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  #21  
04-20-2011, 11:36 PM
Tuco Tuco is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newby View Post
I wonder if the ebay version is of a different batch...

http://cgi.ebay.com/Video-Time-Base-...item518ce31cc7
I could be wrong, but these look like CTB-100s, which are basically the same as an AVT-8710.

Quote:
Originally Posted by newby View Post
This is BS. Second unit arrived today and same thing. You guys have any ideas?

I wish I would have written down the serial number from the last unit. this one is 2 238406 014057
My unit is not far off from yours. 2 238406 014064. I'm beginning to think I'll have the same luck as you did with an exchange. Maybe I'll try a CTB-100 until a bad batch can be ruled out. Unfortunately, I just got news that due to a parts shortage, the TBC-1000 I ordered won't arrive until late May instead of a 5-day backorder as stated.

On top of that, my TV Wonder 600 USB I bought used off of Amazon arrived without the AV input adapter, so its back to returns. I have the PCIe version, but I need to do a small case modification to get it to fit into the PCIe 1x slot. Its a little tight. I'm eager to get to work too, but S happens.

I know you said you weren't interested in emulation via a VM ( I highly doubt that would even work, anyway. ) but do you have an XP disc from a previous computer so you can do a dual boot?
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  #22  
04-20-2011, 11:51 PM
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Cypress CTB-100 (silver box, blue sticker)
= AVToolbox AVT-8710 (torquise box, black sticker)
= TVOne AVT-8710 (black box, black sticker)
= LEKTCB-100 (silver box, blue sticker)

Same timebase corrector.

Cyress Technology in Taiwan is the actual manufacturer of this box. Somebody I knew online went to the physical location some years ago.
Online: http://www.cypress.com.tw/english/display.asp?id=310

Cypress CTB-100G -aka- TVOne 1T-TBC in uglier case: http://www.cypress.com.tw/english/display.asp?id=309
Again, Cypress is manufacturer. TVOne/AVToolbox is USA importer, private labeler (outsourcing/reseller).

Some many years, circa 2003-2004, there were a lot of crummy CTB boxes out there, and AVT had tight quality control. At that point, everybody was warning buyers to avoid the cheaper CTB-100 (imported from eBay.co.uk, mostly) and get the $25 "more expensive" AVT-8710 from AVToolbox's site. That was before B&H even started to carry it. I can only guess that has changed, and QC is gone. Sadly, that's happened with many companies, due to the Great Recession.

Markertek sells it, too, but it's generally $15+ more expensive there.
Also sold by a few shady-looking web stores I'd never use myself, or suggest to others. (Think cheap Chinese crap.)

I recently bought a different non-rack timebase corrector than the often-discussed DataVideo or Cypress gear. I'm expecting big things from it. I won't mention brand/make/model until I get mine, test it, run a few jobs on it, and then decide on how well it has performed.

Quote:
used off of Amazon arrived without the AV input adapter
Yep, that's the problem with eBay, too. Amazon is generally a safer bet, but even it's not perfect when it comes to used equipment. Without that wire, the stick is mostly useless.

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  #23  
04-21-2011, 01:56 PM
dyfan dyfan is offline
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Dogpile...but not on the (re-seller), the "batch" nor whatever flavor of cables used...
Black case, black sticker, s/n ends in ...007868

In 2009, I bought my AVT-8710 here:

http://www.omegamultimedia.com/AV_To...Corrector.html

for the price the link still says today.
Mine does the exact same thing as newby and Tuco have described.
Too much of a coincidence. I figured it was probably just me, but I now suspect these flaws fall solely upon the manufacturer. Too bad, my unit has a round sticker saying that it passed Quality Control standards: "Q.C.OK"

Yeah.
And I'm gettin' younger, too.
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  #24  
04-21-2011, 02:21 PM
NJRoadfan NJRoadfan is offline
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Cypress isn't exactly known for their quality control. Their other video products suffer from the same hit or miss quality issues.
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  #25  
04-21-2011, 05:52 PM
newby newby is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuco View Post
...I know you said you weren't interested in emulation via a VM ( I highly doubt that would even work, anyway. ) but do you have an XP disc from a previous computer so you can do a dual boot?
windows 7 ultimate has virtualization built into it and has the ability to emulate xp quite well actully: http://www.microsoft.com/windows/vir.../download.aspx

I just dont like doing it because to me it gets real messy real quick. I personally feel its a bandaid provided my microshaft for all those blackbox programs out there that will NEVER be updated from xp compatibility.

