Quantcast VHS Capture (654x480) to 640x480? - digitalFAQ Forum
  #1  
03-27-2019, 10:44 AM
gloubu gloubu is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 11
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
My issue is I used the Roxio Easy VHS converter to transfer my VHS tapes to digital. Mpeg2 (654x480) is what QuickTime is telling me the format size is. I want to convert the file to an mp4 or mov file... My question is can I convert it to 640x480 without screwing up the ratio? Or do I need to start over and capture it in 640x480?

Thanks in advance!


Attached Images
File Type: png Screen Shot 2019-03-27 at 11.43.32 AM.png (34.9 KB, 8 downloads)
Reply With Quote
Someday, 12:01 PM
admin's Avatar
Ads / Sponsors
 
Join Date: ∞
Posts: 42
Thanks: ∞
Thanked 42 Times in 42 Posts
  #2  
03-27-2019, 02:51 PM
sanlyn sanlyn is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: N. Carolina and NY, USA
Posts: 3,396
Thanked 1,066 Times in 889 Posts
Roxio is garbage, for capture and for anything else. Period. You'll never see it recommended here for video work. You won't see MPEG or any other lossy or final-delivery format recommended for anything other than burn-and-play, never for repair, modification, or restoration. The medium that's specifically designed for edits and mods without quality loss is lossless media using loslsless copression such as huffYUV, Lagarith, or UT Video. The capture devices optimized for capture from analog sources are legacy AGP All in Wonder cards or today's USB dongles such as the ATI 600 or VC500 USB devices. Capture devices such as BlackMagic or others designed for digital source or for lossy DV conversion aren't recommended for analog sources except by users who don't know very much about video quality or who don't know enough to see a difference. Virtualdub or AmarecTV are used for lossless capture software. Avisynth and VirtualDub are recommended for cleanup, repair, other restorations, and prep for web posting. For timeline, titles, special effects, final encoding, etc., using lossless work files one can use any of several NLE editors from Adobe, Corel, Vegas, or even FCP.

Because lossy captures or captures made with unsuitable hardware or software are already damaged goods, it's very difficult to get effective advice about quality issues.


Tip: your image says your capture is lossy 720x480. You'll get more info about video clips if you use the free MediaInfoXp utility (works with all versions of windows). An added bonus with Mediainfo: you can copy its readout as plain text and paste it into a forum post without processing screen captures and other complications.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
03-27-2019, 03:19 PM
gloubu gloubu is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 11
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thank you for your knowledgeable reply. The Roxio is out, back to square one. I'm just looking for a capture method to convert my VHS tapes, basically as is, I won't be editing them. I heard bad things about the Blackmagic and I probably want to stay away from something like the Elgato Video Capture? I heard good things about the Canopus ADVC-110 for VHS...
Reply With Quote
  #4  
03-27-2019, 03:23 PM
lordsmurf's Avatar
lordsmurf lordsmurf is offline
Site Staff | Video
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 8,274
Thanked 1,370 Times in 1,205 Posts
- The ADVC DV converters lose 50%+ of color data, so that should also be out.
- Roxio is a rebadged Easycap (Easycrap)
- Blackmagic has well known issues with SD VHS, and even BM suggests their cards not be used for that purpose.

What OS do you have?
Can you build a dedicated computer just for capturing, based on WinXP or Win7.

- Did my advice help you? Then become a Premium Member and support this site.
- Find television shows, cartoons, DVDs and Blu-ray releases at the TVPast forums.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
03-28-2019, 09:08 AM
dpalomaki dpalomaki is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: VA
Posts: 786
Thanked 171 Times in 147 Posts
Do you plan to do any image corrections, filtering, restoration, or editing, or do yo just want to dump the VHS tapes to a format you can easily view now; e.g., dump to a DVD or MP4 files as is?

How much time, effort, and cash are you willing to invest in the process?

How many tapes to you have? Just VHS, or do you have Video8 and Hi8 in the mix?

Are they good, clean tapes, or stuff shot with home camcorder under marginal lighting conditions.

What gear and type of PCs do you already have (beyond the Roxio Easy VHS)

The answers to those questions can guide the way to a solution that fits your needs.

If a modest number of tapes it might be best to hire it out. (The providers of this site offer that service.)
Reply With Quote
  #6  
03-28-2019, 05:48 PM
gloubu gloubu is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 11
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by dpalomaki View Post
Do you plan to do any image corrections, filtering, restoration, or editing, or do yo just want to dump the VHS tapes to a format you can easily view now; e.g., dump to a DVD or MP4 files as is?

How much time, effort, and cash are you willing to invest in the process?

