
4-Consider Michael Schumacher the best F1 driver of all times, period.
And Jean Alesi .... ?
Quote:
7d-I know, I know, it was all in the name of safety. But are you telling me that F1 is supposed to be a safe sport???
F1 is not a safe sport but everything is done to keep it at the safest. And running with potentialy problematic tyres is not the safest. You can't force a pilot to run a car in these conditions. Or you are a potentially murdurer.

It's easy to tell Michelin is guilty because nobody died this day. But who would have took the guilty part in case of race and final death(es) ?

Quote:
Safety would have been achieved by running the Michelin cars slower than usual on the big banking.
Are you a Michelin engineer ?
Do you think they adviced the teams to not run the race because they were too lazy to implement a safety procedure ?
The tyre exploded with no reason. If 'too fast speed' has been the reason, then the solution would have be easy to find and use.

Note: and I'm not sure you consider how much money each team spent uselessly that week-end. You can be sure that they didn't decide to drop the race just to please Michelin.

Quote:
7d.2-Rules also apply to Michelin runners.
But rules seem to fade away when you're talking about 14 cars.
Watching the tables I can't see any loss of points on those teams/drivers that did not run in USA GP.
They didn't gain any point either (of course, as they did not race). Does the FIA rules say that they should also loose some previously gained points ? I mean, are you forced to race even if you don't want to ?
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  #12  
07-07-2005, 10:53 AM
rds_correia rds_correia is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dialhot
And Jean Alesi .... ?
You BET he is on my top 10 favorite drivers .
Perhaps he is/was the best driver of all times under wet conditions .
Besides Jean drove the 27 for many years.
Maybe one of the most exciting drivers for the last 15 years.
He always made me remember Gilles, pushing and pushing and pushing.
Thumbs up for Jean :P

Quote:
F1 is not a safe sport but everything is done to keep it at the safest. And running with potentialy problematic tyres is not the safest. You can't force a pilot to run a car in these conditions. Or you are a potentially murdurer.
Under which conditions, Phil?
We knew that the tyres had problems.
From the FIA statements, and from Charlie Whitings statements we are forced to believe that it would be ok to use those tyres.
Right now I can't find the links but I shall send them to you.
You don't think that Max would want any of the boys injured, do you?

Quote:
It's easy to tell Michelin is guilty because nobody died this day. But who would have took the guilty part in case of race and final death(es) ?
No, it's not easy to come to such a conclusion.
As a matter of fact I know too many people that think quite the opposite, that is, that the FIA is the guilty party of such an incident.
They even share the same idea that the FIA should have forgotten about the rulings and that should have let the Michelin teams use tyres that had just arrived on Sunday.
What can I say? Tyres that weren't even tested at that time.....
Guilty for death(s)? I can't remember anyone claiming blame for any driver death. Not even in Senna's case - simply using this one to express myself, I don't want to talk about that episode.

Quote:
Are you a Michelin engineer ?
Do you think they adviced the teams to not run the race because they were too lazy to implement a safety procedure ?
No I'm not. I'm using the FIA press releases to take a position over this matter as I already said.
Quote:
The tyre exploded with no reason. If 'too fast speed' has been the reason, then the solution would have be easy to find and use.
Contraditions between what the FIA stated and what Michelin (didn't) say but that almost everybody wants to believe.
Are you a Michelin engineer? What makes you so sure that they didn't screw-up on the factory and that they knew it all the time?
But one thing I know: Michelin wanted to have a chicane just before the begining of the banking. If that's not assuming that the problem was speed then I don't know anything else .

Quote:
Note: and I'm not sure you consider how much money each team spent uselessly that week-end. You can be sure that they didn't decide to drop the race just to please Michelin.
Noone ever wants to please anybody on F1.
They didn't race because they had a press release from Michelin saying that it was unsafe.
Pick it from there and tell me that you would force any driver to race if you were a team manager -> I'm not refering to teams, I'm refering to drivers.

