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  #21  
09-10-2021, 04:07 PM
lollo2 lollo2 is online now
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MCBob yes, is from dideč, MVBob is from scharfis_brain. Re-touchč!

TDeint in default mode is also not lossless IIRC

Edit:
Quote:
Yadif without mode=1 isn't a bobber, so that doesn't count.
???

P.S.: a good deinterlacer is not lossless

Last edited by lollo2; 09-10-2021 at 04:19 PM.
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  #22  
09-10-2021, 04:25 PM
msgohan msgohan is offline
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To clarify: by default, Yadif is a single-rate deinterlacer. With mode=1 it's a bobber (double-rate deinterlacer). You listed "Yadiff without mode=1", well without double-rate output of course it does much worse than altering the fields, it throws out half of them.
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  #23  
09-10-2021, 04:28 PM
lollo2 lollo2 is online now
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int mode = 0
0 : single frame rate, temporal and spatial interlacing check (default).
1 : double frame rate, temporal and spatial interlacing check.
2 : single frame rate, skips spatial interlacing check.
3 : double frame rate, skips spatial interlacing check.
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  #24  
09-10-2021, 05:10 PM
msgohan msgohan is offline
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The sad part is that I actually read that section of the Wiki before posting. I'll take your word for it that mode=3 is lossy; never used it.
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  #25  
09-10-2021, 05:15 PM
lollo2 lollo2 is online now
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I did several experiment to find a lossless deinterlacer for my restoration flow, but it was loooong time ago, so do no trust me too much
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  #26  
09-10-2021, 08:03 PM
latreche34 latreche34 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobustReviews View Post
I upload full uncompressed, but I'm not convinced it makes any difference.
You get convinced by trying, I've been uploading samples to youtube and download them back to computer and compare the downloads to each other, I've seen less compression artifacts on the HuffYUV ones vs the 4:2:2 h.264 pre encoded ones. I tried several captures (SP, EP, V8, Hi8, S-VHS ...) over the span of 2 years, The first year was mainly playing with 480i vs 480p vs 720p vs 1080p, it didn't take long to find out that 1080p was the best.
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  #27  
09-10-2021, 08:07 PM
RobustReviews RobustReviews is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by latreche34 View Post
You get convinced by trying, I've been uploading samples to youtube and download them back to computer and compare the downloads to each other, I've seen less compression artifacts on the HuffYUV ones vs the 4:2:2 h.264 pre encoded ones. I tried several captures (SP, EP, V8, Hi8, S-VHS ...) over the span of 2 years, The first year was mainly playing with 480i vs 480p vs 720p vs 1080p, it didn't take long to find out that 1080p was the best.
What's your YouTube channel?
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  #28  
09-10-2021, 10:55 PM
latreche34 latreche34 is offline
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Few posts above, I didn't post the samples publicly, just for my own testing, I upload TV commercials now.
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  #29  
09-11-2021, 12:23 AM
deckhanddavy deckhanddavy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by latreche34 View Post
That workflow butchers the video especially if youtube is the final transmission, Never encode for youtube just feed it the lossless file after resizing it to 1440x1080 and preferably de-interlaced with QTGMC, Yes it may take the whole night to upload but your video doesn't get double encoded. Never use NLE software, they tend to transcode the video just to be compliant and they encode again when you make the import to the final codec, yikes. And most importantly never convert SDI to HDMI, big mistake, just feed it to computer using a SDI-USB interface.
Pls share your channel. I’d love to see it. Mine is Dave’s Archives.
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  #30  
09-11-2021, 01:09 AM
latreche34 latreche34 is offline
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I did, as I said few posts above, I think post #12, It's an enfant channel with much room to grow, though I'm not willing to make any money out of it, just sharing the memories.
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  #31  
09-11-2021, 06:16 AM
RobustReviews RobustReviews is offline
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I guess that the latreche34 YouTube channel isn't anything to do with you then?
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  #32  
09-11-2021, 10:20 AM
deckhanddavy deckhanddavy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by latreche34 View Post
I did, as I said few posts above, I think post #12, It's an enfant channel with much room to grow, though I'm not willing to make any money out of it, just sharing the memories.
Very cool. Looks like I’m already subscribed to your channel.
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  #33  
09-12-2021, 05:14 AM
lollo2 lollo2 is online now
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Quote:
latreche34
You get convinced by trying, I've been uploading samples to youtube and download them back to
and compare the downloads to each other, I've seen less compression artifacts on the HuffYUV
ones vs the 4:2:2 h.264 pre encoded ones.
Quote:
lollo2
For long videos (> 10 minutes), I also compress to x264 before uploading to youtube, with a crf=17.
Uploading HuffYUV in principle is always the best if no time and/or disk space is relevant, but I want to share my experiment on my last youtube video, created for a friend:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiQj3k4orIo&t=62s

which has been uploaded after a x264 compression with crf=17.

I uploaded also a small sequence without x264 compression, using the HuffYUV file.

