Quantcast Hardware (re)considerations for capture (Panasonic, AVT-8710 etc.) - digitalFAQ Forum
Go Back    Forum > Digital Video > Video Project Help > Capture, Record, Transfer

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1  
12-30-2010, 09:36 PM
Kereellis Kereellis is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 57
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Like the title says, I'm looking for different hardware to add to my capture setup, so I made this thread as a semi-related follow-up to http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/show...lity-2736.html and some comments I made in the marketplace earlier.

First off, although I don't blame my tbc for the major gripe I have with how my captures look on tv (even though it may contribute slightly to the 'digitalized', unnatural look), Juhok's comments on the 1t-tbc about 'gritting' have made me more critical of some differences I had spotted between caps with and without the tbc device, which become notable when zooming in on certain screencaps or when stretching the capture to full screen. Given that all this time I used to be convinced that other tbc's too would affect the image and rearrange pixels compared to direct captures, I simply shrugged and decided to settle for what I had. However, now I have my doubts about the lack of better affordable options, so maybe you guys could have a look at the comparitive screenshots in the attachments, and tell me whether it seems like the AVT-8710 or even a tbc-1000 could bring some improvements (or possibly other quirks).

Screenshots:
1) excerpt from screenshot with tbc at 300%, the grit should be visible in the greyish background
2) excerpt from screenshot without tbc, the image looks like it's composed of horizontal lines only

Of course this is only a specific example of where the pixel structure can look disturbing. The effect appears a little worse in certain darker shaded backgrounds, while it's practically absent (or unnoticable) in more colorful daylight scenes. Nevertheless, no impact on the image quality by the tbc at all would be far more desirable of course.

Secondly, I've taken juhok's suggestion to look into the purchase of a (PAL) Panasonic seriously for a few trouble tapes causing time based errors (if that's indeed what it is I described here) that the 1t-tbc couldn't cure (apropos, I'm still interested in that HR-S9600 too however, but I'm still awaiting response from a local seller about one).

Anyway, also just in case I run into jvc-related jitter issues (or when I wish to recapture some important tapes with a different look), I'm interested in hearing what models of Panasonic (or series of models) are generally recommended for PAL, and what functions they should come with. For the time being, I've found a relatively cheap, said-to-be little used NVHS-900 on sale, and I'm willing to give it a try, but I'd like to hear what you guys have to say first.

Furthermore, I've decided to give up on the Shuttle and probably will attempt to exchange it for the PCI-E version of the Intensity Pro (perhaps the MXO2 Mini would have been nice for various future-oriented reasons, but not for it's capture quality I've understood, so I'd rather spread my budget). Then again, I noticed the break-out cable doesn't have an S-video input (which kept me from buying it the first time), and I wonder if it will yield a loss of quality compared to my Profigold S-vid cables if I use an s-vid -> component cable? (Naturally the ATI will stay in use too, but probably not for all future captures).

As a final addition, for it's phantom powered microphone input and allegedly crisp playback sound quality, I consider the purchase of an Edirol UA-25EX. This model raises some questions similar to the Intensity though, since practically all USB soundcards in this price range only come with XLR -not rca or 1/8" jack- inputs, which implies the requirement of an additional L/R female rca-> male XLR plugs in the wiring. Therefore I wonder if it wouldn't be better to just buy a (secondary) cheaper sound card like a PCI Soundblaster (for instance the X-Fi Xtreme Audio?) specifically for video (and cassette tape) captures. Not that these come with a direct RCA input either of course, but at least high quality cables for rca -> linejack are more widely available.

PNG samples in attached RAR files.


Attached Files
File Type: rar interview (1t-tbc 300%).rar (757.2 KB, 24 downloads)
File Type: rar interview (ATI raw 300%).rar (717.6 KB, 13 downloads)

Last edited by kpmedia; 12-31-2010 at 12:59 PM. Reason: add RAR files to post.
Reply With Quote
Someday, 12:01 PM
admin's Avatar
Ads / Sponsors
 
Join Date: ∞
Posts: 42
Thanks: ∞
Thanked 42 Times in 42 Posts
  #2  
12-30-2010, 10:47 PM
admin's Avatar
admin admin is offline
Site Staff | Web Development
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,368
Thanked 581 Times in 435 Posts
Go ahead and attach JPEG "preview version" inline to posts, and then you can always attach the "unaltered" PNG images inside of RAR or ZIP files. I'm hoping to fix that PNG issue in late January or February after the other queue of site admin duties are done. It's likely been that way since 2008, but I only noticed it a couple of months ago.

