Can I capture VHS with Open Source Scan Converter? (OSSC)?

[Mr Brown]

Hi there,
I'm a retro gaming enthusiast who is now branching out into VHS capture and wondering if the same equipmentit I use for upscaling 240p, 480p outputs could be put to good use.

I've just picked up a Panasonic NV SF2000 from a charity shop (may the AV Gods have mercy and bless me with a functional device).

Any feedback would be gratefuly received.

[lordsmurf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Brown

Hi there,
I'm a retro gaming enthusiast who is now branching out into VHS capture and wondering if the same equipmentit I use for upscaling 240p, 480p outputs could be put to good use.

I've just picked up a Panasonic NV SF2000 from a charity shop (may the AV Gods have mercy and bless me with a functional device).

Any feedback would be gratefuly received.

Never, ever, put your VHS (or VHS-C) tapes into a camcorder for playback. Not now, not in the 2020s. It's more likely to eat the tape than not. And unlike a VCR, you cannot easily remove the tape without incurring further major damage.

Realize that retro gaming capture has nothing in common with videotape capturing. Retro/console video game capture is fun, nifty, unique, etc, in its own way. Enjoy it for what it is, but don't try to translate it elsewhere. OSSC may be fine for retro gaming capture, but that's not going to work for VHS sources.

Do not upscale videotapes before/during capture, you will lose massive quality.

VHS is 480i -- not 480p, not 240p.

After capturing the 480i, you can QTGMC deinterlace in software, and then upscale with Avisynth, Vapoursynth, or a few others if absolutely needed. Not crapware Topaz GUI "AI" junk, which just butchers SD videotape sources.

So that's the quick version to address what you wrote.

There's more to it. For starts, to convert videotapes, you need a standard workflow.
At minimum, that means
- a quality VCR (not your random idea of what "good" means, but vetted quality gear)
- some form of TBC (ideally both line+frame, which is really needed)
- a quality capture cards for videotapes -- not a gamer card, cheap card from Amazon/eBay, not some crap suggested by a clueless Youtuber -- actual quality cards, again as vetted by others known for video advice

Video conversion cannot be done on a lunch budget, not for the cost of a cheeseburger. A good/sensible video gear budget will match the proce of a nice desktop of laptop computer (not a Chinese tablet, or Chromebook). You can do a gamer/Mac budget, best gear, enjoyable experience. Or a Buy Best "blue plate special" budget, and get minimal budget gear (that isn't perfect, or even necessarily good), but it will minimally suffice.

These are tools for tasks. Video games and videotapes may both have "video" in the name, but so does video fluoroscopy, and that's about as divorced from games/tapes as it gets. Get the right tool, for the right task.

So there's some more info to chew on.

[Mr Brown]

Info to chew on indeed. Thanks for the quick reply.

I acknowledge my inexperience in these things and appreciate the feedback. I've been reading many of your posts and there is an heck of a lot to digest.

Perhaps I gave the wrong model number, but the device I purchased (I'm in the PAL region) is a VHS recorder/player rather than a camcorder. In fact, it's a device recommended through posts on this forum.

In regard to the OSSC, I was thinking more along the line of a pass through rather than upscaling (it can handle 480i with PS2). But I defer to your knowledge on degradation of quality.

I understand and agree that good quality cannot be achieved on a budget. I've owned the XRGB Framiester and invested in other digital solutions for my retro gaming that have made my bank account weep. However, I am interested in getting the most bang for my buck, so to speak.

I don't have a particular aversion to AI technology, actually I find what it can accomplish fascinating. No one can hold back the tide of innovation and progress. Instead, we use it to keep old technology alive (certainly in the gaming scene anyway).

I'll keep reading, learning, and perhaps share some of my experiences here for other people.

Cheers.

[lordsmurf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Brown

I acknowledge my inexperience in these things

We all do, in many areas.

Quote:

Perhaps I gave the wrong model number, but the device I purchased (I'm in the PAL region) is a VHS recorder/player rather than a camcorder. In fact, it's a device recommended through posts on this forum.

Ah, did you mean Panasonic NV-FS200? Great model S-VHS VCR with line TBC there!

Quote:

I don't have a particular aversion to AI technology, actually I find what it can accomplish fascinating. No one can hold back the tide of innovation and progress. Instead, we use it to keep old technology alive (certainly in the gaming scene anyway).

I fully agree. But there's a big difference between actual artificial intelligence, a rough regurgitator algorithm like ChatGPT (LLM), and total BS "AI" that is mostly just marketing for suckers (ie, Topaz software). The term "AI" has become just as abused as "cloud" now, or even "TBC" for video. I think my toaster does all 3 now!

Quote:

I'll keep reading, learning, and perhaps share some of my experiences here for other people.

Welcome.

[NJRoadfan]

That would be a hard no. The OSSC doesn't have composite or S-Video inputs, thus no VHS capture. So far the only gaming related device that might be a contender is the RetroTINK 5X since it has a 480i passthru mode and some TBC/frame buffer capability. I have yet to acquire one to test.

If you want your wallet to weep, there is always the RetroTINK 4K. That doesn't have a 480i passthru mode (yet?), but its clearly geared towards owners of 4K TVs. YouTuber EposVox has already stated to stick to your traditional video capture solutions for archiving tapes in his review. Surprisingly, some folks have been using its CRT filters to watch VHS and LaserDiscs.

[Mr Brown]

Thanks for your feedback.

You might be interested to know that the OSSC does indeed support composite and S-Video through the use of an add on board. I don't have one, but I am aware of them (roughly around £70 on eBay). I've never purchased one because I just wouldn't try to upscale those input sources when you can go with RGB scart, component, or VGA.

I know the OSSC isn't the best at interlaced signals, much like the XRGB mini. However, the newest retroTink would be a dream come true! I've seen the reviews and, "perfection" is the only word that comes to mind.

I'll take a look at the Youtube video you mentioned.

As a small update to my original post, my Panasonic NV FS200 actually works! The Gods have smiled upon me. Although, it took time to warm up? No video signal (composite or S- Video) at fist only audio, but after about 10 mins, it slowly restored itself? Is this at all normal or should I be concerned?

[aramkolt]

No reason not to see what the result is if you've already got all the hardware.

I think the idea with the OSSC would be to use the line-doubling feature and that'll essentially make your 480i into 480p 59.94 frames per second which then various HDMI capture cards will capture just fine.

The issue you are more likely to run into though is that your source probably has enough timebase errors that the OSSC will just choke on it, but maybe not, who knows? Should happen pretty quickly and be very obvious if it is going to. I'd be curious to see a posted sample of such a capture if you attempt it. Thing about video games is that they really don't have timebase errors since they are all digitally generated, so OSSC certainly wouldn't normally need the ability to tolerate those errors, but it's always possible that it can anyway, though that almost certainly was not a design consideration when they made it for its purpose-specific use.

[gunzel]

It’s not normal for a VCR to take ten minutes to warm up and emit video. I’d be getting it checked out.