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  #1  
07-08-2015, 01:21 PM
hysteriah hysteriah is offline
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I'm looking for a PAL DVD recorder that can be used as a TBC pass-thru. I've read from some of the users here that Panasonic DMR-ES10/ES15's and Toshiba RD-X series from the early 2000's can be used. I'm now offered to buy an "Toshiba RD-XS24" but I have no idea if it can be used as a pass-thru? Anyone who knows?

Pioneer and LG recorders seems to be the most common brands around here where I live. Can any of them be used as TBC pass-thru. Anyone with any experience?
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  #2  
07-08-2015, 05:21 PM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
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Panasonic and Toshiba made PAL versions of their older U.S.A. DVD recorders. Philips has been mentioned as a possibility, but only specific models. Few DVD recorders can be used as pass thru. The Panasonics mentioned can be used as pass thru on Line 1 input only. Anything made after 2006 has such a weak TBC anyway, it's not worth the effort. No Pioneer machines can be used as pass-thru, at last report. You can try browsing this thread: http://forum.videohelp.com/threads/3...hat-do-you-use. A lot of test graphics are posted there. Also note this post in the same thread discussing Pioneer: http://forum.videohelp.com/threads/3...=1#post2143330 . LG and SONY are two brands that have never been recommended for pass-thru. One or two early JVC's were mentioned but didn't get passing marks (pun not intended).

Last edited by sanlyn; 07-08-2015 at 05:46 PM.
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  #3  
07-09-2015, 03:29 PM
hysteriah hysteriah is offline
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Thank you so much, Sanlyn. I've read every single post in the tread you're refering to now. It seems most people suggests using the Panasonic DMR-ES10/ES15 and the Toshiba RD-XS34 as a pass-thru. But none of them seems to get the "best reviews" from people who are using them? It seems like it's the Philips DVDR3475/3575/3576 that gets the greatest reccommendations, but I don't think there's made any PAL version of any of them?

Someone is also mentioning the Panasonic DMR-ES20/ES25 and the Toshiba D-KR2. There's even someone who suggests using a MiniDV camcorder that is known to have great Y/C comb filters and exceptionally strong TBC's. I actually have a Sony D8 camcorder (DCR-TRV120E) with a built in TBC, but it seems like the TBC is only activated when playing Video8/Hi8 tapes, not when using the external inputs :-( I can't see any sign of a TBC when I'm trying it and it doesn't make any difference when switching the TBC on and off in the menu :-(

I can't see anyone mentioning the "Toshiba RD-XS24" so I guess it's not useable as a pass-thru then :-(

Once again, thank you very much, Sanlyn! :-)
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  #4  
07-09-2015, 05:43 PM
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Goldwingfahrer Goldwingfahrer is offline
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Quote:
I actually have a Sony D8 camcorder (DCR-TRV120E) with a built in TBC, but it seems like the TBC is only activated when playing Video8/Hi8 tapes, not when using the external inputs
Yes, so it is also described, see Screen.

Here instead of the ES10 / 15 we place on DMR EH595 or DMR EH65.
Signal HDMI + suitable splinter---> Blackmagic studio 2 or Intensity shuttle USB3.

Excuse me, my mother tongue is a Swiss dialect and German.


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  #5  
07-09-2015, 11:00 PM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
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I was under the impression that Blackmagic was looked down upon for VHS capture. I also read (and see) where HDMI 100-ohm wire is rather noisy and blurry for VHS transmission. To each his own.

I've seen the two DMR-EH models listed elsewhere as OK for pass-thru. They are similar to the ES10/15 but have hard drives and (supposedly) more rugged build. They also cost 3x the price of their cousins. Toshiba's Rd-XS24 was plagued with improper black levels (the fault of its early engineers). The RD-XS34/35 were improved (both of mine are still recording SD off my old digital cable box) and output highly accurate color. The ES10-ES15 tbc is a bit stronger than the Toshiba, but either would be better than nothing.

Last edited by sanlyn; 07-09-2015 at 11:15 PM.
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  #6  
07-10-2015, 03:38 AM
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Quote:
I was under the impression that Blackmagic was looked down upon for VHS capture. I also read (and see) where HDMI 100-ohm wire is rather noisy and blurry for VHS transmission. To each his own.
We take cable from 75 ohms
Blurred, according to setter = Yes.

Problem is of the MSYUV Codec of Windows, change on the Helix helps here or in Lagarith or Huffyuv_MT.
In VDub, Options----> Preferences----> AVI, in the 3rd line hook = out... Saves
Importantly with the EH595 + EH65, NR. = Disabled, see Screen

Alternative here.... Canopus map NX for Y/C in.