Will get back to your real questions tomorrow.

- Did this site help you? Then upgrade to Premium Member and show your support!
- Also: Like Us on Facebook for special DVD/Blu-ray news and deals!
Reply With Quote
  #3  
12-31-2010, 06:39 AM
juhok juhok is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 379
Thanked 99 Times in 84 Posts
Ah okay then. Got them open. Next time don't scale and try to provide "raw" samples. Anyways, I see that there's the same kind of error I was experiencing. AKA "the grid". It comes and goes. In some scenes it was absent and sometimes it was very strong and immediatly evident to naked eye. Maybe it's the proc-amp/AGC pushing too much, causing distortion. Because their technical support ignored me completely I'll never know.

My TBC-100(0) does not have this. I've tested it quite a lot, from VHS and DVD running test patterns and material. To my "critical" eyes TBC-100(0) is "transparent". It may be worth noting that I've modded the TBC-1000 and stripped off 4-way distribution amplifier leaving only the TBC-100 board wired directly to outputs. Didn't change the picture to me eyes and I didn't do a lot of "before/after" tests. I have no experience with AVT-8710.

When it comes to Panasonic, I have experience with FS-88, FS-100, FS-200 and NV-HS1000. Most with FS-200. Those FS-series are the workhorses used in editing and professionally at the time. I marvel the mechanism of FS-200. My only problem with it is the post-processing, notably sharpening. With default settings it's a bit much for many old tapes. I'm not always happy even after setting it to softer level. It's hard to explain. In contrast I wouldnt say that JVC's softer and more "digital" look would represent "true" sharpness either. Many times JVC has lost some bit of details that are there with FS-200. But these tiny details rarely matter and are often lost when compressing to playback format like MPEG2. This is one thing I meant when I said they complement each other. FS-200 is often recommended for LP playback. I would argue that same qualities that make it a good LP player make it a good SP player aka mechanical stability and robustness. This has nothing to do with TBC, it's as stable when TBC is turned off. Actually it is often quite hard to see any difference whether TBC is enabled or not because picture is so stable to begin with.

edit: One bad thing about FS-200 that if chroma is really bad, it drops it completely leaving black & white picture. JVC doesn't do this and shows the horrible chroma. I've only seen a few tapes with this problem and I've transferred hundreds and hunreds of them.

Now, NV-HS1000 is quite a robust deck in itself. It's even bigger and heavier than FS-200. Sharpening is not so strong but otherwise it has most of the good qualities of FS-series. Sadly the mechanism doesn't seem to be as good. It takes longer to track/"sync" to the tape, when recording changes, etc. There are occasional "jumps" in the picture in bad tapes that wouldn't be there with FS-200. Take these comments with a grain of salt tho. I've only had this one NV-HS1000 and it's not calibrated yet. Due to nature of the problem I don't believe calibration will change much tho. In contrast I've used atleast three different FS-200's and they all performed about the same. I don't expect there's a lot of difference between NV-HS1000 and NV-HS900 and if you can get one for cheap I'd go for it. If you don't like it maybe I can buy it off

When it comes to cables there's a steep curve of dimishing returns. I've used a lot of cheapo cables along with more expensive ones and custom built ones (Mark Grant cables for example). I don't see any difference. Of course if the cable is really broken it will affect the picture. Gold plated contacts don't mean anything. Gold is good against corrosion if you work in humid conditions which I hope is not the case. Gold is not a very good conductor per se. It's just used for anti-corrosion properties and to make cables "look better". S-video splitter cable is nothing to be afraid of and many professional decks require split cables (they use BNC connectors instead of RCA but anyway).

About audio cables, same story again. Except audio is even less sensitive to errors compared to video. Don't let cables or connectors define what you buy. There're good cables of every possible connector combination to go around. It's not magic, they're just cables.

What do you mean by using soundcard for video captures? I would stronly recommend you use the internal audio in Intensity as it's clock is shared with the video which gives you perfect sync. There's almost always sync problems when using different clock for audio and video.

