Quantcast KVCD Compatibility? can only View the 352x240 Resolution? - digitalFAQ.com Forums [Archives]
  #1  
08-25-2003, 05:45 PM
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Watching the KVCD compatability image, I can only view the 352x240 resoution on my Philips 724. The others (352x480, 524x480) do not work. The 352x480 gives choppy audio and video, the 524x480 plays all funky, green and black pixels all over the screen.

However, stuff I'm reading lately makes me think that these other resolutions can be played. Two examples are below:

This thread in the standalone player forum says 352x480 and 480x480 both work in KVCD mode.

If you look here at the compatability chart, the Philips 724 isn't listed. However if you scroll down to the comments on 20 Jul : 11:38 by funkguy4(Guest), they say "The Philips DVD 724 (or 724AT) works with all the KVCD templates, even with authoring (raw ISO)!"

However, my methods produce onlly playable streams at the 352x240 resolution. Is it something I am doing wrong? I tend to doubt it, because the compatabaility image that Kwag himself made only plays at 352x240. However, then that begs the question why others can play at greater resolutions then me.

Standalone DVD player settings? That could be an issue, however I spent a good hour trying multiple combinations with no success on both 352x480 and 544x480 (I can't see 524x480 at all, but the 544 plays, with just the normal skipping).

What else have I tried? pulldown to run at 29.97 FPS (352x480 played @ 29 FPS on one of Kwag's samples) . . . take M1V and mux and burn as SVCD . . . demultiplex MPEG1 and remux and burn as SVCD . . . up min bitrate to 600, 800, 1000 . . . use constant bitrate of 800, 100, 1200 . . . and on and on.

Anyone have any thing else to recommend or try? Other than bite the bullet and just use the 352x240? Don't get me wrong, that resolution looks good, but the others look much better on my 42" HDTV.
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  #2  
08-25-2003, 06:03 PM
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Try encoding in MPEG2, it might help...

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  #3  
08-25-2003, 07:42 PM
incognito incognito is offline
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You used the compatability image with the 6 resolutions on it? I have a Phillips 701 and it will play all the images except #6, 588x480 I think. I can also encode at 23.976 or 29.97 fps. I have used the MA script the other 2.0 script and the Divx script which is kick a**. I wish I could think of something that could help. Maybe it's a setting during muxing?
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08-25-2003, 10:41 PM
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@vmesquita: Actually, I have tried this with mixed success. One movie I had no problem burning at MPEG-2, the other movie I had the same problems with choppy audio and video. I think the encode settings were the same, but to be honest I've been grasping at straws for so long trying to get other resolutions working that if I did have something changed between the two settings, I wouldn't know what it was.

@incognito: yes, the compatability image has 6 on it. Only the first 3 will play (all 352x240). The others would either show the choppy audio and video, or not play all together. I've tried with the Avisynth 2.0 script earlier, and now with the optimal 2.5 script as well as the divx script. If the resolution isn't 352x240, it isn't playing correctly . . . with the exception of the one movie I mentioned above that I was able to use MPEG2 for.

With regards to muxing, I follow Kwag's recommendations when encoding MPEG-1. The one post mentioned upping the VBV Rate in TMPGenc, however I have decreased to 0, ran at 24, 40, 48, and 60 all with the same results.
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08-27-2003, 08:16 AM
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As a followup on one test sample I tried:

I can play any size MPEG-1 by adding ConvertFPS(29.97) at the beginning of the AVS script. This however, is probably a last ditch method as this add frames and doesn't look as good. Because you are adding frames, you are also losing quality.

I was also able to burn MPEG-2 by following the details here. This, muxed as SVCD, played great on my player, at least for this clip. I'm going to try a few more samples over the next day or so to verify my results.
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08-27-2003, 08:53 AM
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ConvertFPS(29.97) accelerates the movie from 23.976 to 29.97 fps, of course this can't work right.
So it's better for you to use MPEG2. Since in MPEG2 you can use 23.976 fps with pulldown, you're going to achive the best quality your player can give this way. Since you're stuck in MPEG2, you might want to try CCE, it's a lot faster than TMpgEnc and it's said to give better results in MPEG2 (To me the quality is about the same). Now do some tests with 352x480, 528x480 and 704x480 to find out what resolutions your player supports.

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  #7  
08-27-2003, 11:02 AM
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@vmesquita:

I know my player supports 544x480. I'm not sure about the others. If you had the choice, would you take a lower resolution (352x480) with a higher CQ, or a higher resolution (704x480) with a lower CQ? The 544 looked pretty good, but I'm not sure if for my TV (42 inch widescreen) that the higher resolution would look better.

I'll maybe try all three tonigh to see what I think.
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08-27-2003, 04:28 PM
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If you get a CQ lower than 60 using 544x480, you better drop to 352x480. And if your CQ is higher than 80 using 528x480, you can go up to 704x480 using a lower CQ for better quality.

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08-28-2003, 01:05 PM
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My Philips dvd 722 doesn't plays video choppy when the disc is burnt as vcd and the video bitrate goes over the vcd standard bitrate. It is possile to mux the mpeg 1 video (which is at kvcd bitrates better than mpeg 2) as svcd using bbmpeg and then burn it using nero. The player has no problems playing these mpeg 1 svcd weird resolution files as long as the total bitrate sown't exceed 2700.
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03-16-2004, 09:34 PM
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Hi I'm a newbie and I have the same DVD player. I encode with TPMGEnc using the SKVCDX3 PAL template for PAL AVI files (25fps) and de SKVCDX3 NTSC Film template for NTSC AVI files (23.976 fps). I do this frame serving from VirtualDub, and encoding the audio with TPMGEnc, from the wav files obtained form VirtualDub (in the VBR case) or from HeadAC3he (if the sound in the AVI is AC3 (I downloaded the templates a long time ago when they include the audio encoding parameters).

