Quantcast LD capture resolution and ATI 600 clones? - digitalFAQ Forum
  #1  
05-31-2019, 10:05 PM
mocarob mocarob is offline
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Hello, I've done some laserdisc capturing in the past with Vdub (huffy) & a Diamond VC500 & my HVR-950Q usb tuner. I've read many threads here and it looks like the ATI 600 Usb device is a strong choice for usb connectivity & Win 7. However, I'm looking at replacing my 950q with a dual tuner device. Can I kill 2 birds with one stone with the HVR-2250 PCI card? Dual OTA & composite capture using Vdub? There's one available locally. Anybody have experience with 950Q vs HVR-2250?

I've seen LS mention Tevion and Hauppauge clones of the ATI600. Is there a list here of those models?
I only have 2 more LD's to capture, Not sure I want to shell out a lot for a new device.

Resolution. I've moved away from capturing for DVD nowadays. Keeping it all digital. Do any of these devices/Vdub capture at 640x480? Should I even capture at this resolution instead of 720x480? These captures will ultimately be encoded as H264 MKV for my RPi type media center.
Thanks.
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  #2  
06-01-2019, 07:25 AM
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HVR-950Q has some variability. I don't think a lot of people would recommend it, and its a simple tuner. An LD usually does better with Component (not Composite) capture.

You do however seem to be looking at very low end inexpensive capture devices and headed in a lower res direction.. so it might be adequate for your needs. 640x480 merely does the masking for you, as opposed to 720x480.

The mention of "all digital" also makes me think your planning on de-interlacing.. which few people would recommend here.. to each their own however.

The ATI600 is a good TI Chipset device without many of the problems commonly associated with Win7 capture devices after AGC got out of hand. Its a very good choice, but there are better especially for LD. Tevion is a German or Eurozone brand I believe, though usually capture gear will work with NTSC or PAL/SECAM. I don't know that I've heard many are still available however.. probably rarer than the ATI600. The VC500 is not a favorite of everyone.. I think Sanlyn thinks its okay.. and he captures Uncompressed.. but that does not sound like the workflow your interested in doing.. so it might be overkill.

Again.. I tend to think your requirements as stated are fairly low.. so you'll be happy with many options.
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  #3  
06-01-2019, 08:24 AM
JPMedia JPMedia is offline
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Hey jwillis84. Can you elaborate on that component vs composite comment? LaserDisc video signals are stored on the Disc as composite video. What would be the advantage to capturing a composite signal via component capture?
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06-01-2019, 08:43 AM
hodgey hodgey is online now
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Capturing from component would presumably mean letting the player do the Y/C separation. The Laserdisc video signal is stored as composite on the disc (as opposed to video tape formats), so you need something that can do a good job at separating the brightness and colour.

I presume you would want something with a good 3D comb filter, not sure if either of those cards have that, at least not the VC500 or the ATI 600 clones. You may want to scour some laserdisc forums for suggestions.
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06-01-2019, 09:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mocarob View Post
Hello, I've done some laserdisc capturing in the past with Vdub (huffy) & a Diamond VC500 & my HVR-950Q usb tuner. I've read many threads here and it looks like the ATI 600 Usb device is a strong choice for usb connectivity & Win 7.
The 950Q is a really crappy card.
Not fond of VC500, various issues, reasons still unknown.

Quote:
However, I'm looking at replacing my 950q with a dual tuner device.
You're asking for trouble. Never a good idea to do more than 1 task at a time for capture card.

Quote:
I've seen LS mention Tevion and Hauppauge clones of the ATI600. Is there a list here of those models?
I purposely don't mention it because there's no easy tell. I don't want to be inundated by PMs and questions about it. Nor do I want people to get trollish online, ranting about how my advice led them astray (but in reality, they bought a non-clone). The same models of the card carry multiple chipsets, and you have to own the card before it can be verified. Also realize that the clones are more difficult to find that the ATI 600 itself. I'm usually very open about sharing my knowledge, but a few tidbits I keep to myself.

Note that I have some for sale in the marketplace, both clones and the ATI.

Quote:
Do any of these devices/Vdub capture at 640x480? Should I even capture at this resolution
No. 720x480 only with these cards.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jwillis84 View Post
HVR-950Q has some variability.
Multiples variations, and all are crap.

Quote:
An LD usually does better with Component (not Composite) capture.
No.

