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  #21  
10-31-2005, 05:04 PM
Shibblet Shibblet is offline
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Give me another few days, and I'll have a complete set. A new and improved version.

Remind me if I forgot any.

352x240(28
352x480(576)
480x480(576)
528x480(576)
544x480(576)
704x480(576)
720x480(576)

And new files will be available in MPEG 1 and 2 Formats.
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  #22  
10-31-2005, 06:55 PM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shibblet
And new files will be available in MPEG 1 and 2 Formats.
That's great.
I don't know if you use the KVCD parameters (Notch matrix and 15 picture long GOP) but if you do, these files will allow at the same time to check the compatibilty of SPA with KDVD
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  #23  
10-31-2005, 06:58 PM
Shibblet Shibblet is offline
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Yes, I use KVCD & KDVD Standards. So they will also check for compatibility.

I might even do a bitrate check... thanks for getting my wheels spinning DialHot.
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  #24  
10-31-2005, 09:04 PM
kwag kwag is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dialhot
(Notch matrix and 15 picture long GOP) but if you do, these files will allow at the same time to check the compatibilty of SPA with KDVD
If the KDVD samples fail on a SAP, then it's the SAP that is incompatible
As previously discussed in the forum, where I mentioned the MPEG specifications and the book "Video Demystified", I pointed out that matrixes are "Manufacturer Specified" on the encoder side.
So if any SAP fails playing a sample, return that SAP for being Non DVD compliant, and having a crappy MPEG decoder

-kwag
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  #25  
11-01-2005, 04:13 AM
incredible incredible is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil
All my tests proove me the opposite and if you permit, I wish to see that with the overscan test Shibblet did.
Interesting ... my Ch505 does respect the ITU and uses 526,5px out of 544 for displaying on the analogue TV set.
So thats why I said..
Quote:
And .... the user can find out if HIS SAP is ITU compatible at 544, 528 etc.
It will be very interesting if diff. SAP Brands/Chipsets do cook their own soup.


If I have time today, Ill connect my SAP to my Capture Card for getting the final delivered active Image area delivered by the SAP.
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  #26  
11-01-2005, 05:21 AM
GFR GFR is offline
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First thanks for the test files, great job!



Testing every resolution with mpeg-1 and mpeg-2 is a good start, but there are some specific details on each SAP that make an exhaustive compatibility test something hard to achieve. Maybe it's better to stick to the original intent of measuring the useful area for each resolution, only.

For example, on my SAP (Philco):

For KVCD - all *x480, mpeg-1 will have audio skips and sync problems if it's 23.976fps but not at 29.97fps, while all *x480 mpeg-2 works ok, except 528x480 (the video looks shifted to the left with a big black bar on the left). BUT the same 528x480 mpeg-2 video burnt as MPEG-ISO is OK... And there are other things like CVD/SVCD subs compatibility, multiple audio support, support for audio in 48kHz or in other formats like mp3 and AC3, some SAPs only work with mpeg-1 if it's muxed as SVCD (or vice-versa)...


All KDVD play OK, as expected since it's standard.
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  #27  
11-01-2005, 08:48 AM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kwag
If the KDVD samples fail on a SAP, then it's the SAP that is incompatible
Correct, but I'm also talking about using KVCDx3 resolution on a KDVD, that is not standard. But all my SAP accept it and I often use that to put 6-8h on a disc.

@Andrej,
What about this line of my previous mesage :
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dialhot
Try the 704 and the 720 one and you can see that the green (or blue) border appears at the exact same number of pixels. This is at least on my two TV set. Stange, isn't it ?
Do you have the same ?
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  #28  
11-01-2005, 10:48 AM
incredible incredible is offline
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Right now I did author a testing DVD with Luma and Size variations.

That one I'll will be the food for my 2 SAPs and the capture card.... reporting in the next hour
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  #29  
11-01-2005, 11:27 AM
incredible incredible is offline
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Here comes the truth .... well at least in the case of using a Cyberhome505 for playback:

Reference is a 720 image brought to full PAR1:1 as if it would be shown on TV (well, means the 702px within the 720):





Now, I did capture the 544 correctly resized version of that 720source
And it matches! (as it should be):





Now the 528 one :



Totally out of ITU!
That would mean, IF resizing to 528x576 we need a diff PAR! for resizing in case of DVD playback - Ill fix that in PARanoia.

But still 528 would make sense (if a correct individual PAR for resizing is used) as still 526,5px are in the active TV area ONLY ... and thats what we generally wanted to find out.

Heres the proof:



The thin green line shows what will be displayed on TV, so only 526,5 out of the original 544!
(The 544 level would have more width, but my card just samples at 52,148us so the 544 are "cropped" during capturing.)