Whew this became quite a long post.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
12-31-2010, 09:02 AM
Kereellis Kereellis is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 57
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Thanks, those have been some very clear answers Now I'll just wait and see what experiences admin may have to share, and then I'm sure I'll have all the confidence I need to make some definite decisions.

Btw, if you like I can upload the unresized screens later, but I'm kind of tired/busy for the time being, and it's still 8 hours till it's 2011 and can have a rest without my family being disappointed in my lack of social engagement.

However, I might as well elaborate on my suspicion regarding audio recording now that I'm on here anyway.

Quote:
What do you mean by using soundcard for video captures? I would stronly recommend you use the internal audio in Intensity as it's clock is shared with the video which gives you perfect sync. There's almost always sync problems when using different clock for audio and video.
To be honest, I don't know for sure whether the break-out cable would be harmful to the sound quality compared to direct connection (for audio transfer, it's the cheapest cable that determines the audio quality). Surprisingly, for me sound quality has been the most troublesome aspect of getting correct captures, and most devices I've used have obstructed my workflow in that aspect. Even my Sharp (which I've tested as the vcr with the least noisy playback out of my three machines) recently started giving me a soft buzzing sound, which later disappeared just as suddenly when switching to a solid golden scart cable.

Apropos, note as well that this buzz was different in cause to that of the S7950 I described, since the S7950 produces it during playback only (so because of internal damage to the audio head possibly), while in the case of the Sharp it was constant and more likely caused by interference from the environment. Admittedly, for the Sharp I did have to turn the volume up quite a bit in order to detect the issue. Nevertheless I can't stand useless degradations to audio nor video like that, so I'm overly alert on where it could go wrong next.

Secondly, I plan to use two computers (well only one for now). My older PC carrying the ATI, which doesn't come with integrated audio capture circuits, will still be my main device for important tapes. This is where the Edirol / Soundblaster could come in use (the Edirol or a similar device would also serve other purposes as I described).

Moreover, since my captures are relatively short (20 minutes at most, 5 on average), desynchronization doesn't quickly become an issue, and since I can always correct things in Adobe with frame to frame editing later, optimal audio quality rather than optimal sync is what I opt for.

Last edited by Kereellis; 12-31-2010 at 09:17 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
12-31-2010, 10:38 AM
juhok juhok is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 379
Thanked 99 Times in 84 Posts
Quick reply before new year If the cable isn't broken (very badly made counts as broken - these are exception not rule) then it does not cause the phenoma you describe. It could be grounding issue. I'd have to know what's your tool/connection chain exactly including the grounding of different peripherals. If you don't like breakout cables, you can order/make custom cables to fit your needs that don't need breaking out.

Your audio heads might be dirty. I clean mine every few dozen tapes and there's always some dirt more or less. I seriously doubt they're broken or worn, it takes hell-of-a-lot to wear them out. Your deck gives in otherwise before that. Other possibility is that your deck is misaligned, or your tape has been recorded with misaligned deck. This is a bit difficult to diagnose straight away.

If you're doing frame by frame editing and correction then IMHO the small clitches between different models don't matter very much. They can be corrected in post. It matters more when you have hundreds of hours of footage every month and only 24 hours a day Same goes for the audio. If one deck gives good audio and other gives good video, capture them seperately and combine the best parths in post later.

I doubt that Creative x-fi will be much improvenment over Intensity quality wise (not to imply there is anything wrong with the quality). VHS linear audio is the limiting factor by far. It's self deluding(in general - no aggression intended) to think that some studio grade card that can capture dynamic range of a jet plane would help with bad VHS soundtrack. I'm assuming you're talking linear audio here and not Hi-fi audio? with hi-fi it's a bit different story. If you're worried about quality of the sound capture device I'd suggest getting some used studio/recording card over X-fi anyday, like M-audio or EMU-series from creative among others. They go pretty cheap. (If by some chance newer generations of creative gaming cards are very very good in terms of recording, I will take some of previous back. So far I've havent seen evidence of this).

edit: I many times forget not all people do this for profession and have a lot of money to spend to VHS. If you need X-fi in general for something else than only capturing, it could very well be a good choice.

Happy new year to all. Be back in 2011.

