Quantcast KVCD as Standard VCD? - digitalFAQ.com Forums [Archives]
  #1  
12-23-2003, 10:47 AM
raphaelf raphaelf is offline
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Hello to all!

This is for all who have picky players with non-standard VCD profiles. I have an AIWA portable DVD player (DV170 model) that can easily read all the KVCD profiles. However, every now and then, even with good CDR quality, it stops and skips or goes back or what not. After so much tweaking I had to accept that this player doesn't really like non-standard VCDs.
But then I also found out after a bit of studying, that I can still make KVCDs; burning it in NERO as standard VCD. This is how I did it:

1. Encode the movie in KVCD format as usual with 352x240 res. and KVCD notch matrix.
*I don't use filters anymore during encoding cause it makes the movie more blurry. Though, I still use Moviestacker for making a movie with subtitles.*
2. Encode the audio from AC3 to MP2, with whatever audio converter you like. I use headAC3he.
*You can use whatever audio bit rate you like as long as it's 112, 128, 160, 192 or 224.*
3. MUX the audio and video at TMPGEnc (simple or advanced). Load first the files THEN choose MPEG-1 VCD profile. Don't choose the non-standard profile.
4. After muxing, disregard the warning of underflows.
5. Go to NERO, choose Video-CD. Remember to leave the check on the VCD compliant option.
*Realize that NERO only checks the resolution if the file is VCD compliant or not, therefore, you can go around the compliance check even if your movie is variable bit rate by muxing as standard vcd at TMPGEnc. NERO is not also strict with the audio bit rate.*
6. After burning, you already have a KVCD-movie as a standard VCD that your player can easily play without the hassles of skipping or stopping in the middle of the movie.

Quality: Much better than a standard VCD with minimal to no blocks and mosquito noise.

This technique I have already used in encoding Charlie's Angels:Full Throttle, Die Another Day, Raiders of the Lost Ark and Temple of Doom, all in 2 discs, without any problem. You can also use this technique for VCDEasy instead of NERO.
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  #2  
12-23-2003, 10:59 AM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raphaelf
Quality: Much better than a standard VCD with minimal to no blocks and mosquito noise.
And only 1h20 per CD as in "VCD compliant" profile Nero auto pad video stream to be at CBR 1150. That's why you used two disc for those movies.

And with two discs, using a such low resolution is really sad.
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  #3  
12-23-2003, 11:30 AM
raphaelf raphaelf is offline
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Hi!

I think it's better than nothing at all, and it's a solution to a problem that I've had with 528x480 KVCDs or even with non-standard 352x240's without any extraneous video artefacts with my player. Right now, I don't have any intentions yet of changing my DVD player so therefore I have to compromise. A skipping movie or a low-res but better than standard vcd? I'll choose the second one anytime.
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  #4  
12-23-2003, 11:42 AM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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And did you tried to encode in MPEG2 and mux in SVCD ?
Your player do not support regular SVCD ?

(note: you started your post saying your player handle all KVCD profile, but in fact it does not handle anyone . Just to be abble to start the movie is not equivalent to handle a profile)
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  #5  
12-23-2003, 11:52 AM
raphaelf raphaelf is offline
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I check all my encoded movies with PowerDVD because of a feature called "Show Movie Information."

What I found out is that the max. bit rate all of my movies can go beyond 1.5Mbps or 1500kbps. I encode with a max. bit rate of 2500 and minimum of 600kbps. Sadly, the PowerDVD doesn't register beyond 1.5Mbps but it's safe to assume that the bit rate for a particular high-action scene is more than that because if it's only 1.5Mbps then I would have already seen macroblocks usually observed in standard vcds but there were none. And the lowest I have observed is about 800-900Kbps.

Therefore, I don't think my movie is in CBR mode because if it did then the bit rate would have registered in a certain particular video bitrate range only. But it did not! I hope you can check this out for yourself.
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  #6  
12-23-2003, 11:56 AM
raphaelf raphaelf is offline
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Sorry, but my player doesn't do SVCDs. But when I tried using the downloaded compatibility cd test, all of the tests worked well with the player.
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  #7  
12-23-2003, 04:47 PM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raphaelf
Therefore, I don't think my movie is in CBR mode because if it did then the bit rate would have registered in a certain particular video bitrate range only. But it did not! I hope you can check this out for yourself.
The movie is encoded in variable bitrate but it is padded to 1150 Bit/s when muxed in standard VCD.
Take a calc : you will see that all your movies length are near 10 Mb * number of minutes of the movie.
(80 min = 800 Mb, 100 min = 1000 Mb, and so on...).

Note: if you test tests of the sample disc worked well with the player that means that you can handle every kind of KVCD ! So you have to find why _your_ KVCD do not work. There must be something that you are doing wrong.
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  #8  
12-23-2003, 06:46 PM
raphaelf raphaelf is offline
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Hi, again!

Well, maybe...
1. After doing KVCD for more than a year,
2. Trying every bit of suggestion the forum has given,
3. Used the best CDRs available in our area (tried every branded CDRs like Verbatim, TDK and Pioneer),
4. Used Kwag's optimal script, and
5. Getting the same result (i.e. random skipping and stuttering movies only in my player, not with the computer and not related to low-action or low-light scenes)

Well, maybe... my player doesn't really like non-standard VCDs.
But I wonder why is my encoded VCD have minimal macroblocks and mosquito noise unlike a standard VCD (with 1150kbps CBR) usually have and to think that I haven't used any filters during encoding? Is it because of the VBR mode, or the KVCD notch matrix or both? Hmmm...