How many tapes to you have? Just VHS, or do you have Video8 and Hi8 in the mix?

Are they good, clean tapes, or stuff shot with home camcorder under marginal lighting conditions.

What gear and type of PCs do you already have (beyond the Roxio Easy VHS)

The answers to those questions can guide the way to a solution that fits your needs.

If a modest number of tapes it might be best to hire it out. (The providers of this site offer that service.)

The only editing I will do it to convert the files if needed.

I plan to just put them on DVD or have them as a MP4 for viewing.

I am 100% devoted to this undertaking, I'm want to do all the work and learn the best way to do the job.

I have over 100 tapes. They are clean tapes but they were shot on camcorders back in the day. I do have Video8 and Hi8 mixed in.

I work on Mac systems. I know this is not the popular option for video capture. I used the Roxio usb and software but I'm going to redo all that work because I've learned it was not done correctly from this site. So I'm starting from scratch. I need to figure out if I will buy a USB capture card or have a card in a PC?

I would be willing to build a PC system to do do the job correctly if that is the BEST way to go about this. I will need assistance in gathering information of what I would need in the system and what the best capture card I would need. Also if VirtualDub or AmaRecTV is the best way to go.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
03-28-2019, 06:20 PM
ELinder ELinder is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 121
Thanked 17 Times in 15 Posts
What kind of Mac are you using? Running Windows bootcamp may also be an option. I believe there's a number of people here doing that, myself included.

Erich
Reply With Quote
  #8  
03-28-2019, 06:29 PM
gloubu gloubu is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 11
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I have a few machines, one of them being an older Mac Pro Tower. I could prob use bootcamp. Never thought of that option.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
03-28-2019, 08:14 PM
gloubu gloubu is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 11
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ELinder View Post
What kind of Mac are you using? Running Windows bootcamp may also be an option. I believe there's a number of people here doing that, myself included.

Erich
So I'm going to try and use Bootcamp. Erich if I could pick your brain...
  • What version on Windows do you use?
  • What physical hardware do you use to capture VHS? (besides VCR's, like USB dongle or another device)
  • Do you use VirtualDub?

Thanks so much!
Reply With Quote
  #10  
03-28-2019, 08:40 PM
ELinder ELinder is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 121
Thanked 17 Times in 15 Posts
I have a 1 year old iMac Pro, so I have no choice but to use Windows 10. The most recommended version here to use is Windows XP, as each subsequent version made it harder to run the older programs and hardware of the VHS era. Windows 10 is most definitely useable, but every once in a while you have to jump thru extra hoops to get things installed and working. Since I can't use internal cards, I'm capturing with either a ATI 510-USB or a Blackmagic Shuttle Thunderbolt (which is also not recommended here by many). Under Win10 I capture with the ATI and Virtualdub. Under MacOS I use the BMD, but almost always capture in Windows since I'm also using AviSynth and its filters with VDub for the initial file processing before I move the files to the Mac side, where I do my final editing and color corrections in Davinci Resolve. If you're using a cheese grater Mac Pro you're probably gong to have many more hardware options than I do, as it's essentially a PC hardware-wise. The big thing is finding the right drivers, so you'll have to look more closely into which version of Windows you can use. I'd say use the oldest version you can, as long as it isn't connected to the internet. So in order of choice, WinXP SP2, WinXP SP3, Win7, Win10.

Erich
Reply With Quote
  #11  
03-28-2019, 09:01 PM
gloubu gloubu is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 11
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ELinder View Post
I have a 1 year old iMac Pro, so I have no choice but to use Windows 10. The most recommended version here to use is Windows XP, as each subsequent version made it harder to run the older programs and hardware of the VHS era. Windows 10 is most definitely useable, but every once in a while you have to jump thru extra hoops to get things installed and working. Since I can't use internal cards, I'm capturing with either a ATI 510-USB or a Blackmagic Shuttle Thunderbolt (which is also not recommended here by many). Under Win10 I capture with the ATI and Virtualdub. Under MacOS I use the BMD, but almost always capture in Windows since I'm also using AviSynth and its filters with VDub for the initial file processing before I move the files to the Mac side, where I do my final editing and color corrections in Davinci Resolve. If you're using a cheese grater Mac Pro you're probably gong to have many more hardware options than I do, as it's essentially a PC hardware-wise. The big thing is finding the right drivers, so you'll have to look more closely into which version of Windows you can use. I'd say use the oldest version you can, as long as it isn't connected to the internet. So in order of choice, WinXP SP2, WinXP SP3, Win7, Win10.

