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  #1  
06-17-2019, 03:59 PM
Master Tape Master Tape is offline
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I downloaded an ISO from this thread ATI All In Wonder Hacks, Drivers, Codecs and MMC

Loaded the ISO, and the ATI Catalyst software install screen, clicked Express Install (Recommended) and it seemed to be installing everything, but after the third installer finishes i get nothing.. no signs of programs in the start menu, no notifications saying successful install, no message, no nothing..

I installed .NET Framework 2.0 SP2, and still got the same result.

Whatever could be the reason as to why it's not installing?
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  #2  
06-18-2019, 01:54 AM
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I found this table (with a lot more columns) at an archived UK gamers review site.

It seems to summarize the version of windows ATI cards targeted, or that the cdroms that came with the cards targeted. Their installers would then be better tested against those versions of windows, and should install correctly and completely first try.

I had a problem with the AIW USB2.0 N model, and found that its cdrom installers would only correctly install on an older version of XP than SP2 (only correctly on XP-SP1), and it installed a windows update patch to enable USB2.0 before SP2 became available. (After) you allowed the cdrom to install all the ATI card drivers correctly, you could then install SP2.. but not before. Trying to install the cdrom drivers directly on SP2 the installer would only "partially" install.. you could dig them out and manually sort of install them, but they never worked right. In this case.. ATI had given an (older) version of the device drivers to Microsoft to include in XP-SP2 and that took (priority) over the driver on the cdrom.. but the driver on the cdrom was actually (newer).. so after installing SP2 you went to the driver details panel and pressed the [Rollback] button to roll-back to using the "newer" driver.. and everything worked excellently. Microsoft always placed a (priority) on out of box drivers included with windows, even if the manufacturer had something newer available. The idea was Microsoft had "superior" testing of drivers and only included the best... didn't work out that way most times.

I don't know how accurate the info in the gamers table is.. there has been some controversy over even published materials from ATI.. sometimes I think its what the (wished) were true, but later turned out otherwise.

windows versionGraphics CardmodelClockMemoryDirectXOpenGLPCIe
W98SEAIW 128base90 MHz128 bit6.01.2PCI
W98SEAIW 128 Propro line120 MHz128 bit6.01.2AGP 4x
W2000AIW 7200base166 MHz128 bit7.01.3PCI
XPAIW VEvalue edition260 MHz128 bit8.11.3PCI
XPAIW 7500base260 MHz128 bit8.11.3PCI
XPAIW 8500base230 MHz128 bit8.11.4AGP 8x
XPAIW 8500DVdigital version230 MHz128 bit8.11.4AGP 8x
XP-SP1AIW 9000 Propro line275 MHz128 bit8.11.4AGP 8x
XP-SP1AIW 9200base250 MHz128 bit8.11.4AGP8x
XP-SP1AIW 9200 LElimited edition250 MHz64 bit8.11.4AGP 8x
XP-SP2AIW 9500base277 MHz128 bit9.02.0AGP 8x
XP-SP2AIW 9600base324 MHz128 bit9.02.0AGP 8x
XP-SP2AIW 9600 Propro line400 MHz128 bit9.02.0AGP 8x
XP-SP2AIW 9600 XTxtreme edition527 MHz128 bit9.02.0AGP 8x
XP-SP2AIW 9700 Propro line325 MHz256 bit9.02.0AGP 8x
XP-SP2AIW 9800 Propro line378 MHz256 bit9.02.0AGP 8x
XP-SP2AIW 9800 SEstandard edition378 MHz128 bit9.02.0AGP 8x
XP-SP2AIW X600base400 MHz128 bit9.02.01.1
XP-SP2AIW X800base500 MHz128 bit9.0b2.0AGP 8x
XP-SP2AIW X800 VEvalue edition425 MHz128 bit9.0b2.0AGP 8x
XP-SP2AIW X800 XLxpress line400 MHz256 bit9.0b2.01.1
XP-SP2AIW X800 GTglobal terresterial, EU400 MHz128 bit9.0b2.01.1
XP-SP2AIW X800 XTxtreme edition500 MHz256bit9.0b2.0AGP 8x
XP-SP3AIW 2006 Editionxpress line400 MHz128 bit9.0c2.01.1
XP-SP3AIW 2006 Edition AGPxtreme edition324 MHz128bit9.0c2.0AGP 8x
XP-SP3AIW X1800 XLxpress line500 MHz256 bit9.0c2.01.1
XP-SP3AIW X1900 XLxpress line500 MHz256 bit9.0c2.01.1
VistaAIW HDhigh def722 MHz128 bit10.13.32
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  #3  
06-18-2019, 03:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwillis84 View Post
I don't know how accurate the info in the gamers table is.
Some of that is definitely NOT accurate.
The biggest issue is the PCI and PCIe information.
- The lowest 128 card had issues, don't try to use it for video capture.
- The 7000 series worked on ME/2000/XP. I should know, I did it.
- From our talks in the past year or so, I've come to realize the PCIe cards are using drivers that are sort of backwards compatible DX10>DX9 drivers. The PCIe cards that always given me grief, and the drivers are the problem. The hardware compression and onboard audio are terrible, the lack or proper dropped frames counter in MMC is a deal-breaker for MPEG capture, and 704 image offset is a nuisance.