The only thing I've changed after doing some tests is the resolution:

NTSC: 528x480 -> 704x480
PAL: 528x576 -> 704x576

With these settings I can see the movies fine in my TV (Philips DWIDE 32") and hear a acceptable sound in my Bose Lifestyle 30 Series II.

I don't know if I doing something that can be done in a better manner but i converted about 100 films in that way and have no problems at all.

I choose to increase the resolution of the AVI files resizing them to a wide of 704 pixels (using the lanczos3 algorithm form VirtualDub), because I think that in this manner I don't loss any information from the AVI file (I do this even if the resolution of the file is lower than 528 pixels wide). The results are stunning.

Also I always increase the minimum bit rate setting to 1200 (i found that this eliminates some pixelation an plane tones in the low motion scenes), use a fixed CQ value of 28 and increase or decrease the maximum bit rate setting of the CQ settings in TPMGEnc to adjust the size of the movie to fit in 2 CD's (because I find a more linear relationship between the size of the file and the maximum bit rate than the Quality setting).

I hope that this help you.

Regards,
Juancho.
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03-16-2004, 09:47 PM
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You are doing frameserving from vdub so you don't use any script, you enlarge video (even if I understood well that your standalone doesnt give you other choice on this part), you use an old template that surely don't have the KVCD-Notch matrix, you encode the audio with tmpgenc...

... and you find the results stunning ?

Jeez... It's time for you to discover what KVCD really are

Update your templates, encode your audio decently, try one of my scripts I did for avi->kvcd encoding. and you will see what KVCD can offer to you.

You can even try Diko, in your case things can't be worst.

Note: before to says a player can't handle a resolution there is FOUR tests to do :

- encode in MPEG1 and mux in VCD
- encode in MPEG1 and mux in SVCD
- encode in MPEG2 and mux in VCD
- encode in MPEG2 and mux in SVCD

If none of these 4 test work, THEN the player do not handle the resolution.
That give a lot of chance to have one that works.

EDIT: And you encode everything at CQ
28

No, you are kidding, that's not possible. It's a joke ? An april fool ? Were is the camera ?
(I hope you meant CQ_VBR, not CQ. Did you ?)
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03-16-2004, 10:25 PM
juancho juancho is offline
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Wow!!!

Thank you for your so fast response!

Yes I'm using CQ 28 but in the template that I have the encoding is done using CQ_VBR and not plain CQ as you guessed. I think that this template is 8 months old or so, and now i reformatted my computer, so I need to reinstall all the software, and come here again to see if there are any news.

Today I discovered that you are not using anymore TPMGEnc to encode the audio, so please tell me what is the best thread to look for the best method for encoding and multiplexing?

With respect to the video, I use MPEG2 because I think that is better than MPEG1 (but I never tried to use MPEG1). Am I wrong? And also, I never try any script as you say, because when I see the results achieved using Virtualdub to resize and add subs, and the SKVCD template to encode in MPEG2 using TPMGEnc in 2 CD's , I was satisfied with the balance between quality and complexity.

But I have more experience now and I always open to try new things, so again, please tell me what thread I need to read to improve the video quality too.

I appreciate a lot the effort that you do maintaining this site and doing the hard work of investigate these weird things. I have no other things to say that very big THANK YOU for all.

Regards,

Juancho.
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  #13  
03-17-2004, 05:18 AM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juancho
Yes I'm using CQ 28 but in the template that I have the encoding is done using CQ_VBR and not plain CQ as you guessed.
Okay... so 28 is actually a really good value. CQ_VBR28 is equivalent to CQ85 at least.

But that do mean that your template is really to old. I'm glad to see that you intend to upgrade to last ones.

Quote:
Today I discovered that you are not using anymore TPMGEnc to encode the audio, so please tell me what is the best thread to look for the best method for encoding and multiplexing?
Really difficukt to point a thread but the idea is simple : encode the audio with headac3che or besweet and mux it with the video stream using tmmpgenc (file menu -> mpeg tools) or bbmpeg.

Quote:
With respect to the video, I use MPEG2 because I think that is better than MPEG1 (but I never tried to use MPEG1). Am I wrong?
Unfortunally yes. At low bitrate MPEG1 is better. And by "low" I mean less than 2300 (in average). In other words : for all KVCD.

Quote:
And also, I never try any script as you say, because when I see the results achieved using Virtualdub to resize and add subs, and the SKVCD template to encode in MPEG2 using TPMGEnc in 2 CD's , I was satisfied with the balance between quality and complexity.
Actually if you can use a lower resolution you should try to use a script and put the movie on 1CD. But if your standalone really does't allow you to go to a lower res and so you are stuck to a 2CD encoding, then you won't gain a lot of thing by using a script so you can continue as you do.

But there is a big issue in your method : adjusting the MAX value insteed of the CQ_VBR. That can't lead to a good result in every situation !

Quote:
But I have more experience now and I always open to try new things, so again, please tell me what thread I need to read to improve the video quality too.
Go on kvcd.net and see the guides on the right panel. They are a little bit old but far less than your actual method
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  #14  
03-17-2004, 06:28 AM
juancho juancho is offline
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@Phil:

Thanks a lot again

Juancho.
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  #15  
03-17-2004, 06:31 AM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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You're welcome.
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