Quantcast Should I get a better scanner for slides? - digitalFAQ Forum
  #1  
05-28-2019, 12:25 AM
kcmom kcmom is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: rural Oklahoma
Posts: 88
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Do you think I need a better scanner for scanning old slides for printing 8x10 or smaller and viewing on tv screen?

I am attaching a slide I scanned at 2400, 3200 and 4800. I don't know whether I did the resizing correctly.

Lordsmurf or kpmedia, or anyone:

Is there a way to add sample scans (tiff) of kodachrome slides so I can get input on quality?

Is gently cleaning dirty, badly scratched slides with Pec-12 and pec pads the best way to clean them? Whatever is on them does not come off with air.



Attached Files
File Type: zip Archive.zip (20.82 MB, 21 downloads)
Reply With Quote
Someday, 12:01 PM
admin's Avatar
Ads / Sponsors
 
Join Date: ∞
Posts: 42
Thanks: ∞
Thanked 42 Times in 42 Posts
  #2  
06-07-2019, 08:32 PM
kpmedia's Avatar
kpmedia kpmedia is offline
Site Staff | Web Hosting, Photo
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 4,241
Thanked 354 Times in 332 Posts
Merged the posts.

I'm really not sure what I'm looking at. It appears to be either 3 different images, or different crops of the same image.

I don't necessarily see anything wrong, but it depends on the source slides. The images do seem a bit fuzzy, but that may be anything from the focus of the camera to the grain of the slide. Knowing the shooting camera and ISO/ASA of the slide film would help. I'm guessing Kodachrome, since it was mentioned, so no need to specify the exact brand of the slide.

- Did my advice help you? Then become a Premium Member and support this site.
- Please Like Us on Facebook | Follow Us on Twitter

- Need a good web host? Ask me for help! Get the shared, VPS, semi-dedicated, cloud, or reseller you need.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
06-07-2019, 09:45 PM
kcmom kcmom is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: rural Oklahoma
Posts: 88
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
I scanned the same slide with 3 different dpi settings. 2400, 3200 and 4800 without setting any color correction or unsharp mask or anything using Epson scanning software. When projected with slide projector, the image appears pretty clear. Checking unsharp mask seems to make the image less fuzzy, but I wasn't sure if I should do that or scan without that and make adjustments later in software.

The slides are indeed kodachrome, but I have no idea about the film or camera. We found the slides, a movie camera and a polaroid camera when going through things in my inlaws' house, but did not find camera used for the slides.

I'm sorry, I didn't really know how to make the images fit the guidelines for attaching items.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
06-07-2019, 09:58 PM
kpmedia's Avatar
kpmedia kpmedia is offline
Site Staff | Web Hosting, Photo
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 4,241
Thanked 354 Times in 332 Posts
Something else is happening somewhere.
It's not the same crop, if the same image. I'm not sure what you did, or what your software did.

Unsharp mask is easy to do badly, or wrong, so be careful with settings. It's an art, not a science. In Photoshop, you have to learn how to manage the pixel radius and sharpening %. The Epson software is more dumbed down, so easier, but sometimes worse quality.

- Did my advice help you? Then become a Premium Member and support this site.
- Please Like Us on Facebook | Follow Us on Twitter

- Need a good web host? Ask me for help! Get the shared, VPS, semi-dedicated, cloud, or reseller you need.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
06-07-2019, 10:24 PM
kcmom kcmom is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: rural Oklahoma
Posts: 88
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
I don't know what I did. Obviously, I don't know what to do to upload correctly. The original tif scans @ 2400, 3200, and 4800 dpi were very large files, 37.6 MB, 66.8 MB and 155.2 MB respectively. I thought that was too large to upload. Maybe you should delete those and I can try to upload one of the originals.

Will probably scan the best I can for now so we can make a photo album for my 90+ year old mother-in-law as soon as possible. Will I need to scan at higher settings than 2400 dpi to print 5x7s?

[Attached] is the original of the 3200 dpi scan....I hope. Please delete this if needed.


