Quantcast KVCD: would Others Post Their Procedures? - digitalFAQ.com Forums [Archives]
  #1  
01-02-2003, 02:22 PM
SansGrip SansGrip is offline
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I have some thoughts going through my head, and am trying to pin down the procedure most people use for encoding (the manual way, rather than acp or DVD2SVCD). Personally, I do it like this:

1. Obtain source files, either VOBs or AVIs
2. Separate AC3/PCM audio
3. Adjust audio length, if necessary
4. Encode audio with HeadAC3he
5. Load source file in VirtualDub and get border sizes
6. Enter information into FitCD to obtain cropping/resizing parameters
7. Create an appropriate Avisynth script including Sampler()
8. Make sample strips to determine correct CQ or CQ_VBR
9. Comment Sampler() line
10. Encode
11. Mux audio and video in bbMPEG
12. Author with VCDEasy
13. Burn with CDRWIN

If others could post their procedures I'd be grateful, as I'm trying to find points of similarity for a potential project .
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  #2  
01-02-2003, 02:30 PM
kwag kwag is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SansGrip

as I'm trying to find points of similarity for a potential project .
On boy, that sounds like 2003 is going to be interesting

Your procedure is almost identical to the one I use, except I haven't used Vdub to get border sizes. Is there that much difference to doing it with Vdub than to let FitCD calculate them
I also let VCDEasy do the burn.


-kwag
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  #3  
01-02-2003, 02:34 PM
urban tec urban tec is offline
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I'm the same as Kwag almost identical to my method apart from the vdub part.
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  #4  
01-02-2003, 02:47 PM
SansGrip SansGrip is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kwag
I haven't used Vdub to get border sizes. Is there that much difference to doing it with Vdub than to let FitCD calculate them
FitCD won't calculate the size of the borders on the existing source material. That's the part for which I use VDub.

Quote:
I also let VCDEasy do the burn.
I had a problem getting cdrdao to work with my burner, but I've not tried it with the latest version of VCDEasy yet.
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  #5  
01-02-2003, 04:08 PM
kwag kwag is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SansGrip
FitCD won't calculate the size of the borders on the existing source material. That's the part for which I use VDub.
I didn't get that , maybe too much alcohol from New Year's eve on my system
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  #6  
01-02-2003, 04:55 PM
black prince black prince is offline
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@SansGrip,

4. Encode audio with HeadAC3he

In this step, I wait until after creating video file (.m1v) and then
create the audio with HeadAC3he. Sometimes audio will need
adjusting if video comes out too large or too small

5. Load source file in VirtualDub and get border sizes

Cropping with VirtualDub or Tmpgenc is easier than with FitCD,
because you can visually see what your doing. SansGrip and
Mauddib are working on a way to call VirtualDub via FitCD and
everything could be done within FitCD.

7. Create an appropriate Avisynth script including Sampler()

Here's the part where your decisions will either create a great video
movie or a failure. How you decide which resolution to use, which
filters have the best results for your video type, what will fit on 1 or 2
CD's for the movie lenght, widescreen vs fullscreen encodes, and
more. I feel the most common video type and settings should be
discussed as samples (e.g. KVCDx3 CQ or CQ_VBR).

-black prince
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  #7  
01-02-2003, 05:01 PM
black prince black prince is offline
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@SansGrip,

I forgot, plenty of screenshots, e.g. bbMPEG, FitCD, avi sample scripts,
etc.

-black prince
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  #8  
01-02-2003, 05:16 PM
SansGrip SansGrip is offline
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I have an idea for guessing a good starting value for automated sample encoding... Theoretically if one knew the frame count, resolution and how much of the frame was actual information (as opposed to borders) it should be possible to arrive at a pretty good estimate of the quality value to use. I've tried this out manually and had promising results, but it's too long-winded to do every time unless it's automated.

In order to do this in a program one would need to enter the cropping and resize values too, so I figure if I'm going to implement that in a program I might as well make it do the resize part of FitCD's job as well.

Essentially I'm thinking of putting together an "all-in-one" tool for KVCD encoding. At first it would incorporate the functionality of both FitCD and KVCDP, but it could in theory be expanded to include automatic audio extraction from AVIs (properly handling both PCM and AC3), hands-free encoding with HeadAC3he and TMPGEnc, and could even duplicate the important parts of VCDEasy via vcdimager and cdrdao.