I then downloaded the 2 videos elaborated by youtube with JDownloader 2 and compared them.

video comparison:
source_yt.avi

image comparison:
Youtube after processing: mp4 versus huffYUV
https://imgsli.com/NzA5MDQ

I see no significat difference, which I suspect to be not good, because it means that the youtube compression (applied on both) may hyde the small quality difference of the lossless file

However, when I also compare the files before upload (and then before youtube compression) I see a very very small difference in term of quality (i reinvented the whell, low crf x264 compression is almost transparent)

video comparison:
source.avi

image comparison:
Youtube source: mp4 versus huffYUV
https://imgsli.com/NzA5MDM

For my videos there is not significant difference after upload if a crf=17 x264 compression is performed before upload, so, while for small duration video I will still upload huffYUV version, for long video I will compress to x264 with crf=17 before upload.


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  #34  
09-12-2021, 01:32 PM
latreche34 latreche34 is offline
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Just a side note, When resizing to 1080 there is no reason to keep the black borders around the frame, The resizing of lines and pixels will not be an integer ratio, the mathemathical approximation will have to be done anyway so may as well remove the boarders and keep a clean frame.
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  #35  
09-12-2021, 02:26 PM
lollo2 lollo2 is online now
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Good hint, the problem is that I have a different "active" image in each capture, so, in the fear of introducing a distortion, I add the black borders removed during the filtering and then resize to 1440x1080, by default.

Specially for letterbox video the final result is horrible, I will try to improve it.
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  #36  
09-12-2021, 02:58 PM
latreche34 latreche34 is offline
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I set custom visual cropping for each tape, Commercials are tricky, they don't have the same active area so I find the sweet spot for all, AVSPmod allows me to scroll through the time line and see each segment so the final crop works for most of the video, once satisfied I hit apply, It also allows me to see the de-interlacing results and resizing instantly, pretty neat.

If you look at my videos you'll still see some odd ball commercials with black bars left over but 90% of the video looks fine.

The TV overscan days took away more than what we crop now in digital capture, almost like 20 pixels on each side but we never noticed.
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  #37  
09-12-2021, 03:19 PM
lollo2 lollo2 is online now
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I do the same, and just as example, this is a set of some of the "active area" I found on my 720x576 captures:

# width x height
# 698x544
# 688x560
# 690x560
# 690x562
# 688x564
# 704x552
# 688x570
# 694x566
# 694x570


Assuming that the 4:3 PAL SD aspect ratio is based on the 720x576 non-square pixel capture, or better on the 704x576 non-square pixel area, if I crop every video to its active area and then blindly resize to 1440x1080, the "proportion" of one will not be the same of another, and not by a negligible amount

That's why I keep the original black borders, but may be I am just over-processing...
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  #38  
09-12-2021, 03:42 PM
latreche34 latreche34 is offline
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Unfortunatly it is based on 704x576 for PAL/SECAM and 704x480 for NTSC (refer to the circle test I made over at VH), But for cropping you can drift away from that ratio by up to 5 pixels vertically or horizontally before it can be noticeable, and honestly most people don't even notice 720x576 and 720x480 directly formatted into 4:3. Some are even okay with 4:3 being stretched to 16:9, even some clueless technicians did it at the proffesional level in TV stations back in the day.

https://www.youtube.com/user/latoak34/videos
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  #39  
09-12-2021, 04:05 PM
lollo2 lollo2 is online now
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Quote:
Unfortunatly it is based on 704x576 for PAL/SECAM and 704x480 for NTSC (refer to the circle test I made over at VH)
That's what I said, and your experiment was what convinced me! (I repeated on my side as well)

Quote:
honestly most people don't even notice 720x576 and 720x480 directly formatted into 4:3.
Uhm, that's honestly too much, but people are strange. But I upload the video for myself and some friends only.

Quote:
Some are even okay with 4:3 being stretched to 16:9, even some clueless technicians did it at the proffesional level in TV stations back in the day.
That's one of the reason why in Italy and in general in Europe (except Germany and maybe BBC in UK) the broadcasted programs are so bad even nowadays

Edit: even if it not a crime like 4:3 being stretched to 16:9, but rather a "mutilation", here a sample of commercial vhs and dvb-s dump of the same movie through the years:
uaraat_versioni.mp4



Last edited by lollo2; 09-12-2021 at 04:51 PM.
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  #40  
09-13-2021, 05:27 PM
bluegrassdj bluegrassdj is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deckhanddavy View Post
Mine is Dave’s Archives.
i found this old news report about hdtv from 1989 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIEE6ryfKNI do you have any idea what the commercials are in this video? they're in the first 3 minutes. since you have several videos about japanese commercials i figured you might know. i'm curious if there are hd versions of those commercials floating around out there. i'm an old school hd enthusiast and i've been tracking down lots of hd footage from the 80s and 90s. example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRS_kKDWwe8

Quote:
Originally Posted by latreche34 View Post
Never encode for youtube just feed it the lossless file after resizing it to 1440x1080
how do you do a lossless resize? going from 720x480 to 1440x1080 don't you have to re-encode? or is it a metadata aspect ratio resize. like changing the display aspect ratio from 3:2 to 1440:1080. but then i'd be worried youtube would ignore the metadata and you get a 720x480 video.
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