Attached Files
File Type: zip 3200-nocheck067 copy.tif.zip (62.37 MB, 3 downloads)

Last edited by kpmedia; 06-15-2019 at 09:27 PM. Reason: Merged. -KP
Reply With Quote
  #6  
06-14-2019, 02:55 PM
Winsordawson Winsordawson is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Behind you
Posts: 298
Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts
IMO If you have a consumer scanner, are using basic scanning software, and you have many photos it is best to send it off to a professional service. There are many out there but are only some are good. The one I used also color corrected the photos before saving, which helps because JPEGs decline in quality with every save.

If you are concerned about file size you can convert it to a PNG, which has a smaller file size due to lossless compression. Depending on the software, you may also be able to apply lossless compression to a TIFF, but this is less common in consumer applications.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
06-14-2019, 09:48 PM
kcmom kcmom is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: rural Oklahoma
Posts: 88
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
I scanned with Epson V370 and Epson Scan software. I am not yet certain of all settings I should use. I am following suggestions in another thread on this forum.

Is it correct to imbed ICC profile?

Does it make any difference to quality or software compatibility whether I scan to Macbook Air or Windows7 computer? Epson Scan works with both.

I think I will go ahead and scan the slides to show to my 90+ year old mother-in-law asap. Then, if there are some particularly memorable or sentimental we can decide whether they need to be sent off. Seems like I read here somewhere that site staff convert slides to digital as well as converting video. Is this true??? -it's not shown under Services tab- or is there a recommendation?

Most are kodachrome from 50s & 60s. Most of my inlaws and their children. Possible some of FIL in Korea during Korean Conflict. Many have a reddish tint I have read is common with kodachrome. Is that difficult to correct in Photoshop or similar?
Reply With Quote
  #8  
06-15-2019, 08:45 PM
Winsordawson Winsordawson is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Behind you
Posts: 298
Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts
Yes, you should imbed an ICC profile if possible as that will help programs view your photo in the same color space that you viewed and/or color corrected it.

I have never had a problem scanning photos to both Windows or Mac computers, but whether Epson Scan works identically in both is something that would require further research.

I don't know if DigitalFAQ offers that services. I used ScanCafe and had no problems. With them, you can also save money if you allow them to ship the photos to India. I only did that with non-precious photos. You can then view the scanned photos and even delete a few that you don't like and not pay for them (but it is limited to a few percent of the total number of photos scanned). Originally I thought I would save money by scanning them myself, but I just don't have or want to invest in the necessary equipment, or the time commitment.

Yes, you can color correct that in Photoshop (or Gimp, which is free) very easily. Just make sure you do it in a lossless codec to preserve the most quality.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
06-15-2019, 09:25 PM
kpmedia's Avatar
kpmedia kpmedia is offline
Site Staff | Web Hosting, Photo
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 4,241
Thanked 354 Times in 332 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcmom View Post
Is it correct to imbed ICC profile?
This really only makes a difference if you're scanning and printing under controlled conditions, and the printer understands the ICC as well.

Quote:
Does it make any difference to quality or software compatibility whether I scan to Macbook Air or Windows7 computer? Epson Scan works with both.
Nope. And if anything, I prefer scanning on a Mac.

Quote:
I think I will go ahead and scan the slides to show to my 90+ year old mother-in-law asap. Then, if there are some particularly memorable or sentimental we can decide whether they need to be sent off.
That's the most reasonable plan.

Quote:
Seems like I read here somewhere that site staff convert slides to digital as well as converting video. Is this true??? -it's not shown under Services tab- or is there a recommendation?
This is true, we offer the service, and always have. When you're ready, just Contact Us.

I always forget that it's been hidden under the Services tab, and the pages needs to be rewritten and restored. We've been too busy with video to bother with it. The intention was to always scan just a few (or few dozen) important slides, not every slide/print a person has. For whatever reason, a few years ago, we began to get bombarded by requests to scan entire boxes (hundreds/thousands) of slides/negatives -- and for mere cents per image (slave labor wages). It was ridiculous. The day worth of time required for this wouldn't even pay for a lunch break at Subway. And the slide/negative cleaning alone wouldn't even pay for the cleaning chemicals.

