Go Back    Forum > Digital Life > Computers

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1  
12-06-2013, 01:45 PM
TylerDurden389 TylerDurden389 is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 102
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Hey everyone,

Before I begin capturing my 20+ hours of home movies I need to get an external hard drive to keep the files on, since avi files are so large. I'll be putting the footage on dvd eventually but I'd like to always have the avi footage just in case. From the internet research I've been doing the opinion towards Seagate and WD is split down the middle. So I thought I'd ask what everyone here thought. Thanks!!
Reply With Quote
Someday, 12:01 PM
admin's Avatar
Ads / Sponsors
 
Join Date: ∞
Posts: 42
Thanks: ∞
Thanked 42 Times in 42 Posts
  #2  
12-06-2013, 04:41 PM
volksjager volksjager is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,027
Thanked 212 Times in 190 Posts
i prefer Seagate
Reply With Quote
  #3  
12-06-2013, 04:46 PM
TylerDurden389 TylerDurden389 is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 102
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Volks, what do you think of this one?

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/backup-p...0005&cp=1&lp=2
Reply With Quote
  #4  
12-06-2013, 05:02 PM
volksjager volksjager is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,027
Thanked 212 Times in 190 Posts
decent price - i have no experience with that particular external
but ive had many Seagates and never had a complaint.
i have had WD's fail
Reply With Quote
  #5  
12-06-2013, 06:10 PM
TylerDurden389 TylerDurden389 is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 102
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Oh boy. I've had a 2tb WD for nearly 2 years now. I wonder why people have problems with these things. I only plug mine in to back up my pc, maybe 5 times a year.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
12-07-2013, 08:59 AM
ChristineBCW ChristineBCW is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 10
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
I don't pay attention to "best" because every product will have some failures. For me, the more important issue is, "Exact compatibility of power connector" so, when I have more than one external drive, I can take one unit from desk to desk witout always unplugging and dragging the power-brick with me.

It seems like a small issue, but get two incompatibles and tell me how pleased you are when you've grabbed the wrong power brick, driven to some location only to discover the error then!! Grrr...

So, I buy for the sake of the power-brick's compatibility. (PS - both WD and Seagate have, at times, switched connectors so Older Units can't be used with Newer Power Bricks. Grrr. That's why God invented generic external drive cases.)
Reply With Quote
  #7  
12-07-2013, 10:58 AM
lordsmurf's Avatar
lordsmurf lordsmurf is online now
Site Staff | Video
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 13,443
Thanked 2,442 Times in 2,075 Posts
I would not suggest anything over 2TB. Too many problems, especially with external drives. Once you hit 2TB, many drive dump the file table. Only some new computers can use internal 2TB+ drives, and external is only available on the much-slower USB2/3 connections. No eSATA, otherwise you'll have major issues.

Check out the Fantom drive: http://www.amazon.com/s/?_encoding=U...ch-alias%3Daps

You can get:
- USB3
- USB2 + eSata
- USB2 + eSata + Firewire 800 ("Quad" drives)

They also have 3TB and 4TB, if you insist.

These are often Seagate drives. That is higher-end brand like Lacie, yet changes normal prices unlike Lacie. Fantom does not manufacture its own hardware, but instead uses the best from other manufacturers.

Western Digital is not a very good drive. Of all the drives that have failed us in past 10 years, almost all were Western Digital, Toshiba or the now-defunct Maxtor. Hitachi and Seagate have worked well, with Seagate being the quieter drive and therefore more preferred.

Whatever is in the Fantom is fine. Sometimes you see WD Black drives in it, which are the best in the WD line.

Everything in use here is either Seagate or Hitachi (internal) or Fantom (external). Highly suggested.

- Did my advice help you? Then become a Premium Member and support this site.
- For sale in the marketplace: TBCs, workflows, capture cards, VCRs
Reply With Quote
The following users thank lordsmurf for this useful post: TylerDurden389 (12-07-2013)
  #8  
12-07-2013, 11:31 AM
TylerDurden389 TylerDurden389 is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 102
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Ugh not only is my 2tb external a WD, but my portable is 1tb toshiba. I've noticed that sometimes files are missing in the 1tb, but nothing major. When I notice something missing on the portable, I'll just copy and paste it back on from the 2tb. So in this regards, my WD is better than the Toshiba. Then again, I hardly ever plug in the WD. Probably only plugged it in 20-30 times in almost 2 years. Whereas the Toshiba gets plugged in a lot more often.

Thank you for all that info LS. I think Best Buy must have some sorta deal with Seagate and WD, because there's only 9 reviews for the 48 Fantom drives they have for sale. That or consumers really don't like giving a chance to something that's not popular. I've heard about never going over 2tb because of tech issues. I'm hoping that someday they'll get those bugs worked out.