Quote:
They didn't gain any point either (of course, as they did not race). Does the FIA rules say that they should also loose some previously gained points ? I mean, are you forced to race even if you don't want to ?
Go read the (forum) rules again Phil .
You f*** up the show, you pay it.
Usually the teams are sanctioned with a fee and loss of points.
Please note that I wasn't refering to drivers loosing points.
I was refering to teams loosing points.
But that's my fault because I used the expression "14 drivers" when I should have written 6 teams.
Shall I name a few? McLaren, Renault, Williams, etc...
Too many too big names here to do something like removing some points, right?
And yes, the rules say that you have to race otherwise you suffer the consequences.
Otherwise they wouldn't have started the race for the opening lap.
The rules are the rules wether they apply for 1 driver, one team or 6 teams or even only 3 teams.
But beyhond that, the worst thing is that I can hear everybody blaming the FIA or Ferrari/Jordan/Minardi for something they can't be blamed.
They don't build tyres...
But spectators don't have to watch a race between 6 cars instead of 20.
Spectators buy tickets to see 20 cars starting the race.
Otherwise close down FIA F1 championship.
I don't care too much, I hate watching 1,5h with 2 or 3 real overtakes and usually half of them are due when the lights turn green...
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  #13  
07-07-2005, 12:27 PM
jason jason is offline
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I have to agree with Dialhot on that .
I was really angry against michelin, but I thought a little about it, and I realized that they were very brave to do that.
F1 is not a sport, it's a business, the teams have partners, sponsor, there reputation, and they just can't afford to stop the race.
but they did it, and if they did it, believe they had very good reasons.
f1 is not a safe sport, but there's a difference between driving at 300 mph and telling your drivers their tyres may gonna explodes after 10 run...
And the drivers all wanted to drive.
some of them even wanted to drive without gaining any points.
The FIA is not placed to say "rules are rules, and that's all".
Max Mosley (he wasn't on the track, did he think it wasn't so important ?) lives in Monaco because he doesn't want to have problems with Europeans laws.
In 1994, a chicane was added on the track of Spa, why not at Indy ?
In 1993, when Williams-Renault made that terrible mistake ( they just forgot to register for the championship), the rules forced them to require the universal assent of the others teams.
what do you think Mosley did ? "forget about the rules, you're registered, and that all. don't do it again."
and what about 1999, with the deflectors case ?
what about schumacher on the yellow line at Monaco 2005 ?
he wasn't punished, did he ?
the solution of the FIA : "drive slowly", was just stupid and dangerous : 6 cars driving at 250 mph and 14 driving at less than 100 mph ?
well.
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  #14  
07-09-2005, 08:39 AM
rds_correia rds_correia is offline
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Jason buddy, too many things that I haven't understand in your post.
Anyway here goes:
Quote:
In 1993, when Williams-Renault made that terrible mistake ( they just forgot to register for the championship), the rules forced them to require the universal assent of the others teams.
what do you think Mosley did ? "forget about the rules, you're registered, and that all. don't do it again."
You got me on this one. I honestly can't remember it.
Can you elaborate a bit more on what happened?
Maybe that way I can remember.
I promisse I will investigate.
Quote:
and what about 1999, with the deflectors case ?
What deflectors case? The FIA clearly exposed why they did nothing to stop those deflectors. These were not mentioned in the rules, therefore the teams could and should use them in case they were more performant.
One thing is when the rules clearly state something and teams just don't abide by these rules.
Another thing is when rules don't mention one possibility.
In that case teams should check if that possibility would enable them to be faster then without it.
Let's not get confused with these issues.
Quote:
what about schumacher on the yellow line at Monaco 2005?
he wasn't punished, did he ?
Just what yellow line? I can't remember anything yellow on that track...
Exiting the pits you mean? Could you be a little more specific?
From Monaco all I can remember is 1 or 2 years ago Michael was in 1st place with the safety car ahead and JPM behind.
Suddenly he was out of the race having been pushed out by JPM under yellow. Racing incident? what? kidding me? isn't yellow supposed to maintain cars slowly on track?
Punishment for JPM? Never seen one being applied because of that event.
You can say that Michael was champion in his 1st year by having pushed Damon. But that was probably a race incident as it was not under yellow and they were fighting for a position.
It is my honest oppinion that Damon was right and that Michael pushed him out of the track when he saw that he would loose the championship.
Appart from that let me remind you that Michael was champion in that year with a Benetton-Ford against Damon in a Williams-Renault.
The power difference was measured in more than 80 horse power for the Williams-Renault. That means that Damon should have easily won the championship with let's say 5 races to go.
So before blaming Michael he can go blaming himself for not being half the driver that his father was...
Quote:
In 1994, a chicane was added on the track of Spa, why not at Indy ?
Can't exactly recall that chicane was the one I'm thinking or not.
I remember one year they put a chicane to slow down every car not only one or two or 14 cars.
That was in the safety interest of all drivers.
And that was after a GPDA meeting before the race when all drivers agreed that they wouldn't run if such chicane would be built.
And it wasn't built overnight.
They asked for that on thursday when they arrived and they had free practice and qualifying to see if it would work.
Bottom line it was in the best interest of all drivers and not just 14 out of 20!
Anyway from Spa all I can remember is David Coulthard almost stoping on the track and Michael running into him.
Telemetry clearly stated that David hadn't braked but telemetry also stated that David was pushing and that suddenly he took his foot of the gas pedal for no apparent reason slowing the car in more the 80KPM.
Now, why would he do that if had no malfunction in the car?
Anybody loosing points here? Nobody except Michael .
You gotta be kidding.
Quote:
the solution of the FIA : "drive slowly", was just stupid and dangerous : 6 cars driving at 250 mph and 14 driving at less than 100 mph ?
well.
So we go back to the begining. Who is to take blame for what happened at Indy? FIA? Ferrari? Or simply put Michelin?
No matter what we may say or write here there is simply one guilty party for the incidents at Indy and that is Michelin.
The victims were the spectators that saw a, what was it? Farse? Yes a farse going on just because when you tell the drivers that after 10 laps they may die out of a crash they just don't race and I can't blame them for that.
So for me it's hard not easy to point Michelin but I have to be honest and say that if someone was guilty then that someone was Michelin.
Should FIA allow them to run with tyres that had arrived on Sunday morning and that noone could say if they were better or worse than the original?
No! that would be opening up precedent and the Bridgestone teams would have asked for the same one or 2 races after if they saw that the chosen tyre package was not performant.
Bottom line: F1 will always be a dangerous sport.
The parties involved in such sport have the responsability of making it as safe as possible for all and even for spectators.
But let's just not kill the spirit of the sport that is to try and make the fastest among all out there.
What we have seen is that no matter what measures will be used by FIA to make the cars slower that will only work for half a season.
So make them suffer more to make the cars faster.
More downforce to make them more reliable in the corners without traction control but at the same time heavier so that they are not as fast as they are now in the straights due to heavy fuel load.
More downforce means more control behind the next car too so more overtaking.
At the same time let's try to make it so F1 remains the most interesting speed championship because otherwise people will move on to GP2, Champcar or anything else.
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07-10-2005, 04:20 PM
rds_correia rds_correia is offline
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Reactions taken at the press-room from the top 3 drivers at the end of the Silverstone GP today.
See what I mean?...
Quote:
The recent FIA survey said that 94 or 96 per cent of the viewers who watch races would like to see more overtaking.
But the technical directors said on Friday that to do that they would have to make cars slower.
As drivers, would you prefer to have the fastest possible cars, or more opportunity to overtake a rival?