Quote:
I had a problem with the AIW USB2.0 N model
Install issues are almost always system-based, hardware conflicts. My recent install of this card in my dev box results in reversed chroma. On 1st install, it was fine. After adding other capture card drivers to the system, it was reversed. Reinstalled, still reversed. It's a dev/test box, so I'll just wipe it soon, reinstall XP. I have Win7 and Win10 slated for install as well, on separate drives. The ability to wipe is a main reason for capturing to dedicated system, not just because it's offline dedicated to the capture task.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Master Tape View Post
I downloaded an ISO f
Which exact ISO?
I have others. I need to uploaded those.

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  #4  
06-18-2019, 08:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lordsmurf View Post
Which exact ISO?
I have others. I need to uploaded those.
The one titled 'ATI All-In-Wonder Setup (180-V01084-100).iso'

Another problem that might be related is i nearly always get this error message upon start up.



I only started getting it after i placed the ATI card in the AGP slot, but at the same time i also took the SATA cable out from the optical drive and into one of the hard drives (since the motherboard only has 2 slots) I've ordered an adaptor though which should be here any day now. So i'm not sure if it's one or the other that's causing this message to appear. I have to go into the BIOS menu, press ESC then boot from HDD to bypass the error to start up Windows, since pressing F1 as stated does nothing.

However after uninstalling SP2 as Jwillis suggested, restarted the computer and this popped up.



So looks like SP2 was blocking something along the way, but since this PC wont be connected to the internet i couldn't download the driver update, but then i assume it's the ATI anyway, so closed the box and launched the ISO and tried installing again, but to no success. It's still not fully installing.


Attached Images
File Type: jpg 20190619_021301.jpg (59.1 KB, 47 downloads)
File Type: jpg Windows.jpg (71.5 KB, 46 downloads)
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  #5  
06-18-2019, 10:56 PM
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I believe the "out of the ATI box" 9000 Pro, cdrom is labeled

200+DVD
180-G01445-200
Made in Canada, Copyright 2002

The driver is looking for these hardware signatures:

"ALL-IN-WONDER 9000" = ati2mtag_RV250, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_4966&SUBSYS_4F721002
"ALL-IN-WONDER 9000 - Secondary" = ati2mtag_RV250, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_496E&SUBSYS_4F731002

The ATI MMC version on the original disk is MMC8.1
The DirectX installer included on the disk is 9.0

Later and earlier versions of ATI MMC generally work, they are looking for DirectX interfaces to act as gofers to find capture devices. But the original software will be more aware and better matched for that specific card.

LordSmurf has "deep" and "thorough" experience in extracting the very best performance from these cards. He knows them inside and out far better than I do.

But as a baseline, the above information is what came with my ATI 9000 Pro.

BTW: The SM Bus controller is part of the chipset driver for the motherboard. If there is not a chipset driver for your motherboard that works with that version of XP it will remain unidentified. SM - Systems Management, is usually for temperature monitoring and fan control. BIOS can set the fan to a static speed, but an SM driver lets the operating system measure temperature and ramp the fan speed up and down as necessary.