With Win7 ultimate you are actually also buying a license of xp pro. speaking of old hardware i've got an old hp designjet 600 plotter that supposedly will work with Win7 64bit if I find the generic 64bit HP drivers shipped with the XP 64 disc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dad
TV Wonder once again.
I originally posted about the TV Wonder to the forum about a month ago but no advice/feedback so far, but that's alright, given the amount of misinformation, bad advice, the absolute lack of guides/information from ATI that I have and have not found on the web it's understandable. I hope its ok to repost my original post and will not cause any offense?
thanks for the link. Admin, is this what you are thinking? I have had to do this type of forced drivers before... not fun but at least worked.

For those interested in the ebay option, this is what I got from the seller (please read from bottom up... email trail):

Quote:
Dear newby
These products are fairly reliable. If you have gone trough two units from other places and they both failed on you. Most likely this product can not do what you expect. No, shipping is non-refundable from our end and you will have to return the product at your own cost as stated in our return policy.
Regards,
Support
- weesolutions
Click "respond" to reply through Messages, or go to your email to reply
Respond
Quote:
From: newby
To: weesolutions
Subject: Re: Other: newby26mf sent a message about Video Time Base Corrector Synchronizer Color Corrector #350256045255
Sent Date: Apr-19-11 17:53:51 PDT
Dear weesolutions,
i'm well aware of my requirements and what the device should be able to do. I had help in troubleshooting the device from professionals (my handle is newby):
http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/vide...-8710-doa.html
so again I ask, can you check one of your units before they ship and/or offer COMPLETE REFUND including shipping if the unit DOA or otherwise multifunctional?
- newby
Quote:
From: weesolutions
To: newby
Subject: Re: Other: newby26mf sent a message about Video Time Base Corrector Synchronizer Color Corrector #350256045255
Sent Date: Apr-19-11 15:45:51 PDT
Dear newby
Hi,
Thanks for the email. If you have gone through 2 of the similar units, perhaps this unit will not do the job you expect. Please advise us your application purpose.
Regards,
Support
- weesolutions
Quote:
From: newby
To: weesolutions
Subject: Other: newby26mf sent a message about Video Time Base Corrector Synchronizer Color Corrector #350256045255
Sent Date: Apr-19-11 07:24:36 PDT
Dear weesolutions,
is there any way you can verify unit operation before shipping? I've gone through 2 of these from B&H photo and I think they have a bad batch.
thanks!
- newby
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  #26  
04-21-2011, 06:31 PM
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kpmedia kpmedia is offline
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I edited your post, to put the email trail in quotes -- easier to read.

Quote:
perhaps this unit will not do the job you expect
Quote:
Most likely this product can not do what you expect.
...?

Situations like this are almost hard to respond to. It can go three ways:
  • The various women in my life would advise me to give this person the benefit of doubt, and to be understanding of their lack of understanding.
  • The men split up pretty well 50/50, with the first half simply ignoring the situation and moving on.
  • However, I admittedly fit into the last category, in that second half of men, when I observe this sort of situation. The person strikes me as being any one, or combination of, these: lazy, ignorant/uneducated, stubborn/obstinate, stupid. And I'm generally not afraid to voice my opinion. I can actually think of a few more descriptive terms, but this site has a professional environment to maintain.
It's quite obvious that the seller:
  1. Does not understand what a timebase corrector is, and/or
  2. Does not care to answer your questions, and/or
  3. Does not know how to, or is to lazy to, test the TBC available for sale.
I have no problem placing blame where blame is due, whether it's user error or manufacturing defect. But to outright insinuate you don't know what you're doing -- even after it's been demonstrated that you do -- is irritating and anger-inducing.