JPM - In my opinion, I think they could compromise.
We could still have the same speed and I think one of the problems is that they are reducing downforce in the car and one of the ways to find more grip is increasing the tyres, so that the hole when you follow someone is bigger so the turbulence is bigger and the grip level is smaller so it makes it harder to pass.
Even if you go slower you don't have the grip so it makes it harder to pass.
FA - Same opinion. We should find a good compromise for the drivers' point of view.
Of course we would like to drive the fastest car possible. We are in Formula One and we are already racing in many other categories and when you arrive here you want maximum technology and maximum car performance.
But for sure you can have something in the middle.
KR - When you compare to the last year, it is developing more difficult to follow people around here than it was last year.
So even when they have tried to change the rules they have not exactly worked out because trying to follow someone in the high speed corners is much more difficult.
What the hell is FIA waiting for?
Waiting that millions of spectators loose interest in the sport?
A sport can only be a great sport if it's seen by many.
All of you, please bear in mind that we've been hearing drivers' quotes with these exact same words ever since
those tragic moments in Italy some years ago.
Drivers always said that the sport needed more safety measures but that it didn't need less downforce to achieve that.
Otherwise we'd be better watching 50cc karting races
Cheers
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  #16  
07-13-2005, 04:20 PM
Zyphon Zyphon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rds_correia
2-Since 1991 I have lost more than 50% of joy that I used to have when I watched a GP.
Reasons for that? Max Mosley and Ca that like to run a show using "their" rules instead of the "drivers" rules.
Of course he was pushed by public oppinion due to Senna/Ratzenberg deaths, but actually that has almost killed F1 true spirit...
3-Never really liked Michael Shumacher "as a person".
4-Consider Michael Schumacher the best F1 driver of all times, period.
5-Always loved Brabham (due to N. Piquet) and especially Ferrari.
6-Number 27 is my lucky number and I really liked Gilles agressiveness on the tracks.
I will never forget him against Arnoux for those last 6 laps...
I agree with all those points.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rds_correia
7-Indianapolis '05 was not a farse: F1 '91..'05 is a farse!
7b-Those that did not race, just didn't because they just felt like not doing it.
Nothing could have been done by the FIA to prevent this.
7c-Guilty part: Michelin&Teams&Drivers. Victims: spectators all around the world especially the Americans.
Here I don't agree sure Michelin and the Teams and the FIA with all their BS politics are to blame. Michelin held their hands up and admitted they made a mistake, they refunded eveyone who bought tickets which ran into millions of dollors/

