Quantcast Video restoration - what can I expect? - digitalFAQ Forum
  #1  
09-25-2018, 07:24 AM
dbreitbach dbreitbach is offline
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I am very new to this entire process of capturing VHS tapes and attempting to restore them and save them in the digital world. I would like to get some idea of what type of quality I could get out of the tapes I have captured thus far in the process. Attached is a sample clip. Hopefully I captured it correctly.

Samsung VCR -> Samsung V3650 (TBC) -> VC500 -> VirtualDub (AVI).

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated (see attached clip).


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File Type: avi John Clip 2.avi (84.73 MB, 13 downloads)
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  #2  
09-25-2018, 12:47 PM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
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Welcome to the forum.
And thank you for the sample.

You appear to be capturing to the preferred format of 720x480 as YUY2 losslessly compressed. Input levels are within the legal range of y-16-235, but I'm not sure how you controlled it. There is hard clipping at y=16 and y=235 in YUV. The VC500 card doesn't do this on its own. It's possible that clipping occurs on the tape itself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dbreitbach View Post
I would like to get some idea of what type of quality I could get out of the tapes I have captured thus far
To a great extent I think you can answer that on your own observations, but I'll offer some details. The capture is very poor quality. You can't expect a decent capture from the Samsung player. It's just isn't possible. The DVD/VCR combo can't be used as a pass-thru tbc. Your sample shows there is no tbc correction at all. Scanline errors in the form of ripples, wiggles, warped lines, object displacement, notched and ragged edges and borders, and other distortions are quite severe. These can't be corrected in post processing. Also, a stream of images as disturbed as this works against any attemnpt at denoisers.

Attached is "Clip2_10fps.mp4". It contains that last 60 frames of your clip, deinterlaced with QTGMC with frame rate reduced to 10fps so that you can see what's happening. Notice how the lettering is unsteady, warped, shimmering, splitting and wiggling -- this is the direct result of poor tracking and scanline errors that can be fixed only with a better player and an effective line-level tbc. If you play this mp4 and look closely at the bottom-border strip of head-switching noise you can see how parts of the image are hopping up and down.

Also attached is "Clip2_RightBorder_10fps.mp4". This has the same frames as the other mp4 at 10fps but the right-hand border is isolated to demonstrate that you have no horizontal or vertical scanline correction at all. No restoration process can correct playback problems this serious or add detail where none exists.

The good news is that your VC500 device is a decent performer, so I'd advise that you keep it around. But the Samsung gear, sad to say, is really inadequate.

If you'd like to see what's possible with post processing, there are many posts of less than perfect videos and otherwise that have been posted during the last month alone, with plenty of examples of problems solved and improvements made.


Attached Files
File Type: mp4 Clip2_10fps.mp4 (5.46 MB, 3 downloads)
File Type: mp4 Clip2_RightBorder_10fps.mp4 (1.83 MB, 2 downloads)
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  #3  
09-27-2018, 09:35 AM
dbreitbach dbreitbach is offline
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sanlyn

Thank you very much for your response. Since your post, I have been doing some more reading, lots of reading.

The VC500 capture unit I have is pretty old. I probably bought it 10-15 years ago. Could the older version of the VC500 be the reason for the hard clipping? I may need to purchase the new version!

I also have read up more on the Time Based Correctors (vs the Frame Synchronizer), which I did originally confuse. The initial setup I had was from the Samsung directly into the VC500 and it was horrible. So I added the Samsung V3650 between the two and it actually produced a better video. But now I understand it was only doing Frame synchronization).

So my next step is to upgrade my setup. I just bought a used Panasonic ES10 to be my Line Level TBC.
Could you suggest a decent VCR to play the original and also let me know if you think I should upgrade my VC500 capture unit?

VCR -> ES10 (line level TBC) -> Frame Synchronizer (currently Samsung Samsung V3650) -> VC500 -> VirtualDub (AVI)

Once again, thank you very much for your input and your time!!
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  #4  
09-27-2018, 11:00 AM
hodgey hodgey is offline
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There is supposedly an olderversion using a different chipset that looks a little different. There's also a (white) mac version, that has another chipset (SAA7113H or some system on a chip that bundles contains the same decoder.) The mac one we've got here does clip below 16, but the normal (black, Conexant-based) ones don't.

Alternatively, it could be the Samsung DVD unit, that does it. Don't think it will do anything useful if you have an ES10 anyhow though, as the ES10 should give a stable output, and already look much better than what you had before.

What's the model of the other Samsung VCR? I've got 2 samsung VCRs from around 03 and they're actually not awful picure quality wise, though they don't quite match our Philips/JVC/Panasonic SVHS decks. (Check out the VCR Buying guide for suggested vcrs.)
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09-27-2018, 11:39 AM
dbreitbach dbreitbach is offline
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The Samsung VCR that I am using to play the tapes is a VP2503. Can't find much on the internet about this model but I think it is from the early-to-mid 90s.

Thanks - and I will check out the VCR Buying Guide!
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  #6  
09-27-2018, 12:01 PM
house141 house141 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbreitbach View Post
sanlyn



So my next step is to upgrade my setup. I just bought a used Panasonic ES10 to be my Line Level TBC.
Could you suggest a decent VCR to play the original and also let me know if you think I should upgrade my VC500 capture unit?

VCR -> ES10 (line level TBC) -> Frame Synchronizer (currently Samsung Samsung V3650) -> VC500 -> VirtualDub (AVI)
don't forget that only "Input 1" on the back is the only input on the ES10 that has the TBC capabilities. There are 2 inputs on the back and 1 on the front
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09-27-2018, 12:48 PM
dbreitbach dbreitbach is offline
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House141 - thank you for that bit of information!!
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  #8  
09-27-2018, 07:38 PM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
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Another detail about the ES10/ES15: disable noise reduction in the setup menus (you will need the unit's remote to do this). Having in turned on might make previewing or DVD playback look "nice", but it smears motion and causes posterizing or clay-face effects. Post-processing software like Avisynth or VirtualDub has far more sophisticated filters for denoising.
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  #9  
09-28-2018, 10:52 AM
dbreitbach dbreitbach is offline
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sanlyn - More good information to have in my back pocket when I finally receive my ES10!! Thank you.
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  #10  
09-28-2018, 12:47 PM
Bogilein Bogilein is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by house141 View Post
don't forget that only "Input 1" on the back is the only input on the ES10 that has the TBC capabilities. There are 2 inputs on the back and 1 on the front

That's not true. The european models with scart connectors have the TBC capabilities on the front inputs, too.
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  #11  
09-28-2018, 03:06 PM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bogilein View Post
That's not true. The european models with scart connectors have the TBC capabilities on the front inputs, too.
You're right, I forget this is PAL we're talking about!
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  #12  
09-29-2018, 06:20 AM
Bogilein Bogilein is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanlyn View Post
You're right, I forget this is PAL we're talking about!
Sorry Sanlyn, but I haven't known that we are only talking about NTSC.
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  #13  
09-29-2018, 10:03 AM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
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That's correct, I should have checked your original post with "John Clip 2.avi". The sample is NTSC.

In case you wonder, many DVDR menus for PAL differ from NTSC menus. NTSC has a noise reduction feature that you should turn off to prevent smearing, etc -- it's rather aggressive and old-fashioned. NTSC also has front and rear inputs. Input Line#1 is on the back and is always tbc-active. Some later models of the ES10\ES15 had tbc on all inputs, but you can't tell which firmware you have by just looking, so I always used Line #1.
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