Quantcast Inserted frames in VirtualDub after new PC build? - digitalFAQ Forum
  #1  
07-09-2018, 12:00 AM
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thestarswitcher thestarswitcher is offline
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So a while back, I made a discussion about how my captures were suffering from inserted frames. LordSmurf replied once, but that thread sort of died.. Meanwhile, I did take the one sensible approach to the situation, and that was ridding the laptop. This is what happens:

NEW RIG:
-AMD Ryzen 2000x
-650W Power supply
-Gigabyte GeForce GTX 1080 Overclocked 2GB GPU
-250GB SanDisk Ultra 3D Solid State Drive
-3TB SeaGate Barracuda
-16GB G.Skill Ripjaws RAM
-Windows 10 Home 64 Bit

ONBOARD EQUIPMENT:
-JVC SR-V10U
-Dazzle DVC100
-RCA to Line In
-AVT-8710 TBC

The experiments:
-Freshly built, I immediately downloaded VirtualDub 32 bit, I started a capture. Approx 15 minutes in, it got a single inserted frame.
-Ran it in compatibility mode, got to around 10 minutes before inserting a frame.
-Several more tests with the timing, no luck.
-Disconnected the TBC, VCR straight to VirtualDub, problem still persists, issue averages roughly 7 minutes in on multiple takes.
-Maybe the VCR isn't producing a clean signal- I plug in an old Nintendo GameCube straight to VirtualDub to see if if does anything, about average time, frame inserts.
-I pullout my old Hauppauge USB Live 2 device, the frames were being inserted in the hundreds, by the seconds. So that didn't work. Dazzle starts at either 5 or 6, and can't go above that. If it even reaches 7, I'm not satisfied. It's not the tape source, because of the GameCube action from earlier.
-I think somewhere in this mess, I captured in Compatibility mode (both XP SP2 and 7, they weren't being much help (unlike the laptop..somehow).
-I've switched over to using LordSmurf's VirtualDub, and all issues above present.

I'm running VirtualDub on the SSD, and even tried with the 3TB HDD, but that didn't help. I also should mention- I disabled/removed all the unnecessary Win10 pre-builtin apps and plugins via PowerShell.

The most bizzare thing, is that the laptop (which I thought was a dumb idea from the beginning), performed better than this monster of a machine. I've had nonstop help from DFAQ member JawsTDS, who recommended the exact parts to buy, and somehow with a 95% identical setup, it doesn't work still..? We ran benchmark tests and all, it's one beast we're dealing with.......and it can't capture perfect in VirtualDub.

So now I'm thinking, alright, inserted frames are there to retain audio sync. What if I captured completely no audio- that way, VirtualDub would have nothing to sync it with while capturing.
-I turn off audio capture and input, and capture audio separately in Audacity- inserted frame.
-I go to the timing to sync audio to video for audio pitch adjustment (because there wouldn't be any audio being captured, right?). I leave for 30 minutes, 13 inserted frames.

Somebody has to be able to guide me in the right direction, or give me 1:1 help. As a premium member, I'm not expecting immediate 24/7 service, but this problem with VD has only costed 3 computers and a laptop later, enough is enough, and I believe with the help of this site and the masters running it, we can put this problem to its end.

Thank you.
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  #2  
07-09-2018, 03:07 AM
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lordsmurf lordsmurf is offline
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Hmm...

Verify that you do not have "audio playback" enabled in VirtualDub while capturing.

s-video or composite?
Same cables as used in previous tests.
None of it should make a difference, but can, in theory.

Still trying to use Windows 8/10?
Is it offline, no wireless access, stripped of startup programs?
Windows, by default, is like a Jack Russell terrier on crack, and Facebook is the crack. It has serious ADHD, and Windows 8/10 reminds me of modern kids that can't sit still. That's fine if you use it for such online tasks, but it's hell for something like video. Video needs quiet, peace, to single-task.

Other than that ... again, hmmm. Pondering I must do. (I need to add a Yoda smiley. )

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  #3  
07-09-2018, 07:18 PM
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thestarswitcher thestarswitcher is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
Verify that you do not have "audio playback" enabled in VirtualDub while capturing.
I don't capture with playback on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
s-video or composite?
S-Video
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
Same cables as used in previous tests.
Same Cables as previous test
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
Still trying to use Windows 8/10?
Windows 10 Home. JawsTDS operates on Win10 and the issues are non-existent.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
Is it offline, no wireless access, stripped of startup programs?
Just unplugged the ethernet cable from the rig, inserted frame right at the 7 minute mark.