You can NOT blame the drivers, I don't know how your races are broadcasted where you live but here in the U.K every single Michelin Driver wanted to race and thought it was totally ridiculous that they were not allowed to do their job. Like you say ultimately the poor fans both at the stadium and worldwide TV viewers suffered.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rds_correia
7d-I know, I know, it was all in the name of safety. But are you telling me that F1 is supposed to be a safe sport???
We want as safe as it can get but it must not interfere with the real purpose of F1.
Yeah it is not suppose to be a safe sport but there must be some degree of safety as we can't have drivers dying left, right and centre.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rds_correia
Safety would have been achieved by running the Michelin cars slower than usual on the big banking.
7d.1-Let's not forget that both Ferraris have gone much slower than usual on several '05 GPs just because tyres didn't allow it.
Yeah but you can't expect the majority of racers to run slow as it is not in their nature to do so it goes against every fibre in their being and would have been just as boring for us to watch.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rds_correia
7d.2-Rules also apply to Michelin runners.
But rules seem to fade away when you're talking about 14 cars.
Watching the tables I can't see any loss of points on those teams/drivers that did not run in USA GP.
Why?...
I agree here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rds_correia
For sure not Mr. Alonso.
This year I chose to support Tiago@Jordan.
Small note: this weekend I saw 5 finger on Alonso's hands.
Curious because I have never ever seen seven fingers on Schumacher's hands .
Medium note: there are only two active F1 world championship winners (well driving an F1) in activity, Schummy and Jacques.
Hmm, I think you are being rather harsh on Alonso. He is a great racer. Sure I know he has a great car beneath him but he deserves to be where he is this year. He has a very old head on such young shoulders and has showed a maturity in his smoothness and driving abilities as a driver many years his senior, I for one hope he wins it and becomes the youngest to do so.

For me this season Alonso and Juan Pablo Montoya are true racers just like the old style racers. I mean look at the British GP last wekend. Alonso fancied his chances of catching Montoya now that is what I call racers.

Also Montoya's leap from the grid was awesome, I felt sorry for him in the French GP with his car's failure as he would have got a podium place.

Kimi Räikkönen, Giancarlo Fisichella & Jenson Button are also great racers and not forgetting Mr Schumacher. I feel sorry for Fisichella he has had such bad luck and stalled his car in two consecutive races in the pit-stop even though the cars are suppose to have an anti-stall device especially when he was twice in contention for a good position even a podium place.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rds_correia
Two little things for everybody to think: how many "real" overtaking have we seen last weekend? and how many "real" overtaking will we see next weekend? Zip, rien, niente, nada!
Also I think this is unfair also, as a F1 fan you should know the problems faced with overtaking especially with high speed tracks, the turbulence caused by the downforce these cars produce make it next to impossible most times to get close enough to pass a rival. The hot fast air procduced make the car behind handle very difficultly. What is need is for downforce to be produced beneath the car so to allow cars to get closer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rds_correia
My rules package for next year's F1 season:
- increase the wings/downforce by 30%. Cars are easier to drive and safer when they have downforce.