Now, I've done the math on this. When capturing AVI with virtualdub, 1 minute and 8 seconds is exactly 2gb of data. So one hour is 120gb. I have roughly 20 hours of home movies footage, give or take an hour (some stuff I don't wanna record). So that's roughly 2.4tb. This is the only reason I want a 3tb. However, if there's a way to record smaller data size (like with a smaller video picture capture size for example) without losing picture quality, I'll do that. I know the guide says to record AVI at 352X480 instead of 720X480, but unless I'm missing something here, when I recorded with my dvd recorder in that size (longer play speed recording on my dvd player), the picture quality was terrible. Only thing I can figure is that since this was a dvd recording, it was MPEG instead of AVI, which I'm guessing makes a difference.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
12-07-2013, 11:35 AM
lordsmurf's Avatar
lordsmurf lordsmurf is online now
Site Staff | Video
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 13,443
Thanked 2,442 Times in 2,075 Posts
Trust me, the Fantom drives are VERY popular professionally. Not just for video, but photographers, designers, etc. Consumers want "cheap" and "name brand" (even if that brand/manufacturer isn't good). And often "name brand" is not at all representative of the products in that industry.

Resolution has nothing to do with quality. Bitrate does, and the bitrate allocation to the resolution. Of course, none of that matters for lossless or uncompressed video, only compression like MPEG-2. Even then, MPEG-2 can be fine. But some recorders have terrible 352x480 encoding, especially Panasonic chipsets. Many choose stupid setting, such as the Panasonic 720x480 4-hour mode, which was almost all blocks on many recordings.

You should see the Best Buy rating in the December 2013 issues of Consumer Reports. It's only somewhat better than Walmart, which was last on the list. B&H, Amazon, Newegg, etc -- all better, all more reliable (including product reviews). Though Newegg had slipped quite a bit in recent times. 3 out of every 5 purchases was made from Amazon!

- Did my advice help you? Then become a Premium Member and support this site.
- For sale in the marketplace: TBCs, workflows, capture cards, VCRs
Reply With Quote
The following users thank lordsmurf for this useful post: TylerDurden389 (12-07-2013)
  #10  
12-07-2013, 12:37 PM
ChristineBCW ChristineBCW is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 10
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
LordSmurf brought up the 3Tb capacity and there is a good argument for staying 2Tb & Under: older computers and 32-bit systems can't handle 3Tb drives without installing special trick-drivers.

I have to span a variety of computers, and I never get larger-than-2Tb capacities for this reason - compatibility across every computer I'll run across.

But I also go for "common power connector" too!
Reply With Quote
  #11  
12-07-2013, 01:03 PM
lordsmurf's Avatar
lordsmurf lordsmurf is online now
Site Staff | Video
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 13,443
Thanked 2,442 Times in 2,075 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristineBCW View Post
older computers and 32-bit systems can't handle 3Tb drives without installing special trick-drivers.
That's actually a myth! Many newer systems (post-2010 dual and quad cores!), and using a 64-bit OS, have the issue. It's about the hardware, not just age or OS. And the tricks often do not work. I've tested this, and seen a high fail rate. It's why I've stopped myself at 2TB, and just buy more drives when needed.

If you do get a larger-than-2TB drive, fill it up first. Be sure it doesn't have issues past 2TB.

- Did my advice help you? Then become a Premium Member and support this site.
- For sale in the marketplace: TBCs, workflows, capture cards, VCRs
Reply With Quote
  #12  
12-07-2013, 01:52 PM
ChristineBCW ChristineBCW is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 10
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Like I said, OLDER COMPUTERS AND 32-BIT SYSTEMS...

Sheesh.

He quoteth but does not readeth!
Reply With Quote
  #13  
12-07-2013, 02:40 PM
TylerDurden389 TylerDurden389 is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 102
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
I'm gonna have to go with the USB 3.0 models, as my computer doesn't have eSata, and USB 2.0 is too slow. So I've narrowed it down to 4 options on that amazon page link. The GD2000U3A, the GF3B2000U, the GF3B2000UP, and the GF3B2000U32. However, in the "compare" section of one of the pages, it says that the GF3B2000U and the GF3B2000U32 are not external. They're NTFS. Will this affect if my PC is compatible? It's a windows 7 dual-core.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
12-07-2013, 04:01 PM
lordsmurf's Avatar
lordsmurf lordsmurf is online now
Site Staff | Video
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 13,443
Thanked 2,442 Times in 2,075 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by TylerDurden389 View Post
I it says that the GF3B2000U and the GF3B2000U32 are not external. They're NTFS. Will this affect if my PC is compatible? It's a windows 7 dual-core.
- NTFS is a file system used by Windows
- External is the opposite of internal.