Update: I found a cdrom labeled

100+DVD
180-V01084-100
Made in USA, Copyright 2004

The driver is looking for these hardware signatures:

"ALL-IN-WONDER 9000 SERIES" = ati2mtag_M9, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_4C66&SUBSYS_4F721002

The ATI MMC version on this disk is MMC8.8
The DirectX installer included on the disk is 9.0a

It "should" work, but appears to be the cdrom included with the ATI 9800 since the driver inf file mentions that model.

"DO" take note that the hardware identifier is "different" however.

PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_4966&SUBSYS_4F721002
(not)
PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_4C66&SUBSYS_4F721002

DEV_4966
(vs)
DEV_4C66

You could go into the Device Manager and right click any yellow safety cone icons and go to Properties > Details
Drop down to Hardware Ids and see what your cards hardware identifier is.

It may be that its hardware id matches a different cdrom image for the ATI 9000, or that this later version of the driver has a typo in the distribution cdrom hardware id since it was intended for the ATI 9800 card and the ATI 9000 may have been long off the market by release.. so no one bothered to catch the typo.

BTW: you can "force" a driver to be installed for a device manually by right clicking an unidentified hardware device and selecting "Let me choose" and pointing at the driver directory, then unchecking the list "compatible" drivers box.. this will (override) matching the hardware ids, and gets around manually editing the inf file to make it match your hardware id. Its not easy.. and I am not sure I would recommend it.. it can be a hard to recall procedure and reproduce later. But the benefit (might) be a newer driver (unlikely trustworthy if they had an uncaught typo in the installer file) and a newer version of MMC8.8 as opposed to MMC8.1 - but you can also mix and match MMC versions outside of the installer.. its just another hard to recall procedure. (My recommendation) would be to use the original boxed cdrom image and let the installer do all the work.

Last edited by jwillis84; 06-18-2019 at 11:51 PM.
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  #6  
06-19-2019, 04:22 AM
Master Tape Master Tape is offline
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Ah so it's the wrong ISO file, going by the copyright year 2004. The 9000 came out some time before that, 2002 i think. Wish i had the original CD ROM it came with, but i got the card itself fairly cheap on an auction.

I couldn't see any Details tab in the Device Manger properties to see the Hardware Ids.
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  #7  
06-19-2019, 09:54 AM
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jwillis84 jwillis84 is offline
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I am certain LordSmurf has a copy. He has vast archives of material.

But I can make an iso file image of the cdrom if needed and upload it.

The only thing about using the 2002 cdrom is I'd recommend using XP-SP1 before applying the SP2 service pack, and making sure you know the Device Driver version numbers both before applying the SP2 and after.. in case you have to hit the [Rollback] button to get back to the newer device driver. Like I did with the "ATI USB2.0 N".. it may not occur with your card.. but it may.
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  #8  
06-19-2019, 07:54 PM
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I found two ATI 9000 Pro cards, one was still sealed in its box with shrink wrap.

The shrink wrapped card cdrom was labeled:
180_G01445_100

The non-shrink wrapped card cdrom was labeled:
180_G01445_200

The contents of each cdrom appear identical as close as I can see. The Hardware ids in the .inf files also appear identical.

I do not know what the difference between the two are, but some of the directories on the 100 disk have a date stamp from 2/2003, those same directories on the 200 disk have some with date stamp from 6/2003.

My guess is there is a difference, but that it would be minor. I could do a Beyond compare of this discs or a binary compare.. but I don't have the time right now.

Instead I made disc images of each cdrom and uploaded them as rar attachments to this message.

You probably only need one of them. But your welcome to both.

The choice of which to use is up to you.

Based on the date stamps, XP or XP with SP1 installed are probably what was available at the time the installers were developed. And that is probably what they tested the installer with.

XP without SP1 is kind of hard to use, its got a few bugs.

Don't try installing any version of .NET before you try to run the ATI installer from the cdrom. Also don't try installing any version of DirectX 9.0 (I think) all of those that are required are on the cdrom and will be installed as needed. And they would be the versions that were tested with the ATI installer.

"Newer" is not better in this case, because "newer" means they had an opportunity to add features and take away features and that breaks the reliability of the testing performed on the ATI installer when it shipped.