Last edited by juhok; 12-31-2010 at 10:50 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
01-01-2011, 11:21 AM
Kereellis Kereellis is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 57
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Well happy new year to you too, guys. I was just able to purchase that a HR-S9600EU and NV-HS900 for a total of 220 euros, so if they don't disappoint when I get them, 2011 could be said to have started out decently for me

However, I'm having trouble tracking down a TBC-100(0), other than the new 250/360 pound ones on amazon, so I was wondering if perhaps you guys know of anyone willing to sell a proper functioning second-hand Datavideo? If it comes down to it, I just like the portable version a bit better for the flexibility it provides than the PCI-slot (albeit not 100 pound much better).
Reply With Quote
  #7  
01-01-2011, 03:36 PM
Kereellis Kereellis is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 57
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Oh and, I'd be very eager to find out how to make use of the misleadingly advertized S-video to composite function of the Intensity Pro if this female S-vid to dual rca adapter recommended by Blackmagic is apparently non-existent:

http://www.thedigilabs.com/users/276...connectors.jpg

I did find this though:
http://www.jr.com/qvs/pe/QVS_CSV2RCA_hy_10/

Which sounds like the same concept to me, and yet the shop stresses that the displayed picture on the composite end will be in black and white. Same effect will happen with Scart plugs then I suppose. Perhaps I should just give up on Blackmagic and write it off as a useless company that makes promises rather than useable products.. Too bad my budget is too tight for the MXO2 mini currently though..
Reply With Quote
  #8  
01-01-2011, 03:59 PM
juhok juhok is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 379
Thanked 99 Times in 84 Posts
From the cable manufacturer's website:
Quote:
Converts any S-Video port into two RCA video port. It allows you to connect any camcorder, VHS VCR, DVD, satellite receiver, computer, switches to equipments with separate Y & C inputs. This premium 24AWG adaptor cable provides low-loss for high performance connections and has gold plated connectors and double shielding to protect against radio frequency and electromagnetic interference.
The shop who says it's black and white only doesn't know what they're selling. It's only b&w if you connect luma component only (aka connect it to normal composite input). It's Y/C-separated color picture if you're connecting to device which has that kind of inputs - like Intensity. (disclaimer: based on the facts on QVS / Blackmagic websites - I take no responsibility if they got their info wrong).

Calling BM useless company because of this is silly. They're mostly professional oriented and maybe assume too much that clients know their stuff (even with those new cheap consumer oriented products). This is what I meant when I said most problems I see people have with Intensity are user errors.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
01-01-2011, 04:17 PM
lordsmurf's Avatar
lordsmurf lordsmurf is offline
Site Staff | Video
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 8,207
Thanked 1,350 Times in 1,192 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by juhok View Post
most problems I see people have with Intensity are user errors.
That's always been the case with Matrox and ATI gear, too.

When I first wrote those ATI All In Wonder capture guides in 2002, complaints that the card "couldn't capture high quality" went to virtually zero. The first month the guides were live, the traffic crashed the server. The problem here sounds to be one of lack of information, more than anything else -- similar to Matrox and ATI. I fixed the "ATI problem" (so much so, in fact, that ATI used to direct customers to this very site!); maybe I should fix the "BM problem" too? There's just not much "friendly" information out there, for people who need the "for dummy" style instructions for the higher-quality capture cards. ATI had an expectation that you'd know what to do, because it was all there to be found in the settings and options. Install issues were often hardware conflicts, generally from cheap AMD/VIA hardware. No doubt Blackmagic expects the same from its customers -- which maybe isn't the wisest move on their part, seeing how popular the devices have become to non-pros.

Remember this: Most user reviews are left by nitwits. So you'll end up disregarding most negative information you see, as written from comments on sites where people buy the gear.

Quote:
The shop who says it's black and white only doesn't know what they're selling.
This tends to be a bigger issue in retail stores that you can walk into, but it's still seen online. This is a good example of that.

- Did my advice help you? Then become a Premium Member and support this site.
- Find television shows, cartoons, DVDs and Blu-ray releases at the TVPast forums.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
01-01-2011, 04:45 PM
Kereellis Kereellis is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 57
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
I don't call them useless just because of that cable, I do so because their advertising made feel treated me like this:

- wonderful product with s-video connectivity!
- whops, we mean if you buy this simple adapter
- which is the most obscure, unobtainable product ever
- so just have fun searching of an alternative for hours (as far as it exists because who ever would want to connect s-video out to component in?)