People like that should be fired. Or if self employed, seek a new field, as this one's not working out.

There are days when I run into multiple people like this. By the end of the day, you almost can't avoid lashing back at one of them. I was in a Best Buy not long ago, looking at the 23" LG IPS LCD, and was approached by a loud salesman going on and on (with a customer in tow) about how LED is better than an LCD (most of it bunk). But a LED is an LCD! Being annoyed that Johnny Volume Control was basically yelling in my ear, I corrected him. It felt good, too. As a former tech writer that reviewed televisions for articles, I matter-of-factly told him that LED is an LCD. LED is just the light source. LCD is the display technology, or liquid crystal display (LCD!), and is a non-luminous technology. Non-LED LCDs mostly use CCFL as the light source. And do you know what his reply was? Utter nonsense, with a heavy misuse of jargon to try and impress the first customer, plus another that walked up to hear the conversation. It was complete technobabble. He even proceeded to state that I was confusing LCD TVs with LCD monitors. (But the technology are more or less identical!) Rather than learn something, he stuck his head farther up ... well, I'm sure you can guess the geography. There's just no dealing with stupid.

That eBay auction does not sound like a secure buy.

You may be forced to go the DataVideo TBC-1000 route. Or one of the other available models. However, it all likelihood, you'll need a budget of $300/350+ unless you get lucky.

I wish I could get a suspected "bad" unit to test here. Without buying one, of course. I'm willing to look at a bad TBC, if anybody wants to send it here.

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  #27  
04-21-2011, 06:45 PM
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This ATI 600 capturing problems have been moved here: ATI 600 card doesn't work in Windows 7, how to use?
Continue that topic there.
We'll leave this thread just for the TBC issues.

Thanks.

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  #28  
04-21-2011, 08:16 PM
newby newby is offline
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Do you have a scope/generator that you can actually test the TBC with? As it is, I have a week before B&H are back online so I could mail you my box. PM me an address.

On an aside... I don't know how much money your site brings in or your vhs archiving but have you guys thought about getting into hardware?
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  #29  
04-21-2011, 08:27 PM
newby newby is offline
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Similar situation to best buy: I frequently flame losers on forums. Only when they really deserve it though. :-) I HATE when people reply with 'use the search'.... as if the poor schmuck or myself hasn't allready tried! Or when someone just regurgitates garbage without actuly knowing the answer. Its not the fault of the person asking the 'dumb' question if the the forum is laid out like $hitt and the info is not redily available. If you can't back up your answer with hands on experience/pics/sources then shutup.
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  #30  
04-21-2011, 08:35 PM
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No scope, though I may be able to borrow one. Not really that important, layman tests from a keen eye and ability to A/B compare against known-good TBCs is all that really matters. To reverse engineer the actual problem, you'd need/want scopes and whatnot.

We used to flip hardware. Buy, repair/clean, resell. I have some JVC S-VHS decks currently in the repair/clean process, for that very thing. But it will be a while before any of that is ready -- months. I'm selling off an Intel P4 + ATI AIW 128 Pro right now. It's in the Marketplace forum. Relatively low cost, all things considered.

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  #31  
04-21-2011, 11:27 PM
Tuco Tuco is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newby View Post
windows 7 ultimate has virtualization built into it and has the ability to emulate xp quite well actully: http://www.microsoft.com/windows/vir.../download.aspx
I know you can virtualize the operating system itself (I have several virtual setups), but I was trying to say that I don't see capping being very successful via virtualization. I can see all kinds of problems there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kpmedia View Post
I wish I could get a suspected "bad" unit to test here. Without buying one, of course. I'm willing to look at a bad TBC, if anybody wants to send it here.
Well, I might just have a spare CTB-100 soon. I rolled the dice and purchased one from that seller. If it exhibits the same behavior as my AVT-8710 and I can't send it back, then have at it. This is what happens when you rush into things instead of just waiting it out a bit. *Fingers crossed*. Embarrassing because I don't usually go that route when shopping. I have money locked into purchases now that adds up to a brand new TBC-1000 if I just waited until the end of May. *Slap!*

Anyway, I'll let everyone know how it goes with the new unit....if it arrives.
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  #32  
04-26-2011, 01:02 AM
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Alright, as follow-up...