Good luck


Attached Files
File Type: rar 180_G01445_200.part1.rar (99.00 MB, 18 downloads)
File Type: rar 180_G01445_200.part2.rar (99.00 MB, 23 downloads)
File Type: rar 180_G01445_200.part3.rar (99.00 MB, 15 downloads)
File Type: rar 180_G01445_200.part4.rar (50.76 MB, 12 downloads)
File Type: rar 180_G01445_100.part1.rar (99.00 MB, 3 downloads)
File Type: rar 180_G01445_100.part2.rar (99.00 MB, 3 downloads)
File Type: rar 180_G01445_100.part3.rar (99.00 MB, 3 downloads)
File Type: rar 180_G01445_100.part4.rar (50.76 MB, 3 downloads)

Last edited by jwillis84; 06-19-2019 at 08:04 PM.
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  #9  
06-20-2019, 02:51 AM
Master Tape Master Tape is offline
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Thanks for those files. Unfortunately when i run either, it spat up this error.



And yes, i have SP1 installed and .NET Framework uninstalled.


Attached Images
File Type: jpg Error.jpg (90.9 KB, 37 downloads)
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  #10  
06-20-2019, 10:29 AM
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The most common one cited as the problem is for %ALLUSERSPROFILE%\Desktop

Create the folder "Desktop" in c:\documents and settings\all users\

Then reboot and try to run the ATI installer again.

Refer to the attached file if that does not work, Page 2 - For Windows NT, 2000 and XP Users


Attached Files
File Type: pdf Unhandled Exception 0x80040707.pdf (163.9 KB, 3 downloads)

Last edited by jwillis84; 06-20-2019 at 11:12 AM.
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  #11  
06-20-2019, 05:34 PM
Master Tape Master Tape is offline
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There is already a folder called Desktop in that location.

Looked through the attached PDF, and checked through but all seems normal.

I think i'll try doing a clean install of Windows and re-installing everything again but i'll wait until the SATA adaptor arrives as don't currently have my optical drive hooked up as mentioned earlier.
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  #12  
06-20-2019, 08:12 PM
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I've a system I can quickly restore XPHSP0 and try an install with each.

I'll try it now and report back.
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  #13  
06-20-2019, 10:42 PM
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XP Home no Service Pack installed

Using the 180-G01445-100

Install completed without error

I setup the TV application and it displays static, as expected

I can think of twelve permutations to try to "force" the error message you are seeing.

Could you help me out by selecting the case that matches yours the closest?

Home
1. XPHSP0 + 180-G01445-100 (tried succeeded without error)
2. XPHSP0 + 180-G01445-200
3. XPHSP1 + 180-G01445-100
4. XPHSP1 + 180-G01445-200
5. XPHSP2 + 180-G01445-100
6. XPHSP2 + 180-G01445-200


Professional
1. XPPSP0 + 180-G01445-100
2. XPPSP0 + 180-G01445-200
3. XPPSP1 + 180-G01445-100
4. XPPSP1 + 180-G01445-200
5. XPPSP2 + 180-G01445-100
6. XPPSP2 + 180-G01445-200

assuming (no XP 64 bit versions or Win2003 Server versions are involved, and no multilinguals or nationals are added)

any details would help

i'll try restoring then adding SP1, SP2 and keep stepping through the possibilities
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06-21-2019, 01:04 AM
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Home
1. XPHSP0 + 180-G01445-100 (tried succeeded without error)
2. XPHSP0 + 180-G01445-200
3. XPHSP1 + 180-G01445-100 (tried failed, aticim.bin event 1000)
3. XPHSP1 + 180-G01445-100 (changed cpu date to 2003, tried succeeded without error)
4. XPHSP1 + 180-G01445-200
5. XPHSP2 + 180-G01445-100
6. XPHSP2 + 180-G01445-200

have to stop now, will pickup tomorrow evening
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06-21-2019, 02:10 AM
Master Tape Master Tape is offline
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Well i've tried all these combinations but still getting the same error every time.

Professional
1. XPPSP0 + 180-G01445-100
2. XPPSP0 + 180-G01445-200
3. XPPSP1 + 180-G01445-100
4. XPPSP1 + 180-G01445-200
5. XPPSP2 + 180-G01445-100
6. XPPSP2 + 180-G01445-200

Are the ISO files both 651mb?
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06-21-2019, 04:17 AM
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180_G01445_100.ISO 666,870 KB
180_G01445_200.ISO 666,864 KB

You should try to set the Clock on the PC back to the year 2003.

