Quantcast Internal TBC On or Off with ES10/15+DVK-100/200? - digitalFAQ Forum
12-07-2021, 05:41 PM
arkoe arkoe is offline
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Good evening y'all,

If anyone can help me out with a quick question regarding the use of an internal TBC, it'd be much appreciated.

After hours of reading LordSmurf's posts from all over the place, I've began (slowly) collecting the equipment necessary to capture my family's 350+ VHS-Cs, and have only one piece left, the tape deck.
I didn't go with a full TBC like an 8710 or TBC-1000 just because the tapes are already fairly degraded, and I got a sore **** deal on the DVK.

Currently, I've got:
[Nothing] ->
Good, tested DataVideo DVK-200 ->
LNIB ATI All-In-Wonder 9600 128MB [Asus K8S-LA, AMD Athlon 64 3400+, 2GB DDR-400, Turtle Beach Santa Cruz]

My main problem seems to be differing (or at least unclear) opinions as to whether not to use the internal TBC with the ES10/15+DVK. To my understanding, the frame TBC in the DVK is weak, and isn't particularly fond of VHS outputs so you've gotta use the ES10 to clean it up a tad. Makes sense to me.

The conflicting opinions begin here:
The DVK is a (weak) frame TBC, and frame TBCs should be used downstream from internal/line TBCs.
The ES10 conflicts with internal TBCs and should be turned off when it's being used.

This same question was submitted in this post
Is Datavideo DVK-200 same as DVK-100 for VHS capture?
but appears to never have quite been answered.

My assumption is no, you can save a little bit of money and get yourself a good Non-TBC deck like an AG-1960 or SR-S365U (or not, can't get a clear opinion on which JVCs eat VHS-Cs, but if nothing else I can always just swap thrift store clamshells) and get good enough results, which is what we're going for. Half of these things are moldy, a quarter reused a few times, although the last quarter are actually in pretty good shape. You're not gonna get a clean read off of them anyways, getting anything off of them at all will make me happy.

Like I said any helps greatly appreciated, the decks all I'm waiting for to get this all going.
Unless I'm missing something else too. Either way, y'all stay safe and Merry Christmas.
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12-07-2021, 11:47 PM
keaton keaton is offline
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I believe to see the benefits of an ES-10/15, it would need a signal straight from the player, before any attempts to modify it with a frame TBC. Although, I'm not sure adding that TBC will do anything else after the ES-10/15 is done with it. There is the possibility that you could get more vertical jitter when you have multiple TBC or Pseudo-TBCs chained together. Each was probably designed to assume a raw uncorrected signal is the input, and not some type of reconstructed/corrected signal. Once the first TBC cleans the signal, not sure there's much left to clean. I understand the differences between line and frame TBC. However, I have experienced that the ES-10/15 has more than just line TBC type of behavior (such as fixing flagging at the top of the screen). I don't know the engineering details. But it is my impression/experience that it provides a clean frame sync out, which is more of what a frame TBC is expected to do. So although an ES-10/15 is not a TBC "proper", it has behavior that seems to do some line and frame type TBC behavior. So I suspect chaining it to a frame TBC may not do much, and may cause vertical jitter.

I was confused by the post. So to be clear, the ES-10/15 TBC like properties is not something that can be turned on or off. The advice about line TBCs being disabled with ES-10/15 is referring to a VCR with an internal line TBC. It is my experience that if you do have output from a VCR with line TBC enabled, don't use the ES-10/15 as a passthru. Sometimes the line TBC on a VCR needs to be shut off if it causes issues. One such issue is when the line TBC of a VCR and the external frame TBC cannot play nice together and create a lot of vertical jitter. When faced with that situation or using a VCR that does not have a line TBC, then the ES-10/15 is a good option to try.

Having said all that, these are just my notions and experiences. It's good to read and learn from others' experiences. But, the more you get into analog video, you'll experience lots of quirks and unexpected surprises when trying things. So, above all, you'll likely have to do your own experimenting to find what works in your case. And what works for one tape does not guarantee it will work for another. Tape condition is a big factor. If a tape is in good/great condition, you may not need as much hardware. Try using as little as needed to get it to your satisfaction.

You mentioned mold. I won't go into it that much here, but the advice around here is to be extremely careful with that, and do not play them in any machine you care about before you have cleaned the tape of mold (if you choose to go down that road). Many would say to still not put a tape cleaned of mold into a machine you care about. Mold is a complex subject, and it depends on what kind, where it is on the tape (i.e. just the top of the reel or on the playing surface of the tape), and the severity of the condition. If you see it on the reel, it's probably in the shell also. Not something to be taken lightly, and pursue at your own peril. Do your homework and be prepared if you choose to handle moldy tapes.

Best of luck to you.
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