Disadvantage with the ES10 / ES15 picture is changed two times... Issue only in 704 x 576 / 704 x 480.
With the EH65 + EH595 [topically on the cut place] it is 720 x 576 [Pal]


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  #7  
07-11-2015, 01:25 AM
hysteriah hysteriah is offline
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Great.
Now I have some more models to look for.
Thank you very much, both of you :-)
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  #8  
07-11-2015, 04:19 AM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldwingfahrer View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanlyn View Post
I was under the impression that Blackmagic was looked down upon for VHS capture. I also read (and see) where HDMI 100-ohm wire is rather noisy and blurry for VHS transmission.
We take cable from 75 ohms
Blurred, according to setter = Yes.
I must disagree. The characteristic working impedance of HDMI cable is 100 ohms, not 75. HDMI core wire and insulation are the same as the core wire used in Cat5 and Cat6 network data cable. The basic HDMI design was not devised by audio-visual engineers, but by computer data engineers.
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  #9  
07-11-2015, 06:06 AM
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50 ohms I had earlier in Audio.
But now only 75 OHM

but I'm still learning

What’s the Difference Between 50 Ohm and 75 Ohm Coaxial Cable?

http://cablesondemandblog.com/wordpr...coaxial-cable/

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  #10  
07-11-2015, 07:13 AM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
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The article in your link explains the uses of 50 ohm and 75 ohm cable.

50 ohm cable is thicker and heavier, used for high-powered signal requirements such as radio and video transmission circuits and broadcast/telephone relay amplifiers.

75 ohm cable has lower power requirements but wants more consistent reactance at certain frequencies, so is used as connections for audio/video players, CD players, cable boxes, TVs, and other home a/v equipment, as well as in many pro lab a/v recording and mastering applications.

Both cable types are coaxial designs, meaning that they are two-directional, often heavily shielded cables, and are usually made for long cable runs of 400 feet (75 ohm) or more (50 ohm) without performance degradation, depending on the size of the wire gauge. They are capable of both analog and digital transmission depending on the circuits they are connected to, and have effectively an unlimited bandwidth for their intended applications.
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  #11  
07-12-2015, 05:56 PM
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Most people left stupid reviews for DVD recorders, as few ever understood the technology. That's the main reason that it didn't really even last a decade. It was just a stop-gap tech between VHS and DVRs.

I will not recommend anything outside of the known-good Panasonic ES model range. I've never been 100% convinved that the Toshiba was as good, nor that other Panasonic models had it. In fact, the ES10 and ES15 are the only ones that get my recommendation, as other later ES models were mixed feedback (meaning that the model may have had sub-models with different configs).

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  #12  
07-12-2015, 06:02 PM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
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I agree. The Toshiba does have a weaker tbc, so misbehaving tapes shouldn't be used with it. Also, non-ES10/ES15's like the ES-20 are practically useless for pass thru, as has been my experience as well.
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  #13  
07-13-2015, 06:48 PM
hysteriah hysteriah is offline
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Okey. I trust your recommendations 100%, lordsmurf... so I guess I'll have to keep on looking for an ES10/ES15 then ;-)
Thank you very much, guys :-)
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  #14  
07-15-2015, 10:52 AM
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Here of course I have also tested several DMR ES10 + ES15.

If one goes out about Scart/Peritel with audio, there is now and again phase turner.
If one takes audio directly from setter, without interdevice like ES10 / 15 so one must delay the audioportion around precisely 121 ms.
Either after in the Postpro or with a Rane AD22x or a Datavideo AD100.

According to interdevice there can also be other times concerning audiopawning.
It is nice, one always has to act it never becomes dull


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  #15  
07-15-2015, 11:29 AM
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Correction.
receive just the announcement that with the ES15 no more phase inversion it seems.

Beitrag 6
http://forum.gleitz.info/showthread....alisierung-TBC


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  #16  
12-22-2016, 08:07 AM
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Just a little update. Recently I've tested a Sony RDR-HXD710 unit. Maybe I'm wrong, but in my humble opinion it's more reliable than my Panasonic DMR-EH585, even with jitter and flagging. This model lacks an HDMI port but won't compromise its performance. It has also NR (on/off switchable) and audio sync delay control on incoming signals, both in recording as in passthrough. I was pleasantly surprised.
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  #17  
12-22-2016, 08:38 AM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
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Some of the better DVD recorders do offer pass-thru ability, but their power levels vary widely. The ES10 and ES15 are still the winners, but a few other machines can be competitive. The Panasonic you mention has a very weak tbc, along with the ES20 and several others.
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  #18  
12-23-2016, 12:05 AM
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Sanlyn,

Can you do an example of a video that has tearing and rips, record that and than show the same video that uses the ES10 or ES15 to fix this. Or what it actually fixes.

Please use damaged video for the example.

Thanks,
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  #19  
12-23-2016, 05:36 AM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
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short sample:
AVT-8710 introducing flagging?

longer versions of same:
Frames on VHS capture are hopping?

Short samples include closeup of ES15 "wiggle" fix. Other samples are Toshiba R-D2 before I acquired a working ES10.

And this thread has been referenced for years: http://forum.videohelp.com/threads/3...hat-do-you-use

Last edited by sanlyn; 12-23-2016 at 05:54 AM.
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  #20  
12-23-2016, 09:14 AM
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I also noticed that Pana DMR-EH585 puts a lot of mosquito noise on the edge of the shapes, even turning the AV-in NR off in passthrough mode. Please have a look at the attached screenshot.

What's your experience with this recorder?

update:

Ok, problem solved. Just turned off the comb filter on my Pana.


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