Quantcast FFmpeg: Status Report about Alternative Tools to Create KDVD - digitalFAQ.com Forums [Archives]
  #1  
02-24-2004, 10:36 AM
Jellygoose Jellygoose is offline
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Hi all...

I kinda lost overview in here the last weeks. Where are we right now? I remember a lot of people (me included) dumped ffvfw for now, because of the bitrate spikes and the lack to set min. and max. bitrate.
Mencoder seemed a pretty good alternative after that, and it was finally figured out how to use AviSynth scripts with that also. So who all is using Mencoder right now to produce KDVD/ what are your experiences?
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  #2  
02-24-2004, 10:49 AM
digitall.doc digitall.doc is offline
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Hi Jelly,
nice to see you around here. Well, I'm afraid we're little people (rds_correia, incredible, vhelp, amenophis, hydeus, marcellus, bilu not really testing,... sorry if I forget any) testing with this "new" toy. If you read the threads, you'll see that there's already a GUI (thanx Amenophis, even I didn't have time yet to try it), and vhelp was working on another one (where ar you v).
It seems that with mencoder we can limit the bitrates, and is fast (Inc reported 23 fps. I'm employing more functions and get 8-10 fps, not too bad).
I think we're working almost all with .bat files, with all mencoder parameters, double click and let it work.
But as you see I'm not very good summarizing. Maybe is better you took a look at the threads, and if you want we could post here some command-lines for you to begin testing....
... because you won't test it just once
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02-24-2004, 11:01 AM
rds_correia rds_correia is offline
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Just to say that digitall.doc resumed it perfectly.
One thing though we are still grasping the surface with this encoder.
There's a whole new horizon of things that need checking.
We should have a sticky here about latest command line results...
Oh well. I think we're on the right path but it's going to take some more weeks to come up with a good guide.
Stay tunned J3lly
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02-24-2004, 11:01 AM
incredible incredible is offline
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Resumee after 1 Weekend full testing:

Really NICE! As its very much faster than FFvfw on my machine (btw. Digi_doc 23fps encoding speed can't be seen as general as it depends on CPU etc. ).
I used the GUI to generate "templates" which I did tweak according to Prediction etc.

Much much, much testings on sliced samples and two full encodings.

1. 352x576 pal on one CDr80 nice quality, better quatisation than TmpgEnc and CCE but this is just one full encoded oneCDr movie! So Ill test more.

2. 704x576 Capture on KDVD, wanted filesize 1950MBs .. ended up in 1975. Ver nice Quality if compared to CCE or TmpgEnc ... better Bitrate Allocation and better Q curve behaviour! But also here its the first full encode at 704x576 so further tests will tell more.

I don't want to be exited now, as we all now how could end beginning exitements. If I figured out a "logic" to even better tweak predictionning in mencoder AND if I see more results in a lot more test-full encodings "it could" be possible that I switch to mencoder. Well since I tested mencoder I didn't touch again FFvfw as mencoder is much more faster.

BTW If I DO NOT set Vmin Bitrate in Mencoder I do not get any underruns at 704x576 - 1900mb output. On the 352x576 full encoding sample, I had to set minBitrate (underflows did occur during encoding) and I tweaked in mplex.exe the used muxing Bitrate to larger Values instead of the default or the recomm. setting "0" afterwards. This gave me NO underruns when muxing and playback on my Cyberhome505 Player was perfect.
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02-24-2004, 11:03 AM
vhelp vhelp is offline
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hay jelly pal..

Well, right now, I did not give up on ffvfw, but is on hold w/ me too.
I'd like to create an interface that is specific to it so that some of the more
common settings could be quickly changed w/in an instant - if possible.
But, for now, i'm researching other avenues.

I'm currently working w/ mencoder, but I'm having some reservations with
it.

The reasons are:
* Uneasyness of bitrate settings. ie, in TMPG, you can easily change the
....bitrate, and notice the filesize (or quality) change, but in mencoder, you
....have to really pull your dingaling something hard, to notice anything. In
....other words, you almost can't change em. I think that we can all agree
....to an extent, that bitrate settings or not easy to do w/out first changing
....other params that (indirectly) alter either the source during the encoding
....phase, or bitrate, or whatever
* Too many errors during the encoding. mencoder is VERY fussy. The slightest
....wink, and it's dumping your screen full of errors, which by the way, add
....to your encoding "times". See below Fig A. below for an example
....of some errors you get. It's very frustrating to work w/ mencoder. At
....least on my end. I'm working mencoder under w98gold. Others may be
....having better results (or less errors) using other OS. It would be interesting
....to note that OS's that are producing either: less issues; better quality; or
....whatever, when using mencoder in a given OS. Perhaps it's OS tuned

What someone needs to do is research exactly which settings that
effects these various types of errors, and note them w/ further study, to
find the anti-dote to encode w/out resulting w/ errors. Hope that made some
sense