Admittedly, I don't know of their professional line of products. Nevertheless, I think that if they had been a bit more thoughtful and a little less useless about their consumer products, they'd have connected an S-video plug to their break-out cable in the first place. Heck, I'd have had a working device in the Shuttle right now instead of having to revert to more wires dangling behind my pc. Instead they happily continue to promote their usb3 device as so advanced it won't work on anything but the odd few usb3 mobos that were out when the product was being developed. Most likely not for ages to come. And their PCI-E card they claim to require an adapter noone in the world has ever seen.

Anyway, if that wire works fine according to the manufacturer, I'm more comfortable about ordering one. If they ship them from some place to here that is.

Last edited by Kereellis; 01-01-2011 at 05:15 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
01-01-2011, 06:33 PM
juhok juhok is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 379
Thanked 99 Times in 84 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kereellis View Post
- which is the most obscure, unobtainable product ever
If this would really be the case I'd start selling such cables immediatly.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
01-01-2011, 08:21 PM
jmac698 jmac698 is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 387
Thanked 69 Times in 52 Posts
Just a note about what Juhok said about cables; I've tested audio cables scientifically and there is no difference between them at all, from $1 to $20. I did this by using a good soundcard and Rightmark Audio Analyzer. I tested noise, distortion, and frequency response. The only difference I could find was when the cable was lying in a coil. This forms an inductor and slightly affects the signal.
So don't wrap your loose wires in a coil please!
One more thing, I didn't test very long lengths which could make a difference. Also, shielding can make a difference if there is something to shield against, however even when I lay the cables against my power line I could detect no hum. Perhaps if I coiled the cable around a power line, it would be like a transformer and pick up some hum.
I want to test next with video cables. These should be a bit more sensitive.
Corrosion, dirt, and cable wear still matter. The cheap cables eventually break apart and become intermittant after use, but at $1 I just get another
Reply With Quote
  #13  
01-01-2011, 08:32 PM
admin's Avatar
admin admin is offline
Site Staff | Web Development
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,368
Thanked 581 Times in 435 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmac698 View Post
I've tested audio cables scientifically and there is no difference between them at all, from $1 to $20.
I don't know that price point makes much difference -- good is good, bad is bad -- but there is definitely a difference in quality. I could list out many examples of this, but I'll simply go with the most recent one:

Maybe 15 years ago I bought a stereo mini cable from Radio Shack -- a nice one, not cheap -- and it worked great for probably 10 years. Most of the time, it was hooked into a very expensive turn table, to convert LPs with a professional audio card. In more recent years, the ISA card was retired, the turn table replaced, but I still have the wire. About 3 days ago, I pulled out the wire from storage -- which was NOT kinked or coiled in a ways that would ruined it -- and plugged it into a fairly nice Vox audio cassette player. I wanted to convert some recently-discovered family tapes to digital format. All I got was noise and crackles. I replaced it with an extra green-tipped stereo mini that came with my latest computer, and it worked perfectly. The old high-grade Radio Shack cable is in a landfill now. I don't have time for screwy cables.

This has happened with composite, component, VGA, HDMI, DVI, coaxial, USB, Firewire, and s-video. Several times a year, I throw out cables. Sometimes the cable is new, having come with some device, and it's already crap. And it's not always a cheap cable -- some professional gear comes with really nice cables.

Several weeks ago, I wanted to turn an extra computer into a temporary HTPC, connected to the office preview TV, on the unused input. But my 10-foot composite cable must've gone bad recently -- not sure how, as it lays straight, uncoiled, behind a shelf unit. The yellow composite wire only passes snow now. I'm now using the red audio RCA cable (it's a tri-cable) to pass the signal (preview only, not recording or normal viewing). The shielding on the audio cable is terrible, so I get herringbone, but at least I get a signal. I'm listening more than watching anyway.

There are bad cables. This is proven to me over and over again, every year. So watch out!