- reinstate slick tyres much safer than grooved tyres.
- remove automatic gearboxes and launch control mechanisms.
- remove traction control; I want to see cars slidding again -> then we'll see who is more...gifted
- actually remove all electronic parts except the engine electronics.
- oblige all teams to broadcast on TV all their car<->box communications.
- permit as many tyres per weekend/race as needed! that shall be much safer then what we have now.
And it eliminates any doubts if the driver is allowed or not to change a tyre without being penalised. Look at Raikonen...
- oblige any car to stop no more than twice per GP to refuel. This shall make the cars much heavier/slower and possibly safer.
- FIA could think of creating a rear wing that would allow overtaking easier.
I agree with these rules we need to get to basics of driver skills and not just pointing the car in the right direction.

I also want full slicks brought back I hate these new tyres.

Btw I was pleased Montoya won his first race this season he has had such a bad time of it this year what with his injury and various car problems lets hope his season is on the up from now on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dialhot
And Jean Alesi .... ?
Alesi was one of my favourite drivers, I loved his partnership at Ferrari with Gehard Berger good times.

I still love the likes of Mansell, Senna and even the Professor Mr Alain Prost. While Prost may not have been an out and out on the edge racer like Mansel and Senna he was a very intelligent driver calculating eveything and a great tactician hence his name 'The Professor'.
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  #17  
07-13-2005, 04:23 PM
Zyphon Zyphon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rds_correia
Reactions taken at the press-room from the top 3 drivers at the end of the Silverstone GP today.
See what I mean?...
Quote:
The recent FIA survey said that 94 or 96 per cent of the viewers who watch races would like to see more overtaking.
But the technical directors said on Friday that to do that they would have to make cars slower.
As drivers, would you prefer to have the fastest possible cars, or more opportunity to overtake a rival?

JPM - In my opinion, I think they could compromise.
We could still have the same speed and I think one of the problems is that they are reducing downforce in the car and one of the ways to find more grip is increasing the tyres, so that the hole when you follow someone is bigger so the turbulence is bigger and the grip level is smaller so it makes it harder to pass.
Even if you go slower you don't have the grip so it makes it harder to pass.
FA - Same opinion. We should find a good compromise for the drivers' point of view.
Of course we would like to drive the fastest car possible. We are in Formula One and we are already racing in many other categories and when you arrive here you want maximum technology and maximum car performance.
But for sure you can have something in the middle.
KR - When you compare to the last year, it is developing more difficult to follow people around here than it was last year.
So even when they have tried to change the rules they have not exactly worked out because trying to follow someone in the high speed corners is much more difficult.
What the hell is FIA waiting for?
Waiting that millions of spectators loose interest in the sport?
A sport can only be a great sport if it's seen by many.
All of you, please bear in mind that we've been hearing drivers' quotes with these exact same words ever since
those tragic moments in Italy some years ago.
Drivers always said that the sport needed more safety measures but that it didn't need less downforce to achieve that.
Otherwise we'd be better watching 50cc karting races
Cheers
Yeah some good points, Max Mosely and the FIA to me are killing the sport.

For me now sadly its more of a business than a Sport with to many egos getting in the way of the thing people want to see races.

Out of interest I read this on the official F1 site about aerodynamics changes.

