Quantcast Best VHS and Umatic capture workflow with VirtualDub to FFV1? - digitalFAQ Forum
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  #1  
08-19-2015, 11:46 PM
JohnR2 JohnR2 is offline
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I have been asked to digitize Umatic, Betacam, VHS, Digibeta, etc tapes into FFV1 codec and MKV container.

All my PCs are Win 7.

My current flows are:

VHS/Betamax -> Canopus ADVC300 -> PC
Umatic -> DPS295 (via component & XLR) -> AJA Kona LHe with breakout box
Betacam/Digibeta (via SDI) -> AJA Kona LHe with breakout box

From the research (lots of reading on this and other sites) and testing that I've done so far, I've found the following:
FFV1 and MKV are open source and not generally used but the archive community is starting to embrace it
to provide a flow with minimum re-encoding I need to capture into the FFV1 codec and it seems that only VirtualDub with ffdshow can do this
the Canopus box does not work for FFV1 as it encodes the file into the DV codec
the AJA capture setup I have is not recognized by VirtualDub as one of the devices
from reading BM decklink cards seems to be recognized by VirtualDub (although I cannot confirm as I do not have one)

Possible future flow:
VHS/Betacam -> TBC? (maybe DPS295 or another TBC) -> BM decklink studio
Umatic -> DPS295 (via component & XLR) -> BM decklink studio
Betacam/Digibeta (via SDI) -> BM decklink studio

Comments and thoughts about my proposed workflow. It means that I will need to buy the decklink studio card.

Anyone else use VirtualDub to capture to FFV1?

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  #2  
08-20-2015, 03:48 AM
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Goldwingfahrer Goldwingfahrer is offline
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Quote:
VHS / Betamax -> Canopus ADVC300 -> PC
a ADVC300 I have, I do not need ... compressed in DV-AVI = No Thanks.

VHS + VHS-C + Betamax [Standard + Super Beta]--->via S-Video to the Pana EH65 DMR or DMR EH595 ----> HDMI out to HDMI Splitter ---> Blackmagic Studio 2 Map
HDMI in.
Capture Tool Edius or VirtualDub.

Kona LHe need an available PCI-E slot with 4X ----------- without IRQ conflicts.
A few pictures, tests, are down in the Annex.

Quote:
• the AJA capture setup I have is not recognized by VirtualDub as one of the devices
with VDub I have not tested, just with Edius and Adobe Premiere.

Quote:
Umatic -> DPS295 (via component & XLR) -> BM decklink studio
Betacam/Digibeta (via SDI) -> BM decklink studio
Umatic has a TBC?
If not then .... everything about a DMR EH65 or EH595.

SDI directly to Blackmagic Studio 2 Map [image]
XLR to the breakout cable.

Cleanest solution here:

Analog capture with Canopus Edius NX with [YUY2 / HQX / MPEG2 I frame]
or if required in Lagarith / Huffyuv .... Pana DMR EH models and as for digitally BM Studio 2 card.

Digital from setter = BM Studio 2.See screen.
Sorry, I can not speak English
------------------
addendum
What also works here ... HDMI + YUV ... by Blackmagic Intensity Shuttle USB3.
but only when the signal is clean = time constant signal


Attached Images
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File Type: jpg a1.jpg (114.8 KB, 11 downloads)
File Type: jpg b.jpg (48.0 KB, 12 downloads)
File Type: jpg c.jpg (51.0 KB, 13 downloads)
File Type: jpg Blackmagic_Studio_2.jpg (28.9 KB, 17 downloads)

Last edited by Goldwingfahrer; 08-20-2015 at 04:00 AM.
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  #3  
08-20-2015, 12:00 PM
JohnR2 JohnR2 is offline
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Thanks Goldwingfahrer.

In addition....the AJA capture card actually does work with the AJA Machina program. I also made sure that the AJA drivers and software were the latest. I spoke to AJA tech support and they could not help me regarding using VirtualDub to capture. Therefore, I'm now looking at BM Decklink Studio as I read that the Austrian Mediathek uses a BM decklink SDI card in their flow to capture tapes directly via VirtualDub into the FFV1 codec. I figure that the BM solution would replace both my AJA and Canopus hardware.

Before I spend time and money on the BM decklink studio I just want to make sure it works....anyone use such a set up or could recommend a solution?
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  #4  
08-20-2015, 05:41 PM
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Goldwingfahrer Goldwingfahrer is offline
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Quote:
I have been asked to digitize Umatic, Betacam, VHS, Digibeta, etc tapes into FFV1 codec and MKV container.
Hello ... ffdshow I use rarely and only for decode exotic streams.
Capturing directly in ffv1 but has no future.
If back what is crafted, it may be that in a year the old streams are no longer recognized.

Okay..ich had once made a test.

S-Video + Audio in front of Pana DMR EH595.
DMR EH595 out via HDMI / HDMI Splitter / Blackmagic Studio 2 Karte..HDMI in.

VDub 1.9.11

Here are a few screen images
and a short excerpt [VDub direct copy]

Quote:
replace both my AJA and Canopus hardware.
what Canopus hardware?
I'm a fan of Canopus [Grass Valley] before Edius 1.0 with DV Raptor / Canopus DV Storm and Rex MT + HD Storm Bay plus.

AJA Kona LHe I have 2 cards but only one box + all cables.
For testing, I'm going to try a Viewcast Osprey 240e.

SDI have only the BM Studio 2 and the AJA Kona LHe.