In any case, I'm satisfied with the results I got at present and will use it until I get another player in the near future. Thanks Dialhot for your comments.
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  #9  
12-23-2003, 06:57 PM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raphaelf
Well, maybe... my player doesn't really like non-standard VCDs.
But the sample CD is non standard VCD !
So that is strange that this one works and not others, no ?

Quote:
But I wonder why is my encoded VCD have minimal macroblocks and mosquito noise unlike a standard VCD (with 1150kbps CBR) usually have and to think that I haven't used any filters during encoding? Is it because of the VBR mode, or the KVCD notch matrix or both? Hmmm...
KVCD matrix is for a big part in this.
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  #10  
12-23-2003, 07:18 PM
raphaelf raphaelf is offline
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Yes, that's a bit strange, isn't it? One of the things I've been thinking is probably in the hardware (like a buffer memory or cache inside the player). Cause most of my movies will play well initially then the problem will creep up. Sometimes it's there and sometimes it's not. It's a bit irritating.

Well maybe I need to chop up the movie in chapters (another idea I've been playing around but haven't actually made). One chapter per track, that is. But the problem is that if I burn this type, then there'd be pauses in-between the chapters and that would also be a little bit irritating to watch with, isn't it?
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  #11  
12-23-2003, 07:29 PM
kwag kwag is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raphaelf

But I wonder why is my encoded VCD have minimal macroblocks and mosquito noise unlike a standard VCD (with 1150kbps CBR) usually have and to think that I haven't used any filters during encoding? Is it because of the VBR mode, or the KVCD notch matrix or both? Hmmm...
Perhaps, or maybe your player has a built-in "Faroudja" filtering chip set
What brand/model is your player

-kwag
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  #12  
12-23-2003, 07:31 PM
raphaelf raphaelf is offline
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It's an AIWA XD-DV170 portable DVD player.
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  #13  
12-23-2003, 07:39 PM
kwag kwag is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raphaelf
It's an AIWA XD-DV170 portable DVD player.
Ok. But you said that the compatibility image did play correctly, right
Those mpegs were muxed with BBMpeg. Not with TMPEG.
Have you tried muxing with BBMpeg

-kwag
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  #14  
12-23-2003, 07:44 PM
raphaelf raphaelf is offline
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Yes, tried as well with BBMpeg with the same problem/result.
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  #15  
12-24-2003, 04:23 AM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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The idea of the internal buffer can be the correct one. There is a buffer that is important in KVCD : the VBV buffer.

Did you set it to 0 (automatic) or to 40 (the correct value for MPEG1), or 112 (value for MPEG2) ?
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  #16  
12-25-2003, 03:41 AM
raphaelf raphaelf is offline
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A Happy Christmas to you all!

Sorry for the sudden silence, Dialhot, but the computer conked out and had to work afterwards...

Anyway, the VBV I have for encoding is 40.

I recall now that several months ago, I made a "Best of the Corrs" KVCD from an original DVD. The original files are continuous, e.g. vts_01_1 to vts_01_x. What I did is to take each song as a chapter thru SmartRipper and encode them as single files. I then burned them as non-standard VCD. The result is flawless playback.

So, if I use this for all the movies I'll encode the drawback is that it's very tedious to do them for each chapter. Correct me if I'm wrong but analyzing this, that maybe my player likes short tracks instead of one long track during playback.

Oh, well , should I make the VBV 0 (automatic)?
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  #17  
12-25-2003, 07:06 AM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raphaelf
So, if I use this for all the movies I'll encode the drawback is that it's very tedious to do them for each chapter. Correct me if I'm wrong but analyzing this, that maybe my player likes short tracks instead of one long track during playback.
That's sound soooooooo weird !

Quote:
Oh, well , should I make the VBV 0 (automatic)?
You should give that a chance. Try it.
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  #18  
12-25-2003, 10:24 AM
raphaelf raphaelf is offline
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Well, as weird as my player is I'll try experimenting again in a few days. Thanks for the advice, and I'll inform you later on the result.
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  #19  
12-25-2003, 12:46 PM
DigitalG DigitalG is offline
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Don't mean to sound like a n00b, but recently got a kvcd file (which was around 700 megs) and burnt it straght away, (the cue directed it?) It never worked on any of my DVD players though...

Can anyone help?

Thanks.
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  #20  
12-25-2003, 08:01 PM
raphaelf raphaelf is offline
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Hi, DigitalG and a Happy Christmas!

Well, if you're going to ask my cent's worth, there are factors to consider and one of them is your player's compatibility with the KVCD. Try downloading the KVCD-compatibility test CD (if you haven't yet used it) found in the 'download' area, burn it and play. If the test CD works then maybe some configuration in your encoding process is not right.

Another suggestion: why don't you make a separate topic in the KVCD forum so that we can focus well on your problem and for a starter, how about giving us a rundown on how did you encode your KVCD movie and how you prepared and burned it.

That's only a suggestion but I hope I have helped you.
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