http://www.formula1.com/news/3309.html
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  #18  
07-13-2005, 06:06 PM
jason jason is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rds_correia
Jason buddy, too many things that I haven't understand in your post.
Anyway here goes:
Quote:
In 1993, when Williams-Renault made that terrible mistake ( they just forgot to register for the championship), the rules forced them to require the universal assent of the others teams.
what do you think Mosley did ? "forget about the rules, you're registered, and that all. don't do it again."
You got me on this one. I honestly can't remember it.
Can you elaborate a bit more on what happened?
Maybe that way I can remember.
I promisse I will investigate.
I've read that in a french site, here's the link.
It's the third paragraph above the yellow Benetton.
it's the whole text from "au début de l'année 1993..." to "bien que, comme il fut avéré, on en ait en réalité mal rapporté ses propos."
I give you the systran translation, I hope it accurates.
Quote:
At the beginning of, the year 1993, in consequence of a blunder of its share, Williams exceeded two days the deadline of inscription to the championship. As comic as that can appear, the Champion of the World of the Manufacturers needed from now on L? unanimous agreement of its rivals to be authorized to take part in the competition. And, O surprised, in fact the technological restrictions were to act as currency of exchange. That was characteristic of what F1 had become during the Nineties. At the end of the day, Mosley put an end to stupidities in question while announcing - with the devil the payment! - that it authorized the participation of Williams but its decision was supplied with an interrogation as for the validity of the super licence which Alain Prost held, who succeeded Mansell. It was a little as if one had prevented Pelé from buying a balloon of foot. The crime of Prost had consisted in criticizing the authorities leading.
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Quote:
and what about 1999, with the deflectors case ?
What deflectors case?
at the race of sepang 99, the both ferraris won. then, 2 hours later, the technical delegate announce the disqualification of Schumacher and Irvine over the wing deflectors of the ferrari.
they were only 10 mm bigger than the regs allowed, and I honestly don't think the cars gained any advantage, but this was the rule.
so, ferrari, irvine and schuey should have lost there points for this race.
but Ferrari appealed the disqualification and the FIA, surprisingly, upheld the appeal. one week later, Ferrari had their points back.
you know what happened next...
all I want to say is that sometimes, the FIA is more tolerant with some teams...
Quote:
Quote:
what about schumacher on the yellow line at Monaco 2005?
he wasn't punished, did he ?
Just what yellow line? I can't remember anything yellow on that track...
Exiting the pits you mean?
yes.
raikko had a drive thru for that, last year (canada, if I'm not wrong), and others drivers, sometimes just because they didn't see their back wheel crossing that line just a little.
but not schumacher.

sorry for my english.
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  #19  
07-14-2005, 05:13 AM
Zyphon Zyphon is offline
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I tell you what rule really infuriates me this year, it's the 10 place penalty the driver has to endure if his engine fails.

I think not only is this anti-competitive it is wholly unfair on the driver and has robbed us the public of some good scraps.

Look at the British GP Kimi Räikkönen demoted 10 in the grid.

I think the FIA should just fine the team say $100,000 and make the team or the engine supplier pay for the engine failing not the driver. There could have been a good scap with Kimi and Juan at Silverstone but we were robbed of that. This rule just plain SUCKS!

Also I think it's about time the FIA did something about Ferrari'a policy of let Michael Schumacher always win in our team, this is also anti-competitve and I fee sorry for poor Rubens Barrichello he always has to play second fiddle to Michael.

There have been a few times when Rubens could have pushed for the race win but was ordered to stay behind Michael and hold position. He is a better man than me I don't think I could do the same if I were in his position.

Go to http://www.formula1.com/ there is a poll vote about should boost buttons be introduced to promote overtaking? I voted a hefty YES!

EDIT: On another note, I just got round to watching the French Grand Prix at Magny Cours (got to be one of the most smoothest tracks in the World ) and I was saddened by the fact that this was the first French GP in over 40 years that did not have a French Driver.