---almost forgot...
MKV Container actually future ... unfortunately he would still be too open in the broadcast programs such as Media Composer Grass Valley Edius or.
I also do not believe in Sony Vegas Pro 13 and not in Adobe CS6 with Premiere.

to MKV Container = with GDSMux from mkvtoolnix program.


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File Type: png 5.png (52.5 KB, 10 downloads)
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File Type: zip Testcapture_ffdshow.zip (89.47 MB, 7 downloads)
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  #5  
08-21-2015, 05:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnR2 View Post
I have been asked to digitize Umatic, Betacam, VHS, Digibeta, etc tapes into FFV1 codec and MKV container.
The person asking probably doesn't know what he's doing.

Why FFVI and not something more standard like Huffyuv? The problem with FFV1 is that you'll have to rely on something like ffshow, if not using specialized hardware with it's own software that already encodes to FFV1. And it may be a lossless format, but it's not really considered a capture format.

That Canopus ADVC-300 is actually worse than the "lower" 50/55 or 100/110 units. It adds processing noise to the video. But the entire DV workflow is vastly inferior to hardware that can capture lossless, thus making latter FFV1 workflows worth it.

Ajas are always nice cards. Some work with VirtualDub, but I forget which. Some Aja owners have discussed it on this forum in the past. It's mostly used to uncompressed (not even lossless) in Adobe Premiere or other NLEs.

Certain Blackmagic cards are not good, as they drop frames and do not report it. That leaves your video with motion flaws.

As Goldwing points out, FFV1 has no future. It's a brief fad like other lossless formats. Huffyuv is really the standard, and everything else is just temporary.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldwingfahrer View Post
DV Raptor / Canopus DV Storm and Rex MT + HD Storm Bay plus.
I used to want one of them. Or their MPEG hardware card.

Really glad I didn't go that route, as they were seemingly designed for Windows 2000, and even XP had some issues. The Matrox RT.X100 was superior to Canopus cards, but even that infatuation subsided, and I settled in on the ATI AIW cards.

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  #6  
08-21-2015, 06:38 AM
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Goldwingfahrer Goldwingfahrer is offline
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Quote:
As Goldwing points out, FFV1 has no future. It's a brief fad like other lossless formats.
es, is my personal opinion.
But I read 2.Paragraph under "Video archiving"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FFV1

then I am amazed
------------------
Today I have asked the question ffc1 or Huffyuv in my home Forum
http://forum.gleitz.info/showthread....mat-vorgesehen

am surprised

ffmpeg -i 3.Test.avi -acodec copy -vcodec ffv1 -level 3 -threads 8 -coder 1 -context 1 -g 1 -slices 24 -slicecrc 1 test.mkv
it works very fast
ooh..mein brain will soon be less...;-(

Quote:
Really glad I didn't go that route, as they were seemingly designed for Windows 2000, and even XP had some issues. The Matrox RT.X100 was superior to Canopus cards,
I have tested the Matrox with the Canopus DV Storm ..... has won the Canopus.
test is available from the INet, but only in German.

Advantage of the DV Storm ... I could order in uncompressed UYVY capturen.Perfekt.
In the old Canopus forum with over 5000 members, I was the only one who has it figured out.
First, many members have laughed ... but later no longer.

I knew not that you can by pass the signal through a Pana AG8700, also does not work on better AG7750.
Yes ..... my about 8 Pana AG models are only capable of playing tapes recorded earlier with the AG.
Sometimes I take on VHS or S-VHS tapes on .... for test strips.

I have approximately 2003 + 2005 ever bought a ADVC300.
result = defective
2008 3.ADVC300 ... but I have yet to test any time.
Ev.ist because the signal via YUV better than with S-Video.
But audio problems is the possibly have from 2008 still.
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  #7  
08-21-2015, 07:00 AM
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lordsmurf lordsmurf is offline
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My interest in the Canopus and Matrox cards, at the time, was for NLE integration and MPEG quality. That because less and less needed from 2000-2005, and by 2006 was forgotten entirely.

I do, however, still sometimes wonder what using one would have been like, all those years ago.

Not just for testing (which I did), but actual daily use (which I did not).

I still have the research from my "Matrox vs. Canopus" days, in a folder, in the file cabinet. DVstorm and the RT.X100 were my top two picks. Funny that I opted to buy neither of the $1000 cards, since the $300 ATI AIW was doing what I needed.

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  #8  
08-21-2015, 03:06 PM
jmac698 jmac698 is offline
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When using FFV1, use the settings AC, large context for best compression.

I tested 10 codecs myself, FFV1 had good compression and light on CPU, but UTVideo is also quite good. The speed of the codec is important for later editing, and UTVideo is widely supported now.

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.ph...78#post1463278
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  #9  
08-21-2015, 06:00 PM
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Goldwingfahrer Goldwingfahrer is offline
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Quote:
When using FFV1, use the settings AC, large context for best compression.
"AC"....Thank you

your contributions Doom9 forum I know

Difference ffv1 and Huffyuv_MT in Edius 6:08
Link to the streams in post 6 [in German Doom9 / Gleitz Forum]

Tomorrow I'm going to test the Canopus HQ and HQX and MagicYUV.
Hopefully wins the Canopus HQX


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  #10  
03-20-2018, 03:18 PM
Mejnour Mejnour is offline
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Crowdfunding for FFV1 support in VirtualDub fork
http://www.av-rd.com/projects/2017-virtualdub_ffv1.html
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  #11  
03-20-2018, 07:22 PM
hodgey hodgey is online now
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It's supported in the latest versions of VirtualDub2 (formerly known as VirtualDub filtermod).
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