Quote:
Most are kodachrome from 50s & 60s. Most of my inlaws and their children. Possible some of FIL in Korea during Korean Conflict. Many have a reddish tint I have read is common with kodachrome. Is that difficult to correct in Photoshop or similar?
Slightly difficult, yes.
Overly difficult, probably not.
Photoshop is easiest (though probably because I've been using it for 25 years).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Winsordawson View Post
Yes, you should imbed an ICC profile if possible as that will help programs view your photo in the same color space that you viewed and/or color corrected it.
The computer monitor has it's own viewing profile, usually sRGB, and then both a printer and image have ICC embedded. So it's not as easy as just setting an ICC. And again, printing (WYSIWYG) is the main reasoning. If not printing, doesn't matter. And even if printing, if not higher-end printer, it still doesn't matter.

Quote:
I have never had a problem scanning photos to both Windows or Mac computers, but whether Epson Scan works identically in both is something that would require further research.
It does not. The main issue is that Windows and Mac default gamma profiles are different, and thus the image on screen will appear different on each OS.

Quote:
I don't know if DigitalFAQ offers that services.
Yes we do.

Quote:
I used ScanCafe and had no problems. With them, you can also save money if you allow them to ship the photos to India. I only did that with non-precious photos. You can then view the scanned photos and even delete a few that you don't like and not pay for them (but it is limited to a few percent of the total number of photos scanned).
To be blunt, I'd rather just not scan the images, as opposed to giving them to a place like that. ScanCafe makes Walmart look like a premium operation. Nothing is cleaned, not even basic automatic color corrections applied. It's not just "garbage in, garbage out", but "anything in, garbage out".

The real problem is that expectation for quality have tanked in the era of cell phone pictures. The screens are too tiny to see flaws, and too late if you decide to print or view larger than phone. The volume of images taken these days also makes it where people don't even seem to look at an image more than once, and then it's forgotten forever. So no value is placed on scanning, or the images scanned.

Quote:
Yes, you can color correct that in Photoshop (or Gimp, which is free) very easily.
Gimp is an appropriate name, in a non-politically-correct way. The word "gimp" is outdated (1990s?) slang for "disabled or handicapped", and GIMP (GNU Image Manipulation Program) really does feel like a handicapped Photoshop. At best, it feels awkward, and at worst some things just can't be done with quality (or at all). Not bad for freeware, but it's no Photoshop. If you've never used Photoshop, you'll probably think it's great. If you've used Photoshop, you'll probably hate it. Having used Photoshop for 25 years, to me GIMP feels more like MS Paint than a pro image program.

- Did my advice help you? Then become a Premium Member and support this site.
- Please Like Us on Facebook | Follow Us on Twitter

- Need a good web host? Ask me for help! Get the shared, VPS, semi-dedicated, cloud, or reseller you need.
Reply With Quote
The following users thank kpmedia for this useful post: kcmom (06-16-2019)
  #10  
06-16-2019, 06:42 PM
kcmom kcmom is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: rural Oklahoma
Posts: 88
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Thank you, kpmedia, for the information! I am glad to know that you would do the conversion to digital on some special slides. I will be certain to contact you when we find something that needs your professional touch.

The following is a plan of action I am considering. Any thoughts?
Dust with Air and soft brush, scan. Clean extremely dirty slides with pec pad and Pec-12 (is there a better way to clean? I have tried this on a couple of really bad ones and still doesn't get everything off..afraid to rub too hard), scan again (scanned once already because I don't want to mess up something I haven't scanned at all). Scan once more with Unsharp mask checked just because this seemed to help some of my experimental slides, but not others.---There are probably approx 70-80 to scan. Is this overkill?

I am firing up the slide projector this evening and making a list of the slides I need to scan. Hopefully I can start on them this week. Are there any changes that you think I should make to the settings in Epson Scan screen shots below?

