LegacyBox rip off!

[lordsmurf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haunted_TBC

Yes, that is exactly what happened, my keyboard (or device, not sure which) removed it because it doesn’t know the word “deinterlacing” (but it does know “interlacing).”

That makes sense, and I've edited the above posts to reflect this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary34

You’re right. I typed that wrong. .

I seem to have missed where you typed that at all here. The first interlace/deinterlace comment was mentioned by Haunted_TBC. Methinks some more folks cross-posted threads, too many tabs open!

[Gary34]

Well I’m sure your busy and skim read some of this. You probably expect a paragraph that talks about one point that is made at the beginning of the paragraph and not a run on paragraph but I got you.

Anyways I’ll watch that when I’m posting.

[lordsmurf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary34

Well I’m sure your busy and skim read some of this. You probably expect a paragraph that talks about one point that is made at the beginning of the paragraph and not a run on paragraph but I got you.
Anyways I’ll watch that when I’m posting.

Actually speed reader more than skimmer. But those walls of text bog me down.

This thread has meandered some -- all good stuff, mind you -- and the interlace topic came from left field. Haunted_TBC seems to attributed it to you, but then you never discussed interlace.

[chazdo2]

Thanks! My friend has a conversion kit Im going to play with it then probably send you mine! Very nice of you!

[lordsmurf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by chazdo2

Thanks! My friend has a conversion kit Im going to play with it then probably send you mine! Very nice of you!

The more you play the tapes, the more you risk damage. Just remember that.

[Haunted_TBC]

Apparently, the “red sticker” scourge is starting to get really bad at Legacy Box/Kodak Digitizing/Southtree:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBnDZojOwQw
Roughly half of tapes sent to them get the sticker now regardless of tape?
(Partly unrelated, but looks like several PV-9451 with no TBCs?)

[Aya_Rei]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haunted_TBC

Apparently, the “red sticker” scourge is starting to get really bad at Legacy Box/Kodak Digitizing/Southtree:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBnDZojOwQw
Roughly half of tapes sent to them get the sticker now regardless of tape?
(Partly unrelated, but looks like several PV-9451 with no TBCs?)

Certainly looks that way, piles upon piles of consumer VCRs and Macbooks, quality be damned.

This might be slightly unrelated but I remember heading down to local transfer service to get some super8 film reels converted and was able to talk to guy who operates the conversion of tapes and film, even got to see a good chunk of the digitizing equipment he used. Should've probably stayed a bit longer to see what other VCRs were in their collection, along with capture cards and TBCs, but I do remember seeing a JVC S-VHS ET unit along with a Panasonic ES15.

Asked the guy what TBC(s) he used and he replied with that he always uses the internal TBC in the VCRs, though he did told me that he does use a frame TBC in the chain if it is absolutely needed, so it seems like they do use some frame TBC(s) which is good. I just never got a good look at exactly what models were being used.

So hey, at least this local service seems to know what they are doing and are using proper equipment for the job. Doing a much better job than Legacybox could've ever dreamed of

[Haunted_TBC]

Came across a new video posted by popular video VWestlife, where he goes into great detail about how bad the ElCrapo and EasyCrap devices are. He actually shows footage of Emerald Coast’s workflow as an example of people doing a disservice to customers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NuquTDhjGY

[latreche34]

Don't be fooled by these single person shops that are criticizing legacybox, They are as bad as them, Sure they run moldy tapes on their machines because they have cheap crap equipement, it's not a big deal if it clogs or break, I'm not saying that legacybox use high end machines, they refuse them probably for safety purposes, they employ these young kids and they don't want them to get sick and sue them, There is at least 3 shops that are doing this sort of videos about "how they do it better" with elgato and VHS/DVD combos hooked up to cheap Dell laptops.

[lordsmurf]

I ran into that mold situation recently.

Somebody had a slop shop convert his videos, and their work sucked. So he sent it to me next, to try to get better quality. In his batch of tapes, one tape was heavily molded. But I'm unable to process about half of his tapes, because the slop shop did not clean the deck between uses. You can easily see which tapes were transferred after that mold tape, because those have mold on them as well. And no, it's not a case of "maybe they all had mold", due to how and where it now exist in the clamshells. So now he has multiple tapes with mold, due to it being transferred tape to tape, for several tapes.

He now requires SpecBros, for proper cleaning and transfer. Not let another idiot handle them, and likely lose his childhood memories as a result.

Quality shops do not touch mold tapes, because they don't want to risk $$,$$$ of equipment. Mold needs special cleaning, and then special mold-only transfer setups isolated from other tape use.