- Did this site help you? Then upgrade to Premium Member and show your support!
- Also: Like Us on Facebook for special DVD/Blu-ray news and deals!
Reply With Quote
  #14  
01-01-2011, 08:57 PM
juhok juhok is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 379
Thanked 99 Times in 84 Posts
Indeed cable quality (and it means other things than gold plated contacts) come to play more when it's very long. I didn't mention this because people usually don't have 10+meter wires in capture setups.

jmac698: Be very carefull when coiling around power lines, you might pick more than just hum.
Reply With Quote
The following users thank juhok for this useful post: admin (01-02-2011)
  #15  
01-01-2011, 10:04 PM
jmac698 jmac698 is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 387
Thanked 69 Times in 52 Posts
People that talk about cable quality are sometimes referring to their application in connecting ceiling mounted projectors, which require very long runs of cable.
Theoretically speaking, this is how the construction of the cable would affect signal (note: as far as I understand it, feel free to chime in).
A single conductor (per signal) won't last as long or be as flexible as multiconductor, but has less loss. The loss here would refer to a loss of brightness.
Loss is affected by wire diameter, the thicker the less loss. Also copper is a better conductor than gold, but not as good as silver.
At high frequencies, something called the skin effect means that the signal travels on the very outside of the wire. At 10MHz, the skin depth in copper is 20uM. So a thin silver plating would reduce loss.
The next effect is the insulator. The insulator has a dialectric constant which contributes to loss. A good insulator is low density PTFE, a type of plastic.
Air/vacuum is the best for this, for that reason expanded plastic is used, which has been blown with tiny air bubbles, in other words foamed.
Next comes shielding. This can be foil or a woven braid of fine wire. A few layers of shield is better. It also affects loss to some degree.
Next is the jacket. You want it to be moisture proof, resistant to UV, not create hazardous smoke when burned, insulate against temperture changes, be flexible, etc.
Now about how much difference this all makes; not too much. A 50 foot run of cable has a loss of less than an ohm, this is very tiny. These issues will make sense in connecting coax around a home or running along a neighbourhood, but not in home theatre setups.
Copper oxide (rusted, corroded copper) comes from oxygen reacting with copper. It is black and doesn't conduct well. You can fix this by soaking in vinegar.
The tiny amount of gold plating doesn't introduce much resistance to a connector, even though gold doesn't conduct as well as copper.
Until I test it myself, I won't make any conclusions on how a new video cable affects signal.
For me, I'm quite happy to buy a bag of cheap cables and throw them away as they wear out; but I also have some better constructed cables I use as well.
Neat trivia: very high currents leave little pits in copper, so high power lines wear out just from electricy!
Reply With Quote
The following users thank jmac698 for this useful post: admin (01-02-2011)
  #16  
01-01-2011, 11:27 PM
lordsmurf's Avatar
lordsmurf lordsmurf is offline
Site Staff | Video
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 8,207
Thanked 1,350 Times in 1,192 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kereellis View Post
I do so because their advertising made feel treated me like this:
- wonderful product with s-video connectivity!
- whops, we mean if you buy this simple adapter
- which is the most obscure, unobtainable product ever
- so just have fun searching of an alternative for hours (as far as it exists because who ever would want to connect s-video out to component in?)
Hahaha...

That reminds me of Canopus ADVC:
- "No software required"
- except if you want to actually capture video
- and only if you're using Windows XP and higher, or Mac OS X (but only certain versions) -- Linux users are left out

Or:
- "Includes line time base corrector"
- that doesn't really do anything, so your input may be garbled
- so you'll still want to buy a good VCR with TBC, and external TBC

Or:
- "Powerful filters to improve quality"
- that are so powerful you generally have to turn them off, or lose quality
- so buy our even more expensive Edius editing program!

You have to love marketing BS. Or not.

- Did my advice help you? Then become a Premium Member and support this site.
- Find television shows, cartoons, DVDs and Blu-ray releases at the TVPast forums.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
01-02-2011, 12:15 AM
Kereellis Kereellis is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 57
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
I recognize some of those cable issues as I recently had to throw out a handy 3,5 meter tulip that I had used for tv playback suddenly causing a lot of herringbone one day to another. In any case, I prefer to use short cables and lessen the extent of theoretical signal loss/ ground loop, so if 'quality' mostly becomes an issue with long cables, I indeed should be safe buying cheaper ones. Mind that initially I was mostly expressing concerns about the effect of having to apply additional adapters/plugs though. After all, theoretically every extra element in the chain can be a source of issues and is prone to wearing out. What if that element were to one day turn out to be on the profigold breakout? Then I could be considered moderately screwed. I'm okay with the Edirol now though.

Also what I like about the Profigolds, is that they're thicker, the plugs tend to fit more firmly, and I think that's just what may be their edge over the Scart plug in this case. Scart connectors on the back of the vcr can get worn over time too, but when I connect the gold-plated one it feels like it fits right in place and isn't likely to sag.