(1) DataVideo DAC-100 DV converter. As I had suspected, it does analog pass-through, and has a frame synchronizer that works in the passthrough mode. I can't get it to work on s-video, but that may just be my copy of the unit -- it's of unknown origin and care. Composite is fine. I was able to record a copy protected retail tape to a a quick test DVD (about 5 minutes worth), so it should be fine on any problem source. I bought it for all of $35 shipped. MSRP on these was at least $200 about 7 years ago. This was often referred to as a "Canopus ADVC-100 clone" but it's really not. The Canopus has no frame sync. I believe the Canopus also DV encoded the input before output. I'm keeping this for my second project stack.

(2) Key West Big Voodoo BVTBC. This unit freaks out on the JVC blue screen, too, but it seems to work fine as a frame sync. It does nothing for horizontal jitter, as I had hoped. I think the next models, the BVTBC8 and/or BVTBC10 may do that, however. My copy has odd pixel glitches on s-video, but composite looks fine. Unsure what causes this. I've seen these infrequently on eBay from $100-400, and this was a $800+ TBC when new about 9-10 years ago. These were made for just a few years by Key West, then they quit. Three models in about a six-year time frame. I may sell this in the future.

If you put the BVTBC into genlock mode, and no genlock is attached, it misbehaves and acts really erratic -- almost in the way being described by some of these posts. Interesting!!!! I wonder if these particular AVT-8710 units you guys have have a specific single bad circuit.

Those are two more AVT-8710 / CTB-100 alternatives, that still have a non-rack size. (Rack mounts units are larger than VCRs, and a nuisance to use in any non-rack environment.)

I would not give up on the AVT-8710, however!!! I think it's a superior option. By far the cleanest and most transparent TBC (AGC correction, frame sync, etc) of the available choices.

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  #33  
04-27-2011, 10:52 AM
newby newby is offline
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I personally dont care if it's rack mount or not... I just want something that works for about the same price point as the AVT unit.

I just got off the phone with B&H... They are going to 'look into the issue and ship another unit out'.
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  #34  
04-27-2011, 07:20 PM
Tuco Tuco is offline
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Just finished testing my new CTB-100. It exhibits the same problem. I think I will hold out for a new TBC-1000 until the issue is resolved.
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  #35  
04-27-2011, 10:29 PM
Tuco Tuco is offline
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Thanks for the insight, LS!

There must be something I/we are missing. This is my first experience using a TBC so perhaps I am expecting it to do more than it is supposed to. Kind of how people think the new weight loss pill is the magic bullet of obesity.

Both my AVT-8710 and the CTB-100 freak out on the JVC blue screen. But I don't get that same effect when playing a video. I can live with a messed up JVC OSD ( I don't really sit around and cap myself flipping around the jvc settings ).

However, I noticed that I get a lot of vertical "jumping" on several of my tapes, even an SP dub of the 1960's Batman animated series. Because I dubbed it in SP, I expect more from it (Not saying I should, but I have SP is Flawless Disease). Granted, it is worse without the TBC than with it, but I would expect it to not jump vertically at all with a TBC ( correct me if I am wrong ). I have even tried using it in conjunction with the built-in "TBC" on the JVC SR-V10U. That just makes it worse, but it is mostly solid colors and the DNR looks excellent so I am obsessed about making it work. The error I get is something similiar to what you would see if you got the field order wrong and tried to watch it on an interlaced TV. I'll see if I can take some screen caps, but the desktop is out of commision until my new MB arrives. Some parts of the video get jerky and "stuttery", for lack of a better term. If you've ever made an SVCD back in the day and got the field order wrong, then you know what I'm talking about.