Quote:
SwScaler: BICUBIC scaler, from BGR 32-bit to Planar YV12 using MMX2
videocodec: libavcodec (720x480 fourcc=3267706d [mpg2])
[mpeg2video @ 01433960]rc buffer overflow0min 11mb A-V:0.000 [654:0]
[mpeg2video @ 01433960]rc buffer overflow9min 11mb A-V:0.000 [638:0]
-- = -- = -- = -- = Fig A.-- = -- = -- = -- =

Now, if it worrent for my GUI in the works, I'd 'ov given up on mencoder and
found something challenging in other avenues, but the design helps me to
continue tinking w/ mencoder

If I'm not mistaken, I think you can also use MPLAYER filters too, inside of
mencoder's encoding params. I haven't really tried any of mplayers'
command-line params just yet, (because of the other mencoder issues to
be worked out) but my huntch is set.. that some of the params can be used
w/in mencoder.

One of the things I noticed about mencoder, is the Matrix. Some of them
can produce smaller filesize. So, its more of a challenge to find a "sweet"
spot for this - perhaps a new endeavor for kvcd, if he thinks it has an new
avenue of research

But, in my OP, I think that we really need to NAIL down the bitrate
mechanism. We need to know explicitly, WHAT setting(s) are there
that are respobile for chaing (ie, raising/lowering) the bitrate. For example,
if I change my (min=600 and max=1800) to a (min=900 and max=4000)
I wanna know for sure, that either my filesize will change, or my quality will
change
.
.
this seems to be a topic of interest here

Lots more to say, but I'm debuggin my GUI. I have other ideas for it, but
I would really like to know if mencoder is rally worth GUI'ing it, or just scrapping
it for something new. Hay, Jorel, do you stuff, search out the internet for
a new toy (command-line) encoder for all to play with. He does a great job
at finding these things

Also, w/ Muaddib back in town, he can update is MStacker app to now (as an
option) produce mencoder scripts etc etc. So now we have a few
GUI's and MStacker to mess around with and
CL

Cheers all,
-vhelp
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  #6  
02-24-2004, 11:05 AM
rds_correia rds_correia is offline
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Aha!. Beated Inc. by a second
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02-24-2004, 11:24 AM
digitall.doc digitall.doc is offline
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Hey guys, so nice to see you all around here
Bufff Inc, I'll be happy with even 12-15 fps. The figure 23 I thought I read you got it. Anyway, if I just get max 10, by now, is because I'm using lots of functions (mv0, trell, cbd,...) that make the proccess slow down.
Inc, could you post how you tweak I and B quantizers to fit your films in media?.
Thanx
... where are you vmesquita friend, we miss you in the party!
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02-24-2004, 11:34 AM
vhelp vhelp is offline
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I think I'm getting 10 to 11 fps, but I''m not sure. And, that was with my
screen scrolling the holly bible of error messages (see above)

@ rds,

yes, I think that a sticky (I though I asked for one already) of the latest
and greatest "param string" for mencoder
..so that we don't have to search though threads for it. I think that keeping
a sticky, and w/ current (and perfected) param string should always be at
the top of 1st page, and someone could revise it as changes are successful
and agreed upon (and works across the board ie, w98/SE/ME/2k/XP etc)

-vhelp
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02-24-2004, 11:37 AM
rds_correia rds_correia is offline
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Hi vhelp,
Can you post your mencoder setting when you last saw that scrolling screen full of under/over flows, PTS SCRs, etc?
Thanks
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02-24-2004, 11:38 AM
incredible incredible is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rds_correia
Aha!. Beated Inc. by a second
- Unfilter() sharpens
- Deen("a2d"...) at Radius 2
- TemporalSoften() at Radius 2
- MAjustsoft()
- Tv Logoawayfilter() via VdubFilter AVS Routine
- Blockbuster()
- DCTFilter()


Still beating???

PS: One second! wow! Means therefore 25fps more! then me enc. speed. I assume you meant frame

If it would be a bit more slow, who cares ... quality is the thing right now
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02-24-2004, 11:42 AM
rds_correia rds_correia is offline
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Hi Inc.,
I meant to say that I beated your post by a second
Sorry pal but my english has been a bit rusty these days
That's a good fps taking the amount of filters you're using in the avs script.
I'm using MA but with your JustSoft adaptation and I get 4 fps
My PC is needing a huge upgrade
Cheers
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02-24-2004, 11:46 AM
incredible incredible is offline
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EDIT: Sorry in case of blockbuster I did kick out DCTfilter! So wrong posting above according to DctFilter. That was in my first tryings.