I think before I start planning this in too much detail I should check out acp, because it sounds like the two might be doing the same job .

Anyway, that's why I was asking the question. Feedback appreciated.
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  #9  
01-02-2003, 07:25 PM
kwag kwag is offline
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Hi SansGrip,

Please correct me if I'm wrong. If I understand it correctly, this is the way I would get my "correct" borders with Vdub.
I open my clean .avs with Vdub. That is, no resizing or addborders on the script. I add the "null transform" filter and crop the top and bottom. For example, I got 56 on top and 59 on bottom. So if my targer resolution is 528x480, it would subtract 480 - 57 -59 = 366. So my resizing would be "LanczosResize( 528, 366 )" and my borders would be "AddBorders( 0, 56, 0, 59 )"

Actually if I want one block overscan, then lanczos would read "LanczosResize( 512, 250 )" ( 528 -16 ) ( 266 -16 )

Is this the correct procedure, or did I miss something

Edit: On add borders would be: "AddBorders( 16, 56, 16, 59 )" because of the one block overscan. Forgot to add the 16's.

-kwag
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  #10  
01-02-2003, 07:56 PM
SansGrip SansGrip is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kwag
If I understand it correctly, this is the way I would get my "correct" borders with Vdub.
That's almost the way I do it, with the difference that I note the border sizes and new dimensions I obtain through VDub, then enter those into FitCD. It'll then work out all the cropping and resizing for me.

I don't bother using AddBorders in Avisynth, I just set TMPGEnc to use "center" arrangement and it handles that for me .
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  #11  
01-02-2003, 08:00 PM
kwag kwag is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SansGrip
Quote:
Originally Posted by kwag
If I understand it correctly, this is the way I would get my "correct" borders with Vdub.
That's almost the way I do it, with the difference that I note the border sizes and new dimensions I obtain through VDub, then enter those into FitCD. It'll then work out all the cropping and resizing for me.

I don't bother using AddBorders in Avisynth, I just set TMPGEnc to use "center" arrangement and it handles that for me .
But then what are you doing, cropping in AviSynth?
Also, for what I see in the way I just did it above, there's no need for FitCD . My aspect is correct with the manual calculations

-kwag
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  #12  
01-02-2003, 08:09 PM
SansGrip SansGrip is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kwag
But then what are you doing, cropping in AviSynth?
Yep, using the values from FitCD.

Quote:
Also, for what I see in the way I just did it above, there's no need for FitCD . My aspect is correct with the manual calculations
I'm not sure, but I think that way will fail with anamorphic source. Also it won't be rounded correctly compared to the values FitCD suggests.

Basically you're using VDub to find out how big the borders are in the source material. You then transfer those values over to the "film pixel" textboxes in FitCD and proceed as normal, except now you're cropping those borders in Avisynth before doing anything else (except stuff like Telecide). This makes your script run faster because the filters have to process fewer pixels.
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  #13  
01-02-2003, 09:26 PM
muaddib muaddib is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SansGrip
If others could post their procedures I'd be grateful, as I'm trying to find points of similarity for a potential project .
Your procedure is almost identical to the one I use, except I let VCDEasy do the burn, and extract the DVD chapters with ChapterXtractor.
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  #14  
01-02-2003, 10:18 PM
deltaboy deltaboy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kwag
So if my targer resolution is 528x480, it would subtract 480 - 57 -59 = 366. So my resizing would be "LanczosResize( 528, 366 )" and my borders would be "AddBorders( 0, 56, 0, 59 )"
so KWAG... was it you or the calculator that had too much eggnog??? heheh sorry man, had to be done.

anyway, after you AddBorders and get your correct output resolution, what are you selecting as your Source Aspect Ratio and how do you determine that?

here is my procedure:

