Quantcast KVCD: a Few Tweaks from the Standard? - digitalFAQ.com Forums [Archives]
  #1  
05-13-2002, 02:15 PM
gonz0 gonz0 is offline
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Like just about everyone, I was doubtful about the quality I could get on 1 CD. But I'm still fairly new to this and eager to learn, so I was willing to explore new ways of doing things. I downloaded the samples, burned them on a CD-RW, and they played on my Panasonic RV31 with no problems.

Now I was ready to create my own KVCDs. I wasn't sure where to set the CQ% at first, but I found a few guidelines on this site. Aspect ratio, of course, was another issue, but also found some good recommendations in these forums (352x352 worked great). It took about 4hrs to encode - would have taken less using TMPGs default encoder.

Then the results came in. I'm just amazed with the quality. It even looks great on my 1200x1600 monitor. I haven't been able to try SVCD because my player doesn't support it, but results I get are way better than the CBR VCDs I've been making even at high bitrates.

I'm curious to try this with my wife's Hindi films because those have always given me trouble. The constant bitrate MPEG really has a tough time managing all the motion and colors in these films.

Ultimately, this should be a huge timesaver. No more deciding where to split the mpeg. And no need to author additional CDs or build menus for the other CDs.

Here are some results from my first 2 videos:
Chicken Run 84min
CQ=78 at 352x480 File Size=717,627,960
aspect ratio (Video arrange method) = 352x352
23.976 fps
I could have gone much higher with this one since I have ~123Mb to spare, but the quality is great and it plays fine on my dvd player. There's a bit of a delay when I jump to a chapter (it's like it takes longer for the video to load because of the higher res), but it plays great after that. Anyone else seen this problem? The audio seems to be in sync, but it's hard to tell since this is claymation. The quality is great.

Bram Strokers Dracula 130min
1st try...
CQ=70 at 352x480 File Size=661,631,180
aspect ratio (Video arrange method) = 352x352
audio 128kbps stereo
23.976 fps
I had a lot of room to spare (~176Mb) so I thought I'd up the quality by 4 and increase the audio to 192kbps. I thought this would fit based on the guidelines of 100Mb/4%. Plus the audio would add ~60Mb - (160Mb total)

Second try...
CQ=74 at 352x480 File Size=848,434,300 (809Mb)
aspect ratio (Video arrange method) = 352x352
audio 192kbps joint stereo
23.976 fps
This might fit on a CD, but I decided to drop the audio back down to 128. (This should drop the file size down by ~60Mb. Then it should fit easily. The estimate was still pretty good (178Mb vs 160), but unfortunately I underestimated. Still, the fix was quite easy. Just reencode the audio and mux it into the video.

3rd try...
CQ=74 at 352x480 File Size=786,095,324
aspect ratio (Video arrange method) = 352x352
audio 128kbps joint stereo
23.976 fps

A few tweaks from the standard.
I checked the following 2 boxes:
"Output Bitstream for edit (closed GOP)" - supposed to help with chaptering
"Output YUV data as Basic YCbCr..." - supposed to give a better picture. Has anyone done tests on this to see if there's actually a difference?
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  #2  
05-13-2002, 05:01 PM
kwag kwag is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gonz0
Like just about everyone, I was doubtful about the quality I could get on 1 CD. But I'm still fairly new to this and eager to learn, so I was willing to explore new ways of doing things. I downloaded the samples, burned them on a CD-RW, and they played on my Panasonic RV31 with no problems.

Now I was ready to create my own KVCDs. I wasn't sure where to set the CQ% at first, but I found a few guidelines on this site. Aspect ratio, of course, was another issue, but also found some good recommendations in these forums (352x352 worked great). It took about 4hrs to encode - would have taken less using TMPGs default encoder.

Then the results came in. I'm just amazed with the quality. It even looks great on my 1200x1600 monitor. I haven't been able to try SVCD because my player doesn't support it, but results I get are way better than the CBR VCDs I've been making even at high bitrates.

I'm curious to try this with my wife's Hindi films because those have always given me trouble. The constant bitrate MPEG really has a tough time managing all the motion and colors in these films.