Cause Blockbuster adds high frequencies and if you perform both, DCTfilter and Blockbuster would kick each other in their purpose.
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02-24-2004, 12:47 PM
marcellus marcellus is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by digitall.doc
Hi Jelly,
nice to see you around here. Well, I'm afraid we're little people (rds_correia, incredible, vhelp, amenophis, hydeus, marcellus, bilu not really testing,... sorry if I forget any) testing with this "new" toy. If you read the threads, you'll see that there's already a GUI (thanx Amenophis, even I didn't have time yet to try it), and vhelp was working on another one (where ar you v).
It seems that with mencoder we can limit the bitrates, and is fast (Inc reported 23 fps. I'm employing more functions and get 8-10 fps, not too bad).
I think we're working almost all with .bat files, with all mencoder parameters, double click and let it work.
But as you see I'm not very good summarizing. Maybe is better you took a look at the threads, and if you want we could post here some command-lines for you to begin testing....
... because you won't test it just once
Sorry, digitall.doc but I don't know how you put me in that list. Not that I'm not proud to be there, but I didn't test at all mencoder. And that's because right now I have so little time and besides, I am (and unfortunatelly only me) very pleased with ffvfm. I downloaded mencoder and others but I didn't try'em. But I certainly will
Marcellus
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  #14  
02-24-2004, 12:50 PM
rds_correia rds_correia is offline
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Eheh!
I'm sure digitall.doc was just playing safe to see if he didn't forget any of us when he included you
C ya
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02-24-2004, 02:31 PM
digitall.doc digitall.doc is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rds_correia
I'm sure digitall.doc was just playing safe to see if he didn't forget any of us...
Yes, I did. But even doing this, I forgot to mention vmesquita, and I'm afraid that someone else .
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02-24-2004, 05:21 PM
incredible incredible is offline
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I did yet another test encoding on the very uneasy and action included long movie "The Core" and mencoder does beat TmpgEnc & CCE! in that new testing workout in case of Qcurve and also in visible Quality.

I did not use ":Trells" etc. but my matrix (agressive) and some other value tweaks on the known parameters. Thats also why I end up in a fast encoding.
Also I got with these settings a nice way to do on a 1/2 DVD space output (1 DVD-R=2 movies) a more/less precise Prediction just using the Vbitrate value.

The encoder (again in this workout) does a very very accurate bitrate allocation! Mencoder does behave the same in normal scenes as CCE but in high flashing action scenes he got much more reserves, where CCE blocks out, mencoder still gives a smooth looking flash, also at edges where mencoder does produce less gibbs artefacts.

But maybe everything is just luck! ??

But lets see if we can tweak a bit more and if the assumption of luck can be proofed as real
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02-24-2004, 06:13 PM
vhelp vhelp is offline
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@ inc,

GG, I would love to give your param string a shot w/ my GUI and encode
the same movie (in a given scene maybe) just to see what I'd get in results.
(unless its your personal pstring, I'll leave that up to you pal) but, what
movie are you using ??
.
.
I think I read somewhere's earlier, that you were using SW II, currently, I
have the scene on my HD (in huffy format alread) to feed into mencoder,
and the scene is where Yoda comes in, and fights mr BAD MAN hehe..

I agree though, that this 2nd movie is in pretty good quality. There are no
noticalbe DCT blocks on the DVD (at least none that I know of at the moment)

However, I'm still debuggin my script.

Well, take it eas all, Cheers,
-vhelp
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  #18  
02-25-2004, 04:31 AM
incredible incredible is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vhelp
@ inc,

GG, I would love to give your param string a shot w/ my GUI and encode
the same movie (in a given scene maybe) just to see what I'd get in results.
(unless its your personal pstring, I'll leave that up to you pal) but, what
movie are you using ??
.
.
I think I read somewhere's earlier, that you were using SW II, currently, I
have the scene on my HD (in huffy format alread) to feed into mencoder,
and the scene is where Yoda comes in, and fights mr BAD MAN hehe..
I used a very uneasy to compress Capture (bad broadcasting ... ideal for testing) and the Movie "The core" (as mentioned )

OT:

In my youth I was the biggest SW fan! I collected all toys etc. builded in my room a mega "Hoth"-Ice Desert Scenario.

And as I was a real Fan of the "real" triology I have never been encoding SW I or SW II as IMHO that treatment got very worse .... just like a nintendo game, put into a movie.
Bad Starship design .... I loved those Correllian Imperial Destroyers and my mega Favorite was that Tyrillium-Little-Transporter (at the beginning of "return of the jedi" where Darth Vader landed on the non-ready buld death star. Amazing Design and a nice sound of engines used,.... and that amazing behaviour when it dropped out of the Imperial Destroyer, moving the wings on the sides from top to the bottom
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02-25-2004, 05:48 AM
digitall.doc digitall.doc is offline
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Hey Inc,
same here!, I'm really a StarWars freaky !.
And I love those "old" films. I agree with you that Episodes look like a game, but I don't mind at all because I love the story... I'm a fan of Joda, little green nice guy
Sorry if little OT
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02-25-2004, 06:39 AM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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You all be happy to learn, if you don't know yet, that original trilogy (with added scenes only, as the very first version is no more considered as official by G. Lucas) will be out in DVD in september !
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