Some of the certificates in the installers appear to have expired by 2019.

There are differences between XP Home and XP Professional.

XP Home was usually targeted as a Gamers platform and these cards tended to be bought for gaming.

XP Professional was not a superset of XP Home, trade offs were made to change the value equation. And defaults were different in several components.

I will switch to using XP Professional for testing.

It will take a little time, XP Professional is a "fussier" install than XP Home.
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06-21-2019, 06:00 AM
Master Tape Master Tape is offline
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Disregard that, just XP declaring incorrect file sizes, shows the correct size on Windows 10.

Tried going back to 2003, but that didn't seem to do anything either.

Hmm, perhaps it's a problem with Professional itself.
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06-21-2019, 09:27 AM
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will resume testing this evening

P could be the issue, we will see
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  #19  
06-22-2019, 02:06 AM
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Professional
1. XPPSP0 + 180-G01445-100 (tried succeeded without error)
2. XPPSP0 + 180-G01445-200
3. XPPSP1 + 180-G01445-100 (tried succeeded without error)
4. XPPSP1 + 180-G01445-200
5. XPPSP1a+ 180-G01445-100 (failed, tried again, succeeded distorted video window)
6. XPPSP1a+ 180-G01445-200
7. XPPSP2 + 180-G01445-100 (fails with ATI CIM conflict with USER32.dll)
8. XPPSP2 + 180-G01445-200

The simplest install is with XP Professional with No Service Pack applied. That glides to success each time.

The next simplest is XP Professional with the (genuine) Service Pack 1. That succeeds with no errors each time.

Microsoft released an update to the Service Pack 1 called Service Pack 1a and did a fair job of scrubbing downloads of the (genuine) and original Service Pack 1 from the internet.

It is a bit hard to find these days. Service Pack 1a "appears" almost the same size.. but is known as their second take on Service Pack 1 and they changed a lot of things. This shows up as instability and general modifications to the default settings for many applications.

I did not test with SP1a the previous night on XP Home, but would expect similar distorted and unpredictable install behavior.. sometimes it succeeds, sometimes it fails.. it seems something in the background is on a variable time loop after SP1a is applied. Once it does succeed, the video window is shrunk from Full size to a postage stamp. It can be readjusted.. but a guess is Microsoft changed the APIs in SP1a and the Installer from ATI was relying on "stable" APIs not to change in a revised SP1a.

I would very much recommend (not) using SP2 with this card.

And if SP2 has ever been on the system it cannot truly be removed, so start over with a fresh install of XP

Last edited by jwillis84; 06-22-2019 at 03:00 AM.
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06-22-2019, 09:39 PM
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I am quite surprised by these results!

Professional
1. XPPSP0 + 180-G01445-100 (success)
2. XPPSP0 + 180-G01445-200 (fail)
3. XPPSP1 + 180-G01445-100 (success)
4. XPPSP1 + 180-G01445-200 (fail)
5. XPPSP1a+ 180-G01445-100 (fail/success)
6. XPPSP1a+ 180-G01445-200 (fail)
7. XPPSP2 + 180-G01445-100 (fail)
8. XPPSP2 + 180-G01445-200 (success)

In other words

1. XPPSP0 + 180-G01445-100 (success)
2. XPPSP1 + 180-G01445-100 (success)
3. XPPSP1a+ 180-G01445-100 (fail)
4. XPPSP2 + 180-G01445-100 (fail)

5. XPPSP0 + 180-G01445-200 (fail)
6. XPPSP1 + 180-G01445-200 (fail)
7. XPPSP1a+ 180-G01445-200 (fail)
8. XPPSP2 + 180-G01445-200 (success)

180-G01445-100 works for XP SP1 and SP0
180-G01445-200 works for XP SP2

The last three digits "appear" to indicate the Service Pack they were tested with or intended to work with.

Checking after 180-G01445-200 was installed on XPP+SP2 reveals the ATI drivers from the ATI Installer were installed (and removed the Microsoft boxed drivers). It put back the older ATI drivers that work, simplifying the install if you already have SP2 installed.

I'll go back to testing with XP Home and see if this confirms the theory.
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