There's no relation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristineBCW View Post
Like I said, OLDER COMPUTERS AND 32-BIT SYSTEMS... Sheesh.
He quoteth but does not readeth!
I've seen problems on Windows 7 64-bit. It's not just 32-bit OS that have problems.

And I guess "new" can be relative. But in the computer industry, "new" has meant "3 years" since the 1990s. But systems from 3 years ago still have problems.

Like I said, if you think that it's simply "older" + non-64, you may be in for a nasty surprise. You could be happily filling up a 3-4TB drives, hit 2TB of data .... then it's fubar. Blank. No files. Corrupted file table.

Sadly, the new/64 aspect is a myth. It's not true.

- Did my advice help you? Then become a Premium Member and support this site.
- For sale in the marketplace: TBCs, workflows, capture cards, VCRs
Reply With Quote
  #15  
12-07-2013, 04:44 PM
TylerDurden389 TylerDurden389 is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 102
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Alright, between the 4 products I mentioned, both Amazon and Newegg (B&H didn't have them) give the GF3B2000UP the best reviews. As for the extra 4-500 gb of space that I need, I'll bite the bullet and get another portable external 500gb.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
12-07-2013, 06:15 PM
lordsmurf's Avatar
lordsmurf lordsmurf is online now
Site Staff | Video
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 13,443
Thanked 2,442 Times in 2,075 Posts
Get two 2TB drives. You can never have too much space.

- Did my advice help you? Then become a Premium Member and support this site.
- For sale in the marketplace: TBCs, workflows, capture cards, VCRs
Reply With Quote
  #17  
12-07-2013, 10:36 PM
TylerDurden389 TylerDurden389 is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 102
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Good point

Just wanted to add that I re-read a few of the guides on the site and fond out that AVI degrades over time. This means I won't be keeping my captured footage in AVI footage (which was my original plan). This means I'll end up capturing and creating dvd as I go, and keeping the captures in MPEG form for safekeeping. This means I won't need a 3tb after all. I think in total my home movies footage on dvd is around 90gb. Though granted that was from dvd recording, hehe.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
12-14-2013, 05:47 PM
lordsmurf's Avatar
lordsmurf lordsmurf is online now
Site Staff | Video
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 13,443
Thanked 2,442 Times in 2,075 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by TylerDurden389 View Post
AVI degrades over time
Where does it say that? I bet you're reading it wrong. Because that may not be correct.

The problem is that "AVI" is just a container. Uncompressed video has no loss (nor lossless, hence the name), while compressed XviD/DivX will. So what is the "AVI" file holding? Which codec?

- Did my advice help you? Then become a Premium Member and support this site.
- For sale in the marketplace: TBCs, workflows, capture cards, VCRs
Reply With Quote
  #19  
12-14-2013, 07:23 PM
TylerDurden389 TylerDurden389 is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 102
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
In the guide "Introduction to Digital Video Capturing, Recording TV" it says:

"Most AVI codecs are intended only as temporary working format, not meant to be final products. An AVI typically serves no purpose outside of an editing environment on a computer using Windows. It has little compression applied, and can easily be manipulated a few times before degradation occurs to the video information. This is opposite of television/DVD formats like MPEG".
Reply With Quote
  #20  
12-14-2013, 09:32 PM
lordsmurf's Avatar
lordsmurf lordsmurf is online now
Site Staff | Video
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 13,443
Thanked 2,442 Times in 2,075 Posts
I wrote the guide. But it needs better wording.

The large filesize of AVI is what makes it temporary (working files), not archive/distribution. MPEG and other compressed formats degrade much quicker after multiple re-encodes. All video degrades after multiple re-encodes -- assuming something was done to it, which is likely if it re-encoded! Time alone doesn't degrade digital formats; that's analog formats, though not as bad as myths would suggested (35-65 years, not less).

That clear it up?

- Did my advice help you? Then become a Premium Member and support this site.
- For sale in the marketplace: TBCs, workflows, capture cards, VCRs
Reply With Quote
The following users thank lordsmurf for this useful post: TylerDurden389 (12-14-2013)
Reply




Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Clone drive to external hard drive? (back up) nick_27 Computers 1 04-23-2013 06:43 AM
Multi bay external hard drive enclosures Sossity Computers 1 01-30-2013 12:48 AM
External hard drive advice naripeddi Computers 3 02-14-2012 10:03 PM
Best aluminum external hard drive enclosures under $70.00 Sossity Computers 3 12-21-2010 09:44 AM
External hard drive, dvd recorder/vcr combo, etc [SOLD] stoogedog Marketplace 0 02-04-2006 04:32 PM

Thread Tools



 
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:17 AM