01. Obtain source files, either VOBs or AVIs
02. Separate AC3/PCM audio
03. Adjust audio length, if necessary
05. Encode audio with HeadAC3he
06. Create an appropriate Avisynth script (with cropping and resizing) including Sampler()
07. Make sample strips to determine correct CQ
08. Encode
09. Mux audio and video in TMPGenc
10. Author and burn with VCDEasy
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  #15  
01-02-2003, 10:52 PM
kwag kwag is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deltaboy
so KWAG... was it you or the calculator that had too much eggnog??? heheh sorry man, had to be done.
No, my stomach had too much beer
Quote:

anyway, after you AddBorders and get your correct output resolution, what are you selecting as your Source Aspect Ratio and how do you determine that?
I'm doing similar to SansGrip, but I found it faster and "clearer" to see the edges with TMPEG's internal crop. It gives me the same information as Vdub. Then, as SansGrip said, I take parameters and enter them in "Film Pixels" of FitCD and set left border and righr border. Everything else then is done by FitCD. In TMPEG, I'm using "Center" and 1:1 VGA as source aspect, as it seems to make no difference if I set to 4:3 or 16:9. So 1:1 is actually "Whatever comes resized via AviSynth"
Aspect looks correct on TMPEG and played back on WinDVD too.

-kwag
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  #16  
01-02-2003, 10:58 PM
deltaboy deltaboy is offline
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ahhh, you are a beer man. me too, but my unhealthy diet of around 30/week makes it feel like new years every day! hahahaha...

try 16:9 with full screen (keep aspect) and let me know what your results are. i hope its the same. thanks for the help!!!
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  #17  
01-02-2003, 11:25 PM
kwag kwag is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deltaboy
ahhh, you are a beer man. me too, but my unhealthy diet of around 30/week makes it feel like new years every day! hahahaha...
Quote:

try 16:9 with full screen (keep aspect) and let me know what your results are. i hope its the same. thanks for the help!!!
I have to keep it "Center" because I removed the "addborders" from the script, and the .avs has the correct resize. If I set "Full Screen (keep aspect)" the output is wrong.

-kwag
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  #18  
01-03-2003, 05:18 AM
GFR GFR is offline
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For DVD rips

01. Rip VOBs with SmartRipper
02. Separate AC3 audio(s) and .d2v project (DVD2AVI) (Sometimes it works better to let SmartRipper extract the audio stream(s))
03. Get DVD chapters with Chapter Extractor or from SmartRipper log
04. Get subtitles (bmps + sub) with SubRipper
05. Adjust audio(s) length(s), if necessary
06. Encode audio(s) with HeadAC3he
07. Load .d2v in TMPGEnc and find the borders (film pixels)
08. Create an appropriate Avisynth script (with cropping and resizing) including Sampler()
09. Make sample strips to determine correct CQ
10. Encode
11. Mux audio(s) and video in TMPGenc (I have had better luck with it for SVCD muxing, my player doesn't like 480 lines mpeg-1)
12. Mux Subtitles as CVD with WinSubMux GUI
13. Author and burn with VCDEasy
14. Print covers and labels for the CD's

If I'm doing the movie in two CD's I treat each CD as a separate project so that I can make sure the movie is split at a chapter transition and each CD is fully filled.

For AVI captures

01. Capture with AVI_IO, HuffYUV or MainConcept MJPEG
02. Load .avi in TMPGEnc and set the borders (use TMPGENC to crop) and Ghostbuster parameters (if necessary)
03. Create an appropriate Avisynth script including Sampler(), MJPEGcorrect (if necessary), Decomb, Ghostbuster, etc.
04. Make sample strips to determine correct CQ
05. Load .avs in TMPGEnc and do Cut editing to eliminate comercials (makes little difference in prediction doing this at this point)
06. Encode video+audio (external audio coder set to toolame)
07. Author and burn with VCDEasy (may set chapters with the built-in player of the new version)
08. Print covers and labels for the CD's
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  #19  
01-03-2003, 06:16 AM
apoc apoc is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GFR
05. Adjust audio(s) length(s), if necessary
Hi,

How do you do that ??
Is it really necessary ?

thx

--
apoc
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  #20  
01-03-2003, 07:07 AM
GFR GFR is offline
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It can be necessary, as a last resource, if you have synch problems. The most friendly way to do this with an audio editor like CoolEdit, sometimes a video editing tool like Ulead's helps.
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