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  #1  
02-20-2004, 01:03 AM
vdk_au vdk_au is offline
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Could someone tell me the best possible digital audio extractor. I've heard about EAC, is this any good? I only started using easy cd-da extractor and still want to keep using it for burning my cd's but just want to know the best ripper. The program i use is good because i can easily add cd-text and so on to the audio.

One thing.....why are there different quality rippers? Why can't the digital audio be extracted exactly the same as the original....If the original was created as a data cd (iso), it would be possible to get it the same as the original? (you only have to copy it)
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  #2  
02-20-2004, 04:09 AM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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First, you received answes to this question in the thread you open 5 days ago on the same subject

Second, ALL EXTRACTORS work perfectly well if you extract at x1. The problems occurs when you want to extract to greater speed.

I remember you that CD Audio are burnt in mode2, like our KVCD, and NOT in mode1 like your iso DATA-CD. In mode 2 there is NO ERROR CORRECTION PROTOCOL.
That means that is you misread a single bit, you corrupt your audio stream.

However, the error correction is somehow done in the extractors and that is where the difference occurs : different software, different way to try to recreate informations that were badly read by the CD drive.
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  #3  
02-20-2004, 07:57 AM
kwag kwag is offline
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Eee, excuse me Phil, but you are partly right and partly wrong
There is quite a bit of error correctin in Audio CDs: http://www.ee.washington.edu/consele...udio2/95x7.htm

As to vdk_au's question, the best audio ripping method, is called "CD Paranoia", and it's available in some (most?) of the best ripping programs, like CDex (my favorite).
This mode, can basically reconstruct most scratched audio CDs data, and deliver a great extracted audio, ready for compression to any other format (OGG, MP3, etc.
Here are the methods available in CDEX:
Code:
The following Ripping Method settings are available:



Standard: the standard CDex jitter correction algorithm. When the jitter correction is enabled, extra data (overlap) is read from the CD (between two adjacent reads). This overlap area is used detect the jitter errors by simply comparing the overlap area with the data gathered during the previous read.

Paranoia Overlap Only: Basically the same as the Standard Ripping Method, except that it uses the cdparanoia library.
Paranoia No Verify: Uses the full cdparanoia ripping method, except that the verification option is disabled.


Paranoia No Scratch Repair: Neither look for scratches nor perform scratch-tolerant  synchronization during verification. 
Paranoia Full: All the available cdparanoia options are enabled.
I always use "Paranoia Full"

-kwag
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  #4  
02-20-2004, 12:39 PM
jorel jorel is offline
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" paranoia full" is my brain working...(when works)!


i'm testing and is very cool:
Tobest Audio Maestro 2.6
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  #5  
02-20-2004, 05:00 PM
vdk_au vdk_au is offline
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To kwag's reply, does easy cd-da extractor have the ripping method "CD Paranoia"?

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  #6  
02-20-2004, 06:45 PM
kwag kwag is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vdk_au
To kwag's reply, does easy cd-da extractor have the ripping method "CD Paranoia"?
I think so.
But check their site.

-kwag
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  #7  
02-20-2004, 07:39 PM
vdk_au vdk_au is offline
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All it has is a setting 'read mode. The different options are normal, audio resync, advanced audio resync, error recovery and error recovery repair. This is what they have on their help: Would it be wise to leave it on error recovery and repair all the time, even if the disc is clean. (slowing down ripping times doesn't bother me). Would there be any effects. And is this the same method as you was talking about.

Read mode

Normal; This is the default mode; Reads audio as fast as possible. There will be no problems if the CD-reader that is used for reading the CD supports digital audio extraction correctly and the audio CD is clean and contains no scratches.

Audio Resync; Some older CD-readers may not be able to extract audio data perfectly (you will hear this as extra clicks or pops in the sound). If you don't get clean copy with the default mode (Normal), try this mode instead.

Advanced Audio Resync; If you did not get clean copies with Audio Resync, you can try this mode instead.

Error Recovery; Don't fail on errors, skip errors.

Error Recovery & Repair; Detect faults (scratches, invalid sectors) on an audio CD and try to repair them.
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  #8  
02-21-2004, 08:30 PM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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I just read an extractor top10 (in french) and the first one was "Exact Audio Copy". CDex is second, Easy CD-DA was only 4th.
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  #9  
02-22-2004, 08:33 AM
Crackhead Crackhead is offline
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I use EAC and can only recommend it!!
It is not easy to use but there are tons of great tutorials in the i-net!

greetz, Crackhead
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  #10  
02-22-2004, 11:10 AM
rds_correia rds_correia is offline
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Although it's kind of hard to newcomers, ExactAudioCopy is definitly the Ripping tool to use when talking about CDDA.
I've done so many tests with audio extraction in the past that I don't care about any other tools besides EAC.
Plus it's free, if you send the guy (Andre) a nice postcard
Once in a while EAC will refuse to read some AudioCDs and that's when I use Feurio that always came 2nd on my testings.
CDex is an alternative but it had some ups and downs in the past.
Just remember: EAC is truelly the only piece of software that will try to read and write all bits your audio tracks!
Before using it try a guide on the net: search for "eac AND tutorial" using google and you'll find the coaster factory great tut.
Cheers
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  #11  
02-22-2004, 11:23 AM
kwag kwag is offline
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I think EAC and CDex are already "a-la-par".
They use the same method ( Paranoia ), which is basically the way the audio track is ripped (with multiple retries, etc. )
On Linux, one of the best ripper is "GRIP", which also incorporates "Paranoia", and actually had it way before EAC or CDex.
Most Windoze programs took those techniques from the U*IX world.