This situation is really bizarre, I'm hoping we can come to a solution. I've certainly never seen a problem like this before, across so many different computers used. Do you have any other suggestions? We can't give up just yet.
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07-09-2018, 08:25 PM
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thestarswitcher thestarswitcher is offline
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*EDIT*
I want the following added to my above post, forgot to mention it (sorry!)

I'm thinking about dualbooting my system to run either Windows XP Service Pack 2, 3, Windows 7, or Windows 8.1 .

Do any of you think this might solve the issue?
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  #5  
07-10-2018, 03:04 PM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
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Running XP or win7 would solve many W10 issues. Forget Win8 -- it's as bad as Win10.

Keep in mind that your 64-bit software installed in Win10 won't work in 32-bit XP, but it will in 64-bit Win7. For Avisynth and VirtualDub, however, stick with 32-bit in either OS. For restoration work there are too many popular and effective 32-bit filters that don't have 64-bit versions. Don't buy the myth that 32-bit filters work faster in 64-bit systems -- 99% of the time they don't, so you're not losing any "speed" with 32-bit versions. Processing speed with 32-bit versions has more to do with CPU speed/cores and system throughput than with 64-bit memory access.
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07-11-2018, 02:56 AM
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thestarswitcher thestarswitcher is offline
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Hi Sanlyn, thanks for replying.

I've bought a copy of Windows 7 Home Premium and installed it on this rig. I did several test captures, I get an inserted frame within the first 3 minutes, no matter what hard drive/solid state partition I save it to. I tested LordSmurf's VD and 64 bit versions on Windows 7 (High Performance mode), no luck. This is really starting to depress me, anybody have ideas or theories to this problem?
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07-11-2018, 07:31 AM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
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Some years ago I would have 1 or 2 dropped frames, bu
it during the firdt few seconds of capture -- never any minutes into the session. Usually I started capture and then started the player. Later5 I started the player first, then started capture, and incidents of a dropped/inserted frame or two stopped except for an occasional incident during the first few seconds.

I then turned off all timing options that depended on VirtualDub to insert frames, and inserted frames stopped. I made several test captures with those timing options turned off and started lookingn for dropped/inserted frames during the first 30 seconds, looking frame by frame in VirtualDub, Never foundn any, and still don't find them 12 years later.

The PC's had WinXP Svc Pack2 (later, Svc Pack 3, required for some Avisynth filters). Both XP's were cheap home builds with 2-core AMD 2.2-GHz CPU's, standard RAM, and an extra Western Digital 250GB IDE capture drive. The capture cards were ATI All In Wonder 7500 and 9600XT. Later I used an updated XP and a Win7 build with modern Intel CPU's and bigger Western Digital drives for HD editing and a Diamond VC500 USB capture card, with the same capture settings. Still no dropped/inserted frames and never an a/v sync problem. I'm sometimes using a Panasonic ES10 for pass-thru when playing tapes with non-tbc VCR's, and always the AVT-8710 with all players. I still don't get dropped or inserted frames even though I still look for them.

I post-process small video segments at a time, about 6 to 8 minutes of video, meaning that I replay captured segments many times during restoration, and I still don't see any timing or sync problems.

What I suggest is that you try the timing options discussed in this post in the capture guide: Capturing with VirtualDub [Settings Guide]. Those setti8ngs suggest that you don't use VirtualDub as a controller for some timing aspects of captures. If you still see dropped or inserted frames after viewing your capture for a few minutes, then it's a case of VirtualDub not having a good time with some element or other in your setup. Mismatches do occur for which no one has ever found a solution. What many people eventually do is use the free AmarecTV capture software. It lacks some of VirtualDub's controls but it doesn't seem to mind what other parts of your system are doing.
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07-12-2018, 01:41 PM
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I've gave up on trying to capture in VirtualDub, just my luck. I think the software itself isn't working in my computer (capture mode). What I AM doing however, at the suggestion of Sanlyn is AmaRecTV. I'm a bit confused as to how to get started however, I don't see any guide to capture VHS lossless online (and there's a lot of 'gaming' toggles in there). What should I do?
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07-12-2018, 08:03 PM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
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AmarecTV comes with instructions for a variety of tasks. There are also VHS capture and other guides for Amarecv all over the internet. Try google: https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...+with+AmaRecTV
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