Analog videotape capture, workflow and equipment?

[jimca]

Hi folks,

I started on my home video digitization journey a few weeks ago, and it has been nothing but trouble. I'm beginning to think I should have just sent my tapes off to a professional, but I've already invested a lot of time, energy, and money into this project, so I'm hoping I can complete it.

First, I've purchased a few pieces of equipment:

1. Blackmagic Intensity 4K for analog capture
2. Sony Digital Handcam for MiniDV capture via FireWire (works!)
3. Multiple Sony Video8/Hi8 Handycams
4. Cheap GoVideo VCR from a thrift shop

The digital capture via FireWire is working almost 100%. But the analog capture via the Intensity is causing me issues. I'm able to capture the tapes, but having a lot of quality issues.

I have read that the JVC and Panasonic SVHS players are the best. Is the built-in TBC sufficient? Will it also correct my handycams when I run them into the video input?

Based on everything I've read, I probably need to buy a stand-alone Time Base Corrector, but these all seem to be extremely expensive and rare. Looks like one will set me back at least $1000. Is the TBC-1000 really the lowest cost option out there? Are the consumer-grade TBCs really that bad?

[Eric-Jan]

Be fully aware, that there are people in these groups that are spreading lots of myths about BlackMagicDesign,
Panasonic brightness output, people who ask $1000 for a TBC, are speculators, the good ones have indeed gone through many repairs, due to ageing, even than i doubt good working, because most of them where not really made for the "quality" VHS or any analog tape format gives off.
Having a passthrough device like a DVD/HDD recorder or recorder combo from Panasonic with the VHS refresh feature would be a good choice in your case, there are lists of suitable ones on the Videohelp forum in the Capture section, advantage is also, in that case, capture of long-play recordings will be possible, which doesn't work with a TBC, most of the time.
Most posts also "feature" NTSC experiences, PAL will be much better in quality for that matter.

[lordsmurf]

To add some context for the OP here...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric-Jan

Be fully aware, that there are people in these groups that are spreading lots of myths about BlackMagicDesign,

Blackmagic card have many issues with SD analog video, which was confirmed by BM techs multiple times over the years. TBCs are required for their use. BM cards are HD cards that "also do" SD analog, and quite poorly.

Quote:

people who ask $1000 for a TBC, are speculators, the good ones have indeed gone through many repairs, due to ageing,

Correct, never get TBCs from random places, especially not eBay. Those sellers only see $$$ without knowing how units should work, and they wouldn't know a TBC from a toaster. There are a few of us that refurb this gear, because all of it now requires a refurb of some sort, all of it being 15-25 years old now.

Quote:

even than i doubt good working, because most of them where not really made for the "quality" VHS or any analog tape format gives off.

You also should not buy random "TBCs", many of which are actually not TBCs, or were made for non-consumer sources (not VHS, not Video/Hi8, etc).

Quote:

Having a passthrough device like a DVD/HDD recorder or recorder combo from Panasonic with the VHS refresh feature would be a good choice

This is debatable. For starters, it's not just any random DVD recorders, but only specific models that can be usede. Second, DVD recorders are not TBCs, and add as many quality issues as they fix, especially in PAL lands (hot luma). Or in NTSC, if using wrong connect (HDMI, component out = butchered quality from videeotape source).

Quote:

Most posts also "feature" NTSC experiences, PAL will be much better in quality for that matter.

Not true. For example, I've owned PAL gear for 25 years now, and have added to it over the years. I have two full PAL workflows to handle VHS, S-VHS, Video8, Hi8, as well as digital PAL formats. Many of us may discuss NTSC, but that's because NTSC and PAL are not that different in most ways. And when they do differ, we mention it.

[jimca]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

Blackmagic card have many issues with SD analog video, which was confirmed by BM techs multiple times over the years. TBCs are required for their use. BM cards are HD cards that "also do" SD analog, and quite poorly.

Darn. I was able to capture the video attached to this post with my Intensity 4K. It's decent quality, except for the audible buzzing. Not sure what is causing that.

I did need to disable the "Stop capture if dropped frames are detected." Surprisingly there aren't a ton of dropped frames in the tapes I've captured so far.
Screenshot from 2023-12-18 12-24-48.png

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordsmurf

Correct, never get TBCs from random places, especially not eBay. Those sellers only see $$$ without knowing how units should work, and they wouldn't know a TBC from a toaster. There are a few of us that refurb this gear, because all of it now requires a refurb of some sort, all of it being 15-25 years old now.

You also should not buy random "TBCs", many of which are actually not TBCs, or were made for non-consumer sources (not VHS, not Video/Hi8, etc).