Screen Shot 2019-06-16 at 5.38.24 PM.png

You must be logged in to view this content; either login or register for the forum. The attached screen shots, before/after images, photos and graphics are created/posted for the benefit of site members. And you are invited to join our digital media community.


Screen Shot 2019-06-16 at 6.22.06 PM.png

Thanks to JPMedia, for helping me get started with settings back in March...time flies when you are having fun.



Last edited by kcmom; 06-16-2019 at 06:57 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
06-17-2019, 12:26 AM
Winsordawson Winsordawson is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Behind you
Posts: 298
Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts
Quote:
It does not. The main issue is that Windows and Mac default gamma profiles are different, and thus the image on screen will appear different on each OS.
There are plenty of programs that have some features missing in Mac that are available in their Windows OS system, though I would not know if this holds for Epson Scan. Gamma profiles have been identical in Windows and Macs since Snow Leopard (2.2).

Quote:
To be blunt, I'd rather just not scan the images, as opposed to giving them to a place like that. ScanCafe makes Walmart look like a premium operation. Nothing is cleaned, not even basic automatic color corrections applied. It's not just "garbage in, garbage out", but "anything in, garbage out".
I don't know if Scan Cafe cleans the images, though I know they will remove parts with mold. They do basic color correction and remove scratches, both manually and with software. More extensive color correction costs extra. They use premiere software worth tens of thousands of dollars that a mom-and-pop shop may never be able to afford.

Quote:
Gimp is an appropriate name, in a non-politically-correct way. The word "gimp" is outdated (1990s?) slang for "disabled or handicapped", and GIMP (GNU Image Manipulation Program) really does feel like a handicapped Photoshop. At best, it feels awkward, and at worst some things just can't be done with quality (or at all). Not bad for freeware, but it's no Photoshop. If you've never used Photoshop, you'll probably think it's great. If you've used Photoshop, you'll probably hate it. Having used Photoshop for 25 years, to me GIMP feels more like MS Paint than a pro image program.
I did not realize that connection. It is certainty inferior to Photoshop, but it is also less intimidating for someone starting out who wants to perform a few simple adjustments. I tell people to start with GIMP if they don't want to invest the time in learning PS and/or pay the monthly subscription.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
06-17-2019, 03:27 PM
kcmom kcmom is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: rural Oklahoma
Posts: 88
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcmom View Post
Thank you, kpmedia, for the information! I am glad to know that you would do the conversion to digital on some special slides. I will be certain to contact you when we find something that needs your professional touch.

The following is a plan of action I am considering. Any thoughts?
Dust with Air and soft brush, scan. Clean extremely dirty slides with pec pad and Pec-12 (is there a better way to clean? I have tried this on a couple of really bad ones and still doesn't get everything off..afraid to rub too hard), scan again (scanned once already because I don't want to mess up something I haven't scanned at all). Scan once more with Unsharp mask checked just because this seemed to help some of my experimental slides, but not others.---There are probably approx 70-80 to scan. Is this overkill?

I am firing up the slide projector this evening and making a list of the slides I need to scan. Hopefully I can start on them this week. Are there any changes that you think I should make to the settings in Epson Scan screen shots below?

Attachment 10247

Attachment 10248

Attachment 10249

Thanks to JPMedia, for helping me get started with settings back in March...time flies when you are having fun.

I forgot about these settings also:


Screen Shot 2019-06-17 at 3.09.46 PM.png

You must be logged in to view this content; either login or register for the forum. The attached screen shots, before/after images, photos and graphics are created/posted for the benefit of site members. And you are invited to join our digital media community.