Quote:
Except audio is even less sensitive to errors compared to video.
Not necessarily in my experience, but then again, this country is crammed with houses, cabling, signal masts and most likely tons of other environmental interferences. When it comes to excluding those, I can imagine better isolated cables are the way to go, whether it's audio or video.

Quote:
If this would really be the case I'd start selling such cables immediatly.
Sounds promising. Could you help me out with a Europe-based webshop link? Such a cable as I posted would do (although after all my pains I would for once in my life like to see female s-video to dual male rca with my own eyes as well ). Just trying to save on shipment costs here..

Apropos, since I've already settled on equipment, the biggest obstacle and budget threat remains the new tbc. I'd feel a bit more comfortable with the tbc-100(0), so please let me know about it if you guys know of anyone willing to part with theirs for $200 or less
Reply With Quote
  #18  
01-02-2011, 12:23 AM
admin's Avatar
admin admin is offline
Site Staff | Web Development
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,368
Thanked 581 Times in 435 Posts
In the past decade, two ATI "purple dongles" have crapped out on me. The first time, it was easy to replace, as ATI was still in production of the cards. The second one was a bit harder, as I had to rely on eBay alone. There have also been cases where inputs/outouts have gone bad on TV sets, DVD recorders, cameras and capture cards. That one always really sucks, because repair can be expensive -- if even possible (meaning a more-costly outright replacement when it's not). So your concerns are most valid.

I don't know that you'll run into a TBC-1000 for $200 these days. Back when the TBC-1000 was $300 (USD) new, sure. But now, and for the past few years, there's been a 50% increase in the price ($450 new), making a used one sell for about $300 -- the price it was new not that long ago (5-10 years). With the AVT-8710 being $215 or so, some TBC-1000 owners have sold for about $300, bought the AVT-8710, and pocketed the rest (or more likely reinvested on other gear or software).

But good luck anyway!! Hope you can find one.

- Did this site help you? Then upgrade to Premium Member and show your support!
- Also: Like Us on Facebook for special DVD/Blu-ray news and deals!
Reply With Quote
  #19  
01-02-2011, 06:41 AM
juhok juhok is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 379
Thanked 99 Times in 84 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kereellis View Post
Could you help me out with a Europe-based webshop link? Such a cable as I posted would do (although after all my pains I would for once in my life like to see female s-video to dual male rca with my own eyes as well ). Just trying to save on shipment costs here..
I don't know where you live but for example www.elfa.se product codes 42-204-80
and 42-204-45 together will provide what you seek. If you chase this theme = S-Video to Y/C BNC + BNC to RCA adapter, you will find many alternatives.

Groundloops have little to do with how good a shielding a cable has or it's length. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_...electricity%29

Adapters don't usually worsen the quality. Here based on my experience I would avoid the ones costing 10 cents and such.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
01-02-2011, 06:59 AM
juhok juhok is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 379
Thanked 99 Times in 84 Posts
Oh and the about the "firmness" of RCA connectors I agree. It's sometimes very hard to find a quality connector that is just the right firmness (I say connector and not a cable because I often make the cables myself). Never they've been too "loose", byt many times are too tight and taking the connector off requires excessive force. This doesn't correlate with price and has been only more of a problem when I have to change the connectors many times a day for different decks and whatnot. I've been planning to replace the connectors on my most used decks with professional BNC/XLR/etc connectors because RCA is just "crap" in the end in my use. I already did that with TBC-100(0).
Reply With Quote
Reply




Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
AIW 9000 to capture VHS...other PC hardware? GroverXpup Capture, Record, Transfer 4 10-19-2010 12:51 AM
Can my Panasonic DMR-ES10EB record Freeview channels from my Panasonic TX-L-32G20B TV Peter_T_Ross Videography: Cameras, TVs and Players 4 09-01-2010 05:20 AM
Problems with AVT-8710 VHS capture Tafflad Capture, Record, Transfer 4 02-13-2010 07:23 AM
Capture hardware for small VHS-DVD business ? thetoof Capture, Record, Transfer 21 10-22-2009 05:54 PM
AVT-8710 and JVC DR-MH30S Tom_n_Jonna Restore, Filter, Improve Quality 7 08-24-2005 12:37 PM

Thread Tools



 
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:37 PM