Good to know. I'm not sure I really need a frame sync TBC at this stage. I'm happy with the quality I'm getting without one, though if I can find one at a reasonable price I might bite... If I do purchase more equipment, I'm not sure if I should:

A) get a decent VCR with line TBC
B) get a decent VCR with no TBC and use external frame TBC
C) A + B
D) Only A (and accept the occasional frame drops)

[lordsmurf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimca

Hi folks,
I started on my home video digitization journey a few weeks ago, and it has been nothing but trouble.

There's so much bad info out there that I'm not surprised. Between Youtube video proclaiming cheap Chinese junk to be best, to "it worked for me" Reddit/wherever posts, you can be disallusioned easily. As you've already seen yourself, buying donated junk at a thrift store, and using items not made for the task (HD cards for SD videotape capture, amongst many others), does not give good results.

Random results, yes.
Good results, no.

Quote:

I'm beginning to think I should have just sent my tapes off to a professional, but I've already invested a lot of time, energy, and money into this project, so I'm hoping I can complete it.

Also realize that a lot of "professionals" know as much as, or less, than you do. It fully depends on where you go. If you send off to a transfer mill like LegacyBox, you're shipping into a void of random people, using crummy gear, and you'll get back lousy results. Or lost tapes, get back nothing.

You can do better with DIY -- but you need quality gear, and it takes a bit of learning. No random gear, not impatience.

Quote:

I have read that the JVC and Panasonic SVHS players are the best. Is the built-in TBC sufficient? Will it also correct my handycams when I run them into the video input?

The "built-in" TBC is a line TBC, which cleans the image. You need some to clean/stabilize the signal, which is were frame TBC or TBC(ish) come in. There are budget options, but it's not sold on Amazon, and you can't trust eBay sellers (as they know nothing about the gear, all claims of "tested/working" are BS).

Quote:

Based on everything I've read, I probably need to buy a stand-alone Time Base Corrector, but these all seem to be extremely expensive and rare. Looks like one will set me back at least $1000. Is the TBC-1000 really the lowest cost option out there?

For frame TBC, I'm no longer actively suggesting DataVideo TBC-1000, because those are all having issues now, caps are failing, even chips are failing. All need refurbs. Too many people keep getting burnt from buying these old failed units on eBay -- and no, the return policy does not help, newbies rarely realize the problem within 30 days. The 1000 was never my favorite TBC anyway.

There are other options, certain TBC(ish) type units to be had for half that.

Quote:

Are the consumer-grade TBCs really that bad?

"consumer TBC" is an oxymoron.

Once upon a time, decades ago, TBCs were made for professionals to work with sources. Professional sources, or consumer sources. TBCs for consumer sources included many DataVideos (not all), but also others.

But then you could produce your own videos at home, DVD burners, capture cards, and we all had to adopt the same tools. S-VHS VCRs, TBCs. Or make bad conversions by using the wrong tools, or no tools.

Carpentry is no different.
- Pro tools are simple, basic, like measuring tapes and hammers.
- Lazy amateurs try to use their foot to measure, and make bad whatevers.

These are just tools for the task of video conversion.

So "consumer TBC" is like "consumer tape measure". It's just a TBC, it's just a tape measure. A hammer is a hammer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimca

I did need to disable the "Stop capture if dropped frames are detected." Surprisingly there aren't a ton of dropped frames in the tapes I've captured so far.

That's not good to do at all. That just creates audio sync issues.

Quote:

Good to know. I'm not sure I really need a frame sync TBC at this stage. I'm happy with the quality I'm getting without one,

It's not about quality, but signal integrity. Which TBC, the video does whatever it wants, and you capture random footage as a result. Data is missing, and the audio skews.

Quote:

though if I can find one at a reasonable price I might bite... If I do purchase more equipment, I'm not sure if I should:
A) get a decent VCR with line TBC
B) get a decent VCR with no TBC and use external frame TBC
C) A + B
D) Only A (and accept the occasional frame drops)

- Never D, never without some sort of frame.
- Not B, you need line for the video to not look like wiggle noisy crap.

Ideal is some path to A+B, quality S-VHS VCR with line TBC, and at least some budget TBC(ish) to provide a minimal weak line correction. But noting the more budget you go with gear, the more problems you have. You will pay, either in money or time/sanity. No freebies with video. Otherwise we'd all be doing it.

Seriously, who here nejoys buying boring boxes for $500+? No me. But it's the tool I need for this task. Realyl no different from buying washing machines, lawnmowers, sewing machines, etc. Just a tool for this task, the end.