Screen Shot 2019-06-17 at 2.58.13 PM.png


Reply With Quote
  #13  
06-18-2019, 09:24 PM
kcmom kcmom is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: rural Oklahoma
Posts: 88
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Quote:
The following is a plan of action I am considering. Any thoughts?
Dust with Air and soft brush, scan. Clean extremely dirty slides with pec pad and Pec-12 (is there a better way to clean? I have tried this on a couple of really bad ones and still doesn't get everything off..afraid to rub too hard), scan again (scanned once already because I don't want to mess up something I haven't scanned at all). Scan once more with Unsharp mask checked just because this seemed to help some of my experimental slides, but not others.---There are probably approx 70-80 to scan. Is this overkill?
I realized that I don't need to scan with Unsharp Mask checked because I can sharpen later. Correct??
Reply With Quote
  #14  
06-21-2019, 01:27 PM
traal traal is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 16
Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts
I don't know what effective resolution the Epson V370 ($130) is capable of, but the V600 ($230) which is 2 models up is about 1,560 pixels per inch. From a 35mm frame, that's 1,474 pixels on the short edge. Printed at 300 dpi, that's about 5 inches. So the V600 is fine for scanning slides for prints up to about 5x7, and so the V370 should be about the same or a little less.

If the photo was taken with a point-and-shoot camera, 5x7 may be the most you can ever expect from the slide. Do you have a microscope? You might compare your scans with what you see under the microscope.

I looked at the "3200-nocheck067 copy.tif" image and it definitely looks like it was scanned with a flatbed scanner. It looks like the first image in this photo which was scanned with the Epson V750 flatbed scanner. Here's a crop:



Here's the same image scanned with a dedicated film scanner. It's grainier but also much sharper and has more contrast:



That film scanner is no longer being sold but I think the Pacific Image PrimeFilm XAs ($500) is equivalent.


Attached Images
File Type: png flickr_bghfilm_14402993613_v370.png (263.2 KB, 15 downloads)
File Type: png flickr_bghfilm_14402993613_CoolScan.png (356.7 KB, 15 downloads)
Reply With Quote
  #15  
06-22-2019, 05:58 PM
kcmom kcmom is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: rural Oklahoma
Posts: 88
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
I don't know what effective resolution is for Epson v370. Documentation states optical resolution as 4800 for v370 and 6400 for v600....so idk. If we find some we want done better, or something our county museum would like, we will get them professionally done. I don't think there will be very many.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
06-22-2019, 08:11 PM
Gibson767 Gibson767 is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: New York
Posts: 1
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I have Boxes of B&W slides, Negatives, Color Slides, prints , the list goes on.
I was struggling with scanning with backlighting etc etc. my scanner was very good but...
I have been having great success using a good quality DSLR with a Macro Lens
For negatives or slides I have an underlit table, camera mounted downwards, I can then adjust ISO, Whitebal, focus etc to get what I feel is a much better result than scanning, and I tethered my camera so it all lands in LIGHTROOM where I can do more manipulations, color corrections, etc .
For Prints I perform a similar workflow, I have a few 6500K LEDS lighting from the SIDES - such that no glare or reflection is received into the LENS. (I also try remove dust, fingerprints before shooting)
SO I do all the slides or prints of a SAME SIZE - this minimizes me having to raise, lower crop and focus all the time, Remote Trigger so I can fire the camera with out touching the camera, dont want to shake the camera at the moment it fires.

Forgive me if another post has already stated a WF like this.
Reply With Quote
Reply




Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Advice for a film scanner for 35mm B&W negatives and color slides? Gabriele83 Photo Processing, Scanning & Printing 3 01-31-2015 06:52 AM
Flatbed scanner vs. Neat Receipts (sheet fed scanner) vs. copy paste? Sossity Photo Processing, Scanning & Printing 4 10-23-2012 09:53 AM
Sheet scanner vs Flatbed scanner - Going paperless in my home (or nearly paperless) Sossity Digital Devices 1 10-03-2011 10:39 AM
Best way to mail my slides for professional processing Sossity Photo Processing, Scanning & Printing 8 10-05-2010 09:57 PM
Photo slides transfer to DVD cyber-junkie Photo Processing, Scanning & Printing 2 02-12-2010 12:03 PM

Thread Tools



 
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:18 AM