VHS audio really hot, no audio on capture device?

[Shakedown St.]

I'm having a really strange dilemma while trying to capture the HiFi XLR outputs on my Sony SVO-5800 to my capture device for listening back.

I purchased a Focusrite 2i2 in hopes I would be able to make audio recordings. For some reason one particular VHS tape is reading an extremely hot signal. Maxed out levels in the red.

When I plug the XLR from the VCR into the Focusrite inputs it shows it's detecting a signal because the colors flash orange and red, but monitoring with headphones I hear almost nothing. Extremely faint silence and weird distortion noise. Audacity won't record anything. XLR cables are brand new.

However, when I monitor from the headphone jack in the front of the Sony 5800 the audio sounds fine. Does it appear I am doing something wrong on my end? I have phantom turned off.

[dpalomaki]

If only one tape has "bad" audio it likely is the recording if other tapes play OK with exact the same setup.

Otherwise there are several possibilities but you post does not have sufficient detail to pinpoint it. A couple items to check follow. Is the image you posed from the VCR panel?

Very weak audio from a tape that sounds normal in the VCR headphone jack may result from phase reversal in an incorrectly wired balanced-to-unbalanced connection. It could also result from a recording that contains a stereo tracks in which one of the channels was recorded with reversed phase. Your VCR offers stereo linear track capability so that adds to the possibilities.

Over loud audio may result from connecting a +4 dBu professional output to a -10 dBV input, or connecting the audio to the 2i2 using XLR-to-XLR cable. The XLR input may be intended for mic level signals only per the manual I saw. For line level audio you should use XLR-to-TRS phone cables.

[timtape]

The photo shows the audio maxing out on the meter but the meter only reads up to +5db. HiFi audio started overloading at around +10 db, 5 db higher than the Sony meters even read. HiFi audio is very quiet so no need to record at such high levels. I guess the designers knew many consumers would try to record at levels close to overload as if they were recording to a noisy audio cassette, so the designers made it look like we were recording much closer to overload than we actually were, forcing us to be more conservative in levels. The track may not be overloaded, and your listening from the VCR headphone jack seems to confirm this.

I agree with dpalomaki that the connections between your VCR audio output and the interface need sorting out. XLR to XLR may look right but there is a huge overload/mismatch going on there. This may have even damaged the preamps in the Focusrite.

As an alternative to dpalomaki's suggestion, you could purchase two XLR to XLR pad adaptors to greatly reduce the signal level down to mic level suitable for the Focusrite mic inputs. I'm not sure what the exact reduction would be needed. Perhaps as much as 40 to 60db.

[Shakedown St.]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dpalomaki

If only one tape has "bad" audio it likely is the recording if other tapes play OK with exact the same setup.

Quote:

Originally Posted by timtape

I guess the designers knew many consumers would try to record at levels close to overload as if they were recording to a noisy audio cassette, so the designers made it look like we were recording much closer to overload than we actually were, forcing us to be more conservative in levels. The track may not be overloaded, and your listening from the VCR headphone jack seems to confirm this

I agree with dpalomaki that the connections between your VCR audio output and the interface need sorting out. XLR to XLR may look right but there is a huge overload/mismatch going on there. This may have even damaged the preamps in the Focusrite.

Yes all tapes played through the Sony could not be picked up by the Focusrite, and the outlier was like you said it sounds perfectly fine when listening through the headphone jack. The volume control knobs seem to be disabled during playback. I hear no distortion from the headphone jack.

So I'm going to purchase an XLR to TRS line level adapter and see what happens. If that does not work I am going to try the pad adapters. I would prefer that because then I wouldn't be going from a balanced to an unbalanced signal. Seems like I overloaded the Focusrite. Hopefully no damage.

So it appears these were designed for pro line level consoles. Makes sense seeing this is a pro broadcasting deck.

Update: I just realized on the back of the VCR I had selected +4dBm. There is an option to select 0dBm and -6dBm. I am going to run tests and report back. Silly me. It's probably still not enough to allow me to run directly into mic pres though.

Update: Nope still no audible signal I can hear. Going to stop before I break the 2i2. Should have known. I had assumed if you kept gain at zero you could use XLR inputs as line level. That's not the case with these USB interfaces.

https://support.focusrite.com/hc/en-...-my-Interface-

[dpalomaki]

A few additional points to consider.

Audio levels on home VHS recordings were typically set by the VCR or camcorders AGC, and often at near max record levels, subject to the limits of the AGC system; i.e., they were recorded with minimal head room and will sound louder than professionally done recordings.

The Sony has low impedance audio outputs, perhaps 600 ohm. When connected to a higher impedance input you may see as much as 6 dB voltage gain compared to a similar input, depending on the actual impedance.

While the nominal audio output might be as low as -6 dBu, mic level is still 30 dB (or more) lower, so a 40 dB pad or XLR to TRS cable is the better solution.

The lack of even distorted audio output from the XLR jacks is odd. Do you have any way of testing he XLR audio output beyond the using the 2i2? Which audio output jacks are you using? Do the tapes have a HiFI track recorded. I ask because the manual implies that one set of jacks only outputs the HiFi track (if present). Also are there any menu settings for the audio output that might be problematic?