[Haunted_TBC]

Quote:

Originally Posted by latreche34

Don't be fooled by these single person shops that are criticizing legacybox, They are as bad as them, Sure they run moldy tapes on their machines because they have cheap crap equipement, it's not a big deal if it clogs or break… There is at least 3 shops that are doing this sort of videos about "how they do it better" with elgato and VHS/DVD combos hooked up to cheap Dell laptops.

Yeah, I wouldn’t trust Emerald Coast or their name-dropped business model/inspiration, GotMemories.
Emerald Coast actually responded to the VWestlife video defending their use of ElCrapo, saying:

Quote:

I love my elgatos! I have experienced a few of these issues but usually it's a combination of the tape and the player. Different player usually and unplugging and plugging back in fixes a lot of the issues. But I do agree there are better ways to get a little better quality but not with the way pricing has been driven down with large companies. I let all my customers know what I'm using and show sample footage and review all the footage with the customers in house before they pay. If they want better quality captures I guess send them to you?
What's your business name?

He doesn't realize that VWestlife doesn’t run a business, but regardless, I find it hard to take seriously the claims made by both Sean from Emerald Coast and Phil Thomas from GotMemories that the “industry” is in a pricing race to the bottom. If anything, it’s likely more of an excuse they make for themselves as why their own workflows “suffice” (and why their prices are high!)

[latreche34]

For someone who is not a tech savvy and does not want to bother with doing it himself because he doesn't know how to even if he has a cheap VCR and an Elgato I can see these type of business may fit the bill. But for the rest, they think these guys are professionals and use "professional" gear and their mom and pop VCR won't cut it not knowing that these guys are exactly using the same crappy mom and pop VCR and a chinese crappy capture device.

Just few days ago we had an argument over at VH with someone who thinks these guys and the likes like Kodak are the official professionals that use equipement better than say a high end S-VHS VCR from JVC. A guy like this is a perfect victim for them and there are a lot of them unfortunately.

[lordsmurf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by latreche34

the likes like Kodak

"Kodak" = LegacyBox. Same company.

[mrmuy97]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haunted_TBC

Yeah, I wouldn’t trust Emerald Coast or their name-dropped business model/inspiration, GotMemories.

I can at least respect Got Memories because it does come through in his videos that he genuinely cares about helping his customers, and he tries to do the best he can with what he has. You can hear his contempt for the borderline fraudulent work of LegacyBox and their ilk. Now, it's true that he has settled for using low-end workflows and isn't a digitizing master by any means. But he's not claiming to be focused on super high-end quality or having the best equipment. His business is to just get stuff transferred and looking good enough to be watchable by his customers, especially after they've been shafted by one of the big trash companies.

I've run through several of his videos and always saw him treating the tapes respectfully, and carefully doing the troubleshooting he knew how to. He is light years ahead of LegacyBox. And if his customers are being treated well and are 100% satisfied by getting a "good enough" digital file of their tape, then he's not hurting anyone, unless he were to promise someone that he'd provide the highest quality digitization available.

On the other hand, the Emerald Coast Digitizing guy is clearly just trying to capitalize on an opportunity to make money by imitating what he saw from the Got Memories YouTube videos. His videos show a constant lack of care for delicate items and wrong or questionable practices. I would never want him anywhere near anything of mine or anyone I know. He's a small increment better than LegacyBox.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haunted_TBC

Emerald Coast actually responded to the VWestlife video defending their use of ElCrapo, saying:

Quote:

He doesn't realize that VWestlife doesn’t run a business

He doesn't think VW does this as a business. His "I guess send them to you?" and "What's your business name?" comments are just immature, facetious, sarcastic remarks. It's a passive-aggressive way of saying "At least I started a business to do this, and you didn't," which is trying to deflect the negative criticism aimed at his work and making the argument that "I do this as a business, therefore I am an authority." We've all seen people like this in different industries who get triggered and lash out when the facts of their poor work are brought to their attention. Yet another reason to avoid.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haunted_TBC

I find it hard to take seriously the claims made by both ... that the “industry” is in a pricing race to the bottom.

You can take them very seriously. But just because it applies to them doesn't mean it applies to every other business. The way they (and many other business owners) think is only in terms of "I have to be the least expensive or else people won't buy from me." AKA the high volume + low profit business model where you are competing based on price. So, due to their viewpoint, they are telling the truth when they say that LegacyBox being less expensive is difficult for them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haunted_TBC

If anything, it’s likely more of an excuse they make for themselves as why their own workflows “suffice”

I don't think they're making excuses for their quality. I think it's more likely that they have zero interest in the technicalities of high-quality capture, and literally just don't care. E.g. the typical "VHS was always horrible quality anyway!!" justification.

[latreche34]

Most people think of them like this youtube guy but they are actually getting Legacy box quality.

[NJRoadfan]

As I mentioned in the past, analog to digital workflows don't scale too well. You aren't going to be able to maintain quality with a low price on top of a high volume of tapes. That and having to maintain all that equipment in good working order.