I'm thinking of holding on to the CTB-100 because the AVT has already gone back and I think I may be expecting a magic bullet here when it really isn't. I've only got two VCRs to test with, so so I'm starting to think that just because it doesn't work in one prosumer JVC ( SR-V10U in my case ) doesn't mean another high-end JVC (or the recommended Mitsubishi model on this site) won't do better.

Maybe instead of dropping $500 on a brand new TBC-1000, I should use those resources to purchase another high-end VCR?

If I decide to keep this TBC for now ( have 12 days to decide ) then maybe I can ship it to someone on this site to test, who has a more extensive line of hardware and experience than myself and can confirm if its the TBC or "magic bullet" syndrome.

I'll keep the thread updated as I test more sources.

Last edited by Tuco; 04-27-2011 at 10:41 PM.
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  #36  
04-28-2011, 06:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newby View Post
I personally dont care if it's rack mount or not....
You will once you see how hot those often get, and how much room they'll take up. Put two VCRs side by side, then add an oven underneath. That's a rack-mounted TBC.

Quote:
for about the same price point as the AVT unit.
That will always be the issue.

Quote:
I just got off the phone with B&H... They are going to 'look into the issue and ship another unit out'
Yeah, I can imagine how that will go:
  • BH: Hi, we have reports that your units may be faulty. Any truth to that?
  • AVT: No.
  • BH: Okay, thanks.
That's just my experience. Good prices, great product selection, yet run with some level of incompetence about their own products. I blasted them in a post on Videohelp a couple years ago, because salesmen were known to upsell TBC buyers on Canopus ADVC boxes, claiming they "did the same thing" when that's ridiculous. (A DV converter is not a TBC. Although a DAC-100 could replace one, it seems, given its frame sync and VBI blanking.) After that public interaction, I never again heard of B&H upselling a DV converter for a TBC.

I probably could have handled that a little nicer, but it really started to irritate me. I would suggest somebody get a TBC, and next thing you know, they had a Canopus converter and were again asking me why they were having "copyright" troubles on their homemade tapes. ARGH! (Granted, those questions askers were apparently very easy to manipulate. Not the brightest crayons in the box.)

All criticism aside, I still suggest people buy certain things at B&H.

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  #37  
05-11-2011, 05:42 AM
newby newby is offline
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so third unit arrived. s/n 2238406013982

JVC 9911> AVT-8710 w/ S-vid: image is ok until the JVC tbc kicks in. then its ghosting. if you turn tbc off once the ghosting has started, the AVT does not recover until you cycle power. with the JVC TBC off and all other options enabled, the AVT is ok until the tape gets a little rough, then it ghosts. in edit mode and all enhancements turned off the image looks ok but is much more sensitive to the tape irregularities and ghosts much sooner. in otherwords with out S3 enabled it really sucks.

JVC 9911> AVT-8710 w/composite vid: image looks like crap and ghosts almost instantly no matter what options are selected.

JVC 9911 > straight to tv with s-vid: looks pretty good. during the rough patches where the TBC and S3 are getting a work out you can barely catch the image shift vertically... you really have to be looking for it. other then that, there are no other artifacts.
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  #38  
05-16-2011, 12:33 PM
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I'd like to see some more photos or sample video clips.
Something is odd here.

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  #39  
05-16-2011, 12:43 PM
newby newby is offline
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frankly I'd like box the JVC and AVT up and send it to someone with a scope. very frustrated.

I will hopefully get the ATI stick installed tomorrow (still no guide but apparently its suppose to be go right in... guess I was just in a hurry before) and get some capture shots.

Like i said, different cables, sources, composite and S Vid. I wish I had another VCR... I might ask the neighbors if they have one just for due diligence.
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  #40  
05-16-2011, 12:47 PM
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Quote:
I wish I had another VCR... I might ask the neighbors if they have one just for due diligence.
That may be a good idea -- verify the VCR output is clean. (Eliminate variables.)

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