Olivier Panis being the last French Driver to race an F1 car. I think this is sad news surely there are promising up and coming young French drivers out there? Where are they?
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  #20  
07-16-2005, 08:39 AM
rds_correia rds_correia is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zyphon
You can NOT blame the drivers, I don't know how your races are broadcasted where you live but here in the U.K every single Michelin Driver wanted to race and thought it was totally ridiculous that they were not allowed to do their job. Like you say ultimately the poor fans both at the stadium and worldwide TV viewers suffered.
Michael, I also don't know how the races are broadcasted back there at the U.K..
All I know is that before the race started there was a lot of people that were guessing that 6 Teams would give up after a couple of laps or even after the opening lap.
So, I don't know how you know that all drivers wanted to race.
You're not talking about *after* the race was over are you?
Because at that point everybody *can say* anything they want.
All my posts were based on press releases by the FIA/Michelin/Teams *before* and after the race.
From those press releases we knew that Michelin had a problem.
After the race started we knew that only 3 teams were out there putting up a show for one of the best audiences in the world: F1 fans.
Quote:
Yeah but you can't expect the majority of racers to run slow as it is not in their nature to do so it goes against every fibre in their being and would have been just as boring for us to watch.
Again I remind you that a lot of other drivers have driven *a lot slower* because their tyre package just wouldn't let them.
You mean that a guy that is 7 times world champion can take it but that other guys can't?
Quote:
Hmm, I think you are being rather harsh on Alonso. He is a great racer. Sure I know he has a great car beneath him but he deserves to be where he is this year. He has a very old head on such young shoulders and has showed a maturity in his smoothness and driving abilities as a driver many years his senior, I for one hope he wins it and becomes the youngest to do so.
He doesn't deserve anything, although I agree that he is a great racer.
1st he has to proove something, for instance that he is the best, and then he can show us as many fingers in his hands as he wants.
Smooth? Are you serious Michael?
I haven't seen anyone caring so less for the car as I have seen Alonso.
Man, look at the chicane before the big straight at France this year and tell me who has been driving smoothly .
I for one hope that if he wins - which by know it's already obvious - that only wins for less than 6 points.
Then we will not only see a lot of fingers in his hands as we will also see him pissing his pants.
Obviously Kimi is a whole lot better driver than he is.
You just need to see them racing and you don't need to be an F1 expert to make such an assumption.
Quote:
For me this season Alonso and Juan Pablo Montoya are true racers just like the old style racers. I mean look at the British GP last wekend. Alonso fancied his chances of catching Montoya now that is what I call racers.
I can't make much from these sentenses.
Sorry, English is not my native language...
But I can tell you that even if we saw a couple of overtaking manouvres at the UK it was down to people that had to start from 12 because of rulings...
Quote:
Kimi Räikkönen, Giancarlo Fisichella & Jenson Button are also great racers and not forgetting Mr Schumacher.
You don't forget Schummy but you quote him at the very bottom of your list.
That says it all.
I've said it more than once: I don't like his "way" but he is the best driver of all times wether we like it or not.
Masters like Senna or Prost and many others prooved to be good but he prooved to be better than them all by many reasons.
He is still the reigning champion but for everyone he is dead.
I've seen this movie a lot of times.
I still remember Piquet wanted to abandon F1 in '84 / '85 while he was still young.
But I can recall seeing him winning a 3rd title in '87 and leaving F1 in the end of '91 at the age of ~40.
During that period a lot of people had to "swallow a lot of frogs" because of the things they said about him being "dead for F1" and all.
People are starting to say that Schummy is "dead" while he still can finish some races in the podium using a much worser package than others and looking much more relaxed than the 1st and 2nd placed.
He still "has it" and he can still come to show us that next year - given that he has a fast and reliable package something that he hasn't had this year.
I know, he dominated F1 scene for too long and you guys want somebody else to win it at least from times to times right?
So do I!
But let me tell you, when you're the "best by far" such as he is the odds are that he will "be there" again as soon as he is given proper conditions.
For me it's more like "let them all have good packages and let them do the best they can".
In the end we'll know who's the best and I know who's still the best.
Quote:
Also I think this is unfair also, as a F1 fan you should know the problems faced with overtaking especially with high speed tracks, the turbulence caused by the downforce these cars produce make it next to impossible most times to get close enough to pass a rival. The hot fast air procduced make the car behind handle very difficultly. What is need is for downforce to be produced beneath the car so to allow cars to get closer.
Do you know what you're talking about, Michael ?
Downforce is downforce.
It is usually produced by a fast moving object.
But it can also be produced by a standing-still object that faces the wind, like in a wind tunnel.
Downforce is not produced on the top of the object or on the bottom of the object.
It is simply produced and it has nothing to do with hot air.
That's simply a word for explaining that for instance when an F1 is running - due to it's aerodinamics - the air surrounding it creates forces that push the car against the track as opposed to what happens with an airplane.
What you probably mean is that due to the drag tunnel of the F1 in front, an F1 behind can can go faster than if it wasn't under those conditions.
And that the air inside the drag tube is more rare in oxigen.
I'm using the word drag because it is what is used in Portugal although I'm affraid it might be a "false friend" and by such not applyable to these circumstances when speaking in English.
AND usually, or at least sometimes, such a drag is not a perfect one meaning that aerodinamically speaking it is not smooth producing what you can call turbulence inside the drag tube.
This evil effect is due to the aerodinamics of the F1 in front of you.
What you need to do is to make the F1 in front of you produce a smooth drag.
Now what's the F1's part that is capable of producing more downforce and thus drag?
Yep, the rear wing. And that's why in CART they had a single rear wing produced equally for all teams.
Easy, ain't it?
Quote:
Btw I was pleased Montoya won his first race this season...
So was I but the fight was over by the 2nd corner of the 1st lap...
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