-kwag
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  #12  
02-22-2004, 11:31 AM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kwag
Most Windoze programs took those techniques from the U*IX world.
I would have say from the Atari's world
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  #13  
02-22-2004, 11:39 AM
kwag kwag is offline
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  #14  
02-24-2004, 01:27 AM
vdk_au vdk_au is offline
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So in other words, just use EAC. I'm going to use eac for ripping but for for the rest i will use easy cd-da extractor such as mp3 encoding and i find it is good for adding cd-text, it is really simple.
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  #15  
02-24-2004, 08:27 AM
rds_correia rds_correia is offline
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Fair enough.
As long as Adaptec/Roxio don't buy Easy CDDA extractor
If so, then I definitly don't advise you on using it at all
Oh! Just be sure to use Lame to mp3 encode it.
You'll find a nice RazorLame GUI since Lame uses CLI.
Cheers
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  #16  
03-17-2004, 05:06 PM
audioslave audioslave is offline
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@kwag
Not quite true about the error correction libraries in the two programs, sorry. CDex uses the paranoia library and EAC does not. EAC have far more advanced error correction. The paranoia library haven't been updated for a year or so (if I remeber correctly) + EAC can use a read offset for the CD extraction.

About the error corrections: I have MANY examples of CDex reporting an error free rip (Paranoia Full) but when I listened to the tracks there were clearly errors (clicks and pops). I have NEVER had that problem with EAC. If there are any suspicious positions in the rip you get a log that tells you exactly where it occured and so it's easy to check. The only "problem" is that EAC isn't very user friendly and there are many settings to do to get the best possible CD rip you can get. With the read offset correctly set you get 100% identical copies of the original CD. No other program can do that (yet!).
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03-17-2004, 06:36 PM
kwag kwag is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audioslave
The paranoia library haven't been updated for a year or so (if I remeber correctly) + EAC can use a read offset for the CD extraction.
Yep. You're right about that. Look: http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.p...DRip/paranoia/
Quote:
About the error corrections: I have MANY examples of CDex reporting an error free rip (Paranoia Full) but when I listened to the tracks there were clearly errors (clicks and pops). I have NEVER had that problem with EAC. If there are any suspicious positions in the rip you get a log that tells you exactly where it occured and so it's easy to check. The only "problem" is that EAC isn't very user friendly and there are many settings to do to get the best possible CD rip you can get. With the read offset correctly set you get 100% identical copies of the original CD. No other program can do that (yet!).
But I guess if you are ripping fairly "scratch free" CDs, the CDex does it's job fine
But I'll take a look again at EAC, specially for heavily scratched CDs

-kwag
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  #18  
03-18-2004, 01:27 AM
kermix kermix is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rds_correia
Oh! Just be sure to use Lame to mp3 encode it.
I haven't ripped any CDs in a while, but you can also make Ogg Vorbis work with EAC as an external encoder. Right now I think I prefer it to LAME MP3.

And really, CLI encoders aren't that difficult to use with EAC. It's just a matter of figuring out what CL options you want to use for the encode, and typing them in a box in EAC's config. That's about it.
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  #19  
03-20-2004, 06:49 PM
audioslave audioslave is offline
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@Kwag
Yes, of course you can use CDex to rip your CD's. Most of the time it works just fine. But if you're an audiophile like me (I'm a musician myself) I would recommend using EAC instead. Mainly because of the read offsets and the error corrections of this particular program. I love it!!!

P.S. From version 0.95 prebeta 5 it now supports AccurateRip which practically finds your CD/DVD drivers read offset for you. Read more and download at:
http://www.exactaudiocopy.de
and
http://www.accuraterip.com
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  #20  
04-08-2004, 01:28 AM
muaddib muaddib is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audioslave
@kwag
Not quite true about the error correction libraries in the two programs, sorry. CDex uses the paranoia library and EAC does not. EAC have far more advanced error correction. The paranoia library haven't been updated for a year or so (if I remeber correctly) + EAC can use a read offset for the CD extraction.

About the error corrections: I have MANY examples of CDex reporting an error free rip (Paranoia Full) but when I listened to the tracks there were clearly errors (clicks and pops). I have NEVER had that problem with EAC. If there are any suspicious positions in the rip you get a log that tells you exactly where it occured and so it's easy to check. The only "problem" is that EAC isn't very user friendly and there are many settings to do to get the best possible CD rip you can get. With the read offset correctly set you get 100% identical copies of the original CD. No other program can do that (yet!).
I second that!
I made some tests too and found CDex reporting error free rip but there are audible errors.
IMO, EAC is really the best ripper at the moment.
And if you use EAC with LAME –alt-preset standard, you will get absolutely transparent music.
(thought transparency is too much subjective and personal to measure)

edit: Here is a link at HydrogenAudio about CDex full paranoia versus EAC secure mode
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