Ultimately, this should be a huge timesaver. No more deciding where to split the mpeg. And no need to author additional CDs or build menus for the other CDs.

Here are some results from my first 2 videos:
Chicken Run 84min
CQ=78 at 352x480 File Size=717,627,960
aspect ratio (Video arrange method) = 352x352
23.976 fps
I could have gone much higher with this one since I have ~123Mb to spare, but the quality is great and it plays fine on my dvd player. There's a bit of a delay when I jump to a chapter (it's like it takes longer for the video to load because of the higher res), but it plays great after that. Anyone else seen this problem? The audio seems to be in sync, but it's hard to tell since this is claymation. The quality is great.

Bram Strokers Dracula 130min
1st try...
CQ=70 at 352x480 File Size=661,631,180
aspect ratio (Video arrange method) = 352x352
audio 128kbps stereo
23.976 fps
I had a lot of room to spare (~176Mb) so I thought I'd up the quality by 4 and increase the audio to 192kbps. I thought this would fit based on the guidelines of 100Mb/4%. Plus the audio would add ~60Mb - (160Mb total)

Second try...
CQ=74 at 352x480 File Size=848,434,300 (809Mb)
aspect ratio (Video arrange method) = 352x352
audio 192kbps joint stereo
23.976 fps
This might fit on a CD, but I decided to drop the audio back down to 128. (This should drop the file size down by ~60Mb. Then it should fit easily. The estimate was still pretty good (178Mb vs 160), but unfortunately I underestimated. Still, the fix was quite easy. Just reencode the audio and mux it into the video.

3rd try...
CQ=74 at 352x480 File Size=786,095,324
aspect ratio (Video arrange method) = 352x352
audio 128kbps joint stereo
23.976 fps

A few tweaks from the standard.
I checked the following 2 boxes:
"Output Bitstream for edit (closed GOP)" - supposed to help with chaptering
"Output YUV data as Basic YCbCr..." - supposed to give a better picture. Has anyone done tests on this to see if there's actually a difference?
Hi gonz0:

Nice numbers Specially on the 130 minute dracula

I also experiment the 2 second delay when manually changing chapters.
I guess it has to do mainly because of the resolution and the VBR.

As for the Output YUV data as Basic YCbCr, I don't use it, because it darkens the picture too much. It gives me to high contrast in low light areas, and I loose detail. That's my visual interpretation.

BTW is that dracula movie in black and white? or is it color?

kwag
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  #3  
05-13-2002, 05:37 PM
gonz0 gonz0 is offline
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Thanks for the reply, and great job with the template. I'll try my next film without the YUV-YCbCr setting, and see if I notice a difference.

This dracula movie is the 1992 film with Gary Oldman, Winona Ryder, Keanu Reeves, Anthony Hopkins, etc. It's in color, but the colors tend to be dark - mostly night scenes as you'd expect. But there are a number of high motion scenes.
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05-13-2002, 05:42 PM
kwag kwag is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gonz0
Thanks for the reply, and great job with the template. I'll try my next film without the YUV-YCbCr setting, and see if I notice a difference.

This dracula movie is the 1992 film with Gary Oldman, Winona Ryder, Keanu Reeves, Anthony Hopkins, etc. It's in color, but the colors tend to be dark - mostly night scenes as you'd expect. But there are a number of high motion scenes.

Thanks gonz0:

I guess it's like "Sleepy Hollow". Very dark scenes but a lot of action.

I did that about 3 weeks ago at CQ=78 and also came out with room to spare

kwag
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  #5  
05-13-2002, 07:50 PM
TKS TKS is offline
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Hmm would simple colour correction in Tmpgenc help fix this up? I mean talking about the darkness of some movies... I havent experimented yet.

tks
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  #6  
05-13-2002, 08:07 PM
kwag kwag is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TKS
Hmm would simple colour correction in Tmpgenc help fix this up? I mean talking about the darkness of some movies... I havent experimented yet.

tks
Hi tks:

What I meant was if the movie has many dark scenes, it compresses very well, and that's why we can fit way over 120+ minutes in those type of movies.

Just like "The Matrix", "Don't say a word", etc.

The colors/brightness look just like the original movie.

kwag
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