The 544 original BTW:
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  #30  
11-01-2005, 12:51 PM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by incredible
well at least in the case of using a Cyberhome505 for playback:[...]

(The 544 level would have more width, but my card just samples at 52,148us so the 544 are "cropped" during capturing.)
1/ I don't understand if you test reflects what you have on your TV or what your Card is abble to capture. Can't you tell us what you see on your TV screen ? We do not need snapshot to trust you.

2/ can you tell me what is the overscan in pixels that reveal the shibblet mpeg sample for resolution 704 and 720 please ? I want to know if on your TV and using your SAP and your eyes, the result are the same than for me : the border appears at the same number of pixels (more or less...).

Theorically, the border with 720 should appear after 8 pixels more then 704. Isn't it ?
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  #31  
11-01-2005, 03:43 PM
fabrice fabrice is offline
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Hi,

Thanks for this samples! A great idea I'll try them to see what is the overscan of my tv set, but I think it's near x2.
Just about 528/544, it seems that 544 is a bit more compatible than 528 (from a test in a spanish forum).

Thanks,

Fabrice
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  #32  
11-01-2005, 04:24 PM
incredible incredible is offline
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Phil,

I just got home and I havn't time to burn a DVD now etc.
But Anyhow .... I did feed my SAP using the Disk from today I made and watched the Full 720px Template which I included also on that testing DVD:



On my TV ... using the SAP or HTPC ... I can clearly see that the width of that 720x576 Template is unproportianlly more cropped in its width, means about less 8 px on each side if it was 720 (on the TV 788 cut to 768 --> PAR 1:1). This is the same as if the Templates in the beginning of the thread in 720 mode would begin in the width-overscan 8px after

It "could" be that there are some Players out, which just do scale 720 and 704 as the same! Like in my 528/544 example above.

You also can use these as I made them for PARanoia for watching the correct PAR.
Do generate a DVD out of these and do measure the circle if it results in the same size on X and Y axis (well checking if a circle is round ).





So on the 720 example, the SAP/TV view should show theoretically a screen cropped in its width at the ITU 601 52,000us spec. IF the playback is "centered" ... if not, try to adjust your TV via the hidden OSD Options if available.
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  #33  
11-01-2005, 05:05 PM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by incredible
It "could" be that there are some Players out, which just do scale 720 and 704 as the same! Like in my 528/544 example above.
I will try on my Pioneer "DVD only" SAP. Because for the moment I used my Divx compatible SAP, in raw MPEG2 mode (not authored DVD). This can explain the issue.
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  #34  
11-01-2005, 05:15 PM
incredible incredible is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dialhot
Because for the moment I used my Divx compatible SAP, in raw MPEG2 mode (not authored DVD). This can explain the issue.
Yep! Could be! In mpeg4 or raw mode the SAP assumes a 52,000us source! That one will be put in an imaginary 768x576 frame, scaled to 702x576 and send to the TV ... well if the SAP does it right
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  #35  
04-02-2006, 03:09 AM
khng khng is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by incredible
Phil,

I just got home and I havn't time to burn a DVD now etc.
But Anyhow .... I did feed my SAP using the Disk from today I made and watched the Full 720px Template which I included also on that testing DVD:



On my TV ... using the SAP or HTPC ... I can clearly see that the width of that 720x576 Template is unproportianlly more cropped in its width, means about less 8 px on each side if it was 720 (on the TV 788 cut to 768 --> PAR 1:1). This is the same as if the Templates in the beginning of the thread in 720 mode would begin in the width-overscan 8px after

It "could" be that there are some Players out, which just do scale 720 and 704 as the same! Like in my 528/544 example above.

You also can use these as I made them for PARanoia for watching the correct PAR.
Do generate a DVD out of these and do measure the circle if it results in the same size on X and Y axis (well checking if a circle is round ).





So on the 720 example, the SAP/TV view should show theoretically a screen cropped in its width at the ITU 601 52,000us spec. IF the playback is "centered" ... if not, try to adjust your TV via the hidden OSD Options if available.
can you share it?
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  #36  
04-02-2006, 04:55 PM
incredible incredible is offline
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What? The Pics?
These you can "safe as" out of my posting converting them to rgb32 bmp and do the following avs script:

ImageReader("xxxxxxx.bmp", 0, 250, 25, false)
converttoyuy2()

encode them via vdub as huffyuv or TmpegEnc/CCE as 720 and 720 mpeg2.

Paranoia can be found in here, use the "search".

The DVD Template can be found here:
http://www.doom9.org/index.html?/cap...re_window.html
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