Quote:
You do however seem to be looking at very low end inexpensive capture devices
What? No.

Quote:
640x480 merely does the masking for you, as opposed to 720x480.
No. 640x480 is not masked 720x480.

Quote:
de-interlacing.. which few people would recommend here..
Correct, do not deinterlace unless required.

Quote:
to each their own however.
I hate phrases like this. The reader too often sees this, and assumes it's okay, merely preference. But it's not preference. Deinterlacing is butchering quality, and should only be done for specific needs. For example, for streaming online, for incorporating into a larger NLE project (mixed source documentary), or as a restoration method to handle specific issues.

Quote:
The ATI600 is a good TI Chipset device without many of the problems commonly associated with Win7 capture devices after AGC got out of hand. Its a very good choice, but there are better especially for LD. Tevion is a German or Eurozone brand I believe, though usually capture gear will work with NTSC or PAL/SECAM. I don't know that I've heard many are still available however.. probably rarer than the ATI600. The VC500 is not a favorite of everyone.. I think Sanlyn thinks its okay.. and he captures Uncompressed.. but that does not sound like the workflow your interested in doing.. so it might be overkill.
For LD, there's are some potential issues with ATI 600 USB, but that's mostly according to member metaleonid. I'm not sure I agree with his assessment. Both he and sanlyn have run into some odd 0/16 issues, but I've seen nothing of the sort. (Inversely, sanyln likes VC500, and I see issues. I firmly believe system-to-system issues are at play, so we're not actually disagreeing.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by JPMedia View Post
Hey jwillis84. Can you elaborate on that component vs composite comment? LaserDisc video signals are stored on the Disc as composite video. What would be the advantage to capturing a composite signal via component capture?
Yes, LD is composite, so component comment is odd to me as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hodgey View Post
Capturing from component would presumably mean letting the player do the Y/C separation. The Laserdisc video signal is stored as composite on the disc (as opposed to video tape formats), so you need something that can do a good job at separating the brightness and colour.
I presume you would want something with a good 3D comb filter, not sure if either of those cards have that, at least not the VC500 or the ATI 600 clones. You may want to scour some laserdisc forums for suggestions.
Better Y/C is running it through JVC S-VHS VCR first. That's the trick many have used in years past.

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  #6  
06-01-2019, 11:40 AM
JPMedia JPMedia is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
Better Y/C is running it through JVC S-VHS VCR first. That's the trick many have used in years past.
In other words a LaserDisc capture workflow would look like this:

[LaserDisc Player line out] ---composite video cable---> [JVC S-VHS VCR line in]
[JVC S-VHS VCR line out] ---S-Video cable---> [TBC line in (For Macrovision removal)]
[TBC line out] ---S-Video cable---> [Capture Card line in]

If I understand correctly the JVC S-VHS VCR being used as a passthrough Y/C Comb filter.
Is it really as simple as that? I recently acquired a LaserDisc player and have yet to attempt a capture.
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  #7  
06-01-2019, 12:00 PM
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That is my understanding.

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  #8  
06-01-2019, 12:44 PM
hodgey hodgey is online now
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Laserdiscs don't have macrovision, so you shouldn't need a TBC for macrovision removal. It seems people often use DVD recorders, video processors and even TBCs to handle Y/C separation though. The hardware section on the laserdisc database forums is like a treasure hunt to find the device with the best comb filter (which is also one reason some people eventually started working on RF capture). I have no idea what gear is best and how the SVHS VCR comb filters stack up. Laserdisc is an entirely different beast than VHS due to the composite nature of the format.
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  #9  
06-02-2019, 12:18 PM
mocarob mocarob is offline
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Is this a preferred device? Diamond TVWonder HD 600 PCI High-Definition PVR (TVW600PCI) https://www.solidsignal.com/pview.as...b5437cc83f2a2a
I might have access to one... If so, What type of connector is that for antenna?

The last time I captured from my Yamaha LD player the image was stable. No TBC device was used. However, The items I could possibly use are a pioneer dvd recorder dvr-520h. liteon dvd recorder. sony digital 8 camera. any of the 3 hauppauge pvr's i have or a pioneer,yamaha or onkyo AVR or a sony hifi beta machine.. I'm not sure if any of those would work - it's just what I have available..
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  #10  
06-02-2019, 01:17 PM
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The 600 USB and 600 PCI are nothing alike. Do not get the PCI.

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