I have been approached a few times on whether I could do tape transfers for people. Just about every time I've asked what they had, they usually want dozens of tapes transferred. Not going to happen as I have a day job, plus they wouldn't like the cost I would charge per tape. Generally I stick to friends and family and transferring a handful of tapes from time to time. The last "big" job I attempted to take on ended quickly when I found out how crappy Sony's early 90s 8mm tapes were.

[Gary34]

Quote:

Originally Posted by latreche34

Don't be fooled by these single person shops that are criticizing legacybox, They are as bad as them, Sure they run moldy tapes on their machines because they have cheap crap equipement, it's not a big deal if it clogs or break, I'm not saying that legacybox use high end machines, they refuse them probably for safety purposes, they employ these young kids and they don't want them to get sick and sue them, There is at least 3 shops that are doing this sort of videos about "how they do it better" with elgato and VHS/DVD combos hooked up to cheap Dell laptops.

Gotmemories is using Elgatos and really bad hardware with no TBCs and he charges 30 to 50 a tape to run your tapes through composite VCRs with bad capture cards and captures to MP4. He uses an Elgato on DV too. No FireWire. Gotmemories has a ton of transfers going at the same time and it’s just him there. He said he does that alone so he can’t watch all of those transfers too closely.

He is still way better than Legacybox. I have talked to an ex Legacybox employee now and he has sent me photos of the inside of that place and their operation. They would run a tape deck to a Funai DVD recorder fed composite to it. Once the tape was transferred, if it was a digital order, they would rip the DVD in a batch processor and then make a 2MBPs MP4 of the DVD rip. They have what they call "PODS" where 1 technician would be operating 80 tape decks at once. Each 16 players would have a multiviewer (a composite only security system) and they would be able to preview the video payback. Thing is that a tech could run 80 tapes at once but there was never a known way to have them care enough about hours passed through the machine for cleaning, if the tape itself was bad, etc. There are around 32 of these stations in a warehouse. Some pods have 8mm, MiniDV, and VHS. Some have just 8mm,some have just VHS. Betamax and PAL were segregated in their own pod called "foreign" Think of the heat dissipation also. You're talking about 5 Mac pros per pod, plus bodies, plus machines, plus so much more. Photo scanning, film transfers, and reel to Reel were a disaster also.

They have two eighteen wheelers over their with parts machines wilting away. Useful parts. Main board, pinch rollers, hell even buttons and drums. Management would say it’s easier to buy new machines than fix them.

They don’t even check for blue screens or anything since the transfer process didn't alow for it. They also record a max of 6 hour tapes. Never SLP 8 hours since the transfers took too long. The mentality was it's "good enough for consumer tapes". The customer wouldn't know the difference and they would have chopped it up to it being "vintage" and "old". Each Mac pro (Intel) when they went digital has 16 Haupauge Composite+Audio capture devices chained to it via USB and bespoke software that could run all 16 at once running through 1 Sonnet USB 3 PCIe card.

To top it off they charge you in advance then you can’t get your money back when you figure out you’ve been royally f’ed because it’s been like 6 months since they charged your card.

If anyone has any questions about the Legacybox workflow then ask. I’ll upload some pictures later.

[Gary34]

Bespoke is a proprietary software made for that system. They use ankr usb hubs and chain 4 capture cards per hub. So they have these boxes going usb out to a hub, then to a PCLE card. The work bespoke is defined as made for a particular consumer or user. There is no official name for the software.

The front they put up is they care because they know their customers care about it. They ensure they do while they throw out quality for the sake of time. What happened was they got too big for their britches and couldn't keep up with demand. They pocketed profits, expanded but never considered going for better quality or better care and instead took inspiration from LITERALLY AMAZON on how to streamline their processes.

Of here's a fun fact, the audio tracks on their captures is backwards. Whoever coded the capture software didn't set up the left and right channels correctly. So a rocket flying right to left on screen will have the audio be inverted.

Every... Single... Tape.

Also there warehouse storage isn’t climate controlled.

[latreche34]

Post pictures then. What kind of VCRs they use?

[Gary34]

I have quite a few pictures. The only reason I haven’t posted them yet is the guy wants me to get rid of the metadata first so I have to figure out how to do that. You’ll know I’m telling the truth once you see the pictures. There’s also an 11 second video of pallets of boxes of tapes they had setting outside for days because of something they were doing in the warehouse.

They had a specific set of model machines they would buy since they were more robust and the insides were swappable.

Panasonic AG-1330
Panasonic AG-2560
JVC HR-S series decks
Sony SLV-700's
And a few more.

I sent him a link to this chat and asked his permission to post everything. He didn’t want to post it himself.