Headac3he: Pro-Logic Problems...

Jellygoose · #1 05-21-2003, 04:09 AM

Hi all...

I got myself today a very cheap Pro_Logic 1 receiver. For my DVDs it works like a charm with Dolby Digital, no problems... My KVCDs however (Audio encoded as Surround 2) sound strange through the rear speakers... music is alright, but whenever there's talking, it sounds all distorted through the rear speakers. Somehow like if you talk while drinking water...

any ideas?

kwag · #2 05-21-2003, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jellygoose

Somehow like if you talk while drinking water...

any ideas?

Hi Jellygoose,

Yes, you probably encoded as "Stereo"

If you did, go back and re-encode your audio as "Dual channel"
If that doesn't fix it, then your receiver can't reproduce "Dolby Prologic II" signals

If that's the case, go back again and encode your audio as "Surround" and not as "Surround 2"

-kwag

Thor263 · #3 05-21-2003, 01:26 PM

Quote:

If that doesn't fix it, then your receiver can't reproduce "Dolby Prologic II" signals If that's the case, go back again and encode your audio as "Surround" and not as "Surround 2"

Hmm...I've always been under the impression that Prologic II (Surround 2) was backwards compatible w/ regular Prologic. I think that is the case.

kwag · #4 05-21-2003, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thor263

Hmm...I've always been under the impression that Prologic II (Surround 2) was backwards compatible w/ regular Prologic. I think that is the case.

I just re-read Jellygoose's post, and I see his receiver is a Prologic 1 (aka: "plain" Prologic

)
If that's the case, he must encode as Surround and not as Surround-2.
If he did encode as Surround-2, then that is the problem

-kwag

telemike · #5 05-21-2003, 03:12 PM

What is the difference in Surround-2 being decoded by Pro-Logic?

My DVD receiver has Dolby Digital and Dolby Pro-Logic (1).

kwag · #6 05-21-2003, 03:21 PM

Surround 2 has audio separation on the rear speakers. Regular Surround doesn't.

-kwag

Jellygoose · #7 05-22-2003, 07:39 AM

thanks for the replies... I did encode as Surround 2 Dual Channel... So since it's a Pro-Logic I decoder only, it might have problems with the rear channel seperation, and that's what causing the problems?
Did I get you right kwag?

Thor263 · #8 05-22-2003, 08:39 AM

I think I wasn't clear enough in my earlier reply - ProLogic II is backwards compatible with ProLogic - meaning that a ProLogic receiver can still play ProLogic II encoded material. Of course, it won't have the rear separation that a ProLogic II receiver would have. In my experience, I haven't had any problems encoding with Surround 2 and playing it back on my regular ProLogic receiver.

Check out this link - Mixing with Dolby Pro Logic II Technology. It's definitely geared to the professional, but still interesting.

Jellygoose · #9 05-22-2003, 09:01 AM

So what do you think would cause the distortion of the rear channels then?

Is my Bitrate of 112kb/sec too low maybe? What do you think causes this?

kwag · #10 05-22-2003, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jellygoose

Is my Bitrate of 112kb/sec too low maybe? What do you think causes this?

I encode all my KVCDs at 112Kbps surround-2, and they all sound sweet

-kwag

ovg64 · #11 05-22-2003, 03:05 PM

Heck even at 96kbps surround 2 they sound good to me, maybe is my system i dont now.

Jellygoose · #12 05-23-2003, 07:54 AM

so what is causing this...

is it the DVD-player maybe? or is the Pro Logic Decoder broken or something?

I'll try muxing a file as "surround" and see what will happen!
btw: how do you guys connect your Standalone with your receiver (what kind of cable? optical line-out ?)

kwag · #13 05-23-2003, 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jellygoose

so what is causing this...

is it the DVD-player maybe? or is the Pro Logic Decoder broken or something?

If your player has an audio jack, try listening with headphones. Or better, get an RCA->Phono jack adapter and listen to your DVD audio output with headphones. That way you can determine if it's the player or your receiver.

Quote:

I'll try muxing a file as "surround" and see what will happen!
btw: how do you guys connect your Standalone with your receiver (what kind of cable? optical line-out ?)

I use the Coaxial (digital) connector on mine.

-kwag

Thor263 · #14 05-23-2003, 02:38 PM

Quote:

btw: how do you guys connect your Standalone with your receiver (what kind of cable? optical line-out ?)

Optical line-out for me. But for ProLogic, I think all you need is just a L and R (since that is all VCRs have and they can send surround to the receiver). But if you are using coaxial or optical line-out, I would think it would be either an all or nothing thing since it is transmitted digitally. Unless of course there is something goofy with your receiver...ugh.

Jellygoose · #15 06-17-2003, 10:51 AM

Ok, I now tried a KVCD on my system, with audio encoded as Joint-Stereo, and it works!!!

The rear channels are all clean, no distortion!!

Any ideas on that?? I encoded all my KVCDs with Dual Channel, and none work with Pro-Logic!

what can I do??

kwag · #16 06-17-2003, 01:24 PM

On my receiver, if I encode "joint stereo", my rear channels get screwed up

I hear glitches every now and then on scenes that surround 2 is turned on.
If I encode as "dual channel", everything is fine. My receiver is a "Prologic II", which does produce rear channel separation on surround 2 encoded audio.

Have you tried encoding as "Stereo"

-kwag

Boulder · #17 06-17-2003, 02:18 PM

In general, joint stereo is not recommended with MP2. The MP2 encoders just don't do a good job with it. So I'm with Kwag, try stereo

Jellygoose · #18 06-17-2003, 03:59 PM

Not yet, but I suppose it will work, when Joint Stereo worked...
Well I'm actually already thinking about getting a new receiver anyway, but I'm not sure whether my Dual Channel KVCDs will play properly on it...
This one seems to be a good deal:
Pioneer VSX-C100
http://www.electronica24.de/app/cata...=preise-suchen

heard of it, or is there any reference yet? This actually might be a good idea, not only to make a list for KVCD compatible DVD players, but also for Audio-Receiver that play Headache MP2s for KVCD properly, together with what setting is best...

Jellygoose · #19 06-17-2003, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boulder

In general, joint stereo is not recommended with MP2. The MP2 encoders just don't do a good job with it. So I'm with Kwag, try stereo

Well this is actually not my concern, as I already know Dual Channel is best, and I encoded my whole KVCD collection with Dual Channel... Now I just need a godd Receiver to play those!

kwag · #20 06-17-2003, 04:10 PM

Hi Jellygoose,

Your best bet is to take your KVCD to a store, and test the audio on various Prologic II receivers

-kwag