Erich

Thanks so much for all your knowledge! I will be looking for Windows XP now. Can you point me in the direction of this ATI 510-USB? I'm not seeing it on a simple google search...
Reply With Quote
  #12  
03-28-2019, 09:04 PM
ELinder ELinder is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 121
Thanked 17 Times in 15 Posts
Your best bet is to contact lordsmurf here on the forum for capture hardware options.

Erich
Reply With Quote
  #13  
03-28-2019, 09:52 PM
ELinder ELinder is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 121
Thanked 17 Times in 15 Posts
I forget to mention, if you're going to use WinXP, I'm pretty sure you'd need to be running Leopard or Snow Leopard to use bootcamp. You'll have to check your exact MacPro model, and as with running an old Windows system, running an old MacOS I wouldn't connect it to the internet. If you want to run only Windows on it you can without even installing the MacOS, but it's been so long since I did that I don't remember how I went about doing it. It was something to do with extracting the Windows drivers for the Mac hardware from the Apple bootcamp drivers download. All of this is why I just went with running Win10 on my iMacPro.

Erich
Reply With Quote
  #14  
03-28-2019, 10:41 PM
jwillis84's Avatar
jwillis84 jwillis84 is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: College Station, TX
Posts: 491
Thanked 88 Times in 72 Posts
If your going to be using a modern Mac for video capture. You better hurry. OSX is sealing an "...ahem.." Security Gap in the fall of 2019 to disable all in roads for user captured raw video.

Empia based video capture over USB used to be supported by a Video Capture plugin for QuickTime (the generic Mac equivalent of DirectX) but that is coming to an end in the Fall of 2019.

EchoFX made two products that supported Third Party hardware using that method VideoGlide for USB 2.0 and USB Vision for USB 1.1

Other than those paths there were lots of DV video importers, but that lost half the color and "really" conducted the digitizing off board of the Mac and on the dongle device (using over Firewire, sometimes USB) all that DV import did was "copy" the finished video that had been converted to a digital data stream from the device (called a dedicated Codec) over to a file on the Mac.

Elgato was a Third Party known for making eyeTV before it was sold a couple years ago to a Chinese company called Geniatech. Those devices ranged from the ATI TV Wonder USB 2.0 to multiple versions of the TerraTec capture devices. The ATI was lossless until it got to the Mac, but then the eyeTV software would software compress it into MPEG2.. you really couldn't get at the lossless stream for "any" TV Tuner software.

To my knowledge nothing on a Mac will capture "losslessly".. but I've heard rumors a webcam device potentially could be treated that way using the Windows Flip support with QuickTime on old Macs.. and you could use the Windows lossless codecs too.. but that is mostly myth and rumor. You might also get VLC to do it.. but generally its not stable.

The Mac was designed for pre-cooked compressed video import only. Even if you could sometimes copy a lossless file over to a Mac for video editing.. it was rare. They reduced bugs in the software in the early days by tightly controlling what a user was allowed to do.. so the software refused to do something, rather than potentially "crashing". People appreciated the "predictability".. your decisions were reduced to "only one-way to Dublin" no alternative paths. In fact the paths were "barricaded".

The "Security" fix this Fall is all about reducing potential failure paths. Macs don't let users wonder off the well traveled paths.

That's why its been a harden rule for along time "capture on a PC" then "edit on a Mac" if you must use a Mac.. or Bootcamp to capture, re-Boot to edit.

(I'm not saying its "impossible" mind you.. I'm still looking.. but if it is... it was a quirky rare event.)

There are a few (Mac compatible) Thunderbolt capture devices and there was at least one PCExpress device which would perform some unusual SD video to SDI or upscaling to HD and 4K devices.. but universally those were not designed with a TBC in mind, or if the chips supported TBC functions.. they chose to disable that feature to better support HD bandwidth and avoid fuzzing the HD capture..

Blackmagic mostly falls into this category and takes a lot of hits for quality and frame dropping of SD audio and video.

So yeah.. you can make an 'Elephant Dance' but its not a pretty sight in most cases.. and pretty darned expensive even today with legacy gear.

When OSX closes the "video loop hole" in 2019 the party will finally be over unless you run an old version of OSX.. and that may not even be an option much longer.. regardless of the real security implications.

Its a fascinating saga.. Mac's romantic affair with SD video.. but it has a tragic punchline.. I don't think there will be a happy ending to this one.

Last edited by jwillis84; 03-28-2019 at 11:38 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
03-28-2019, 10:47 PM
gloubu gloubu is offline
Free Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 11
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
So are you saying that if I use bootcamp to run Windows XP this issue is going to effect me in fall 2019? I'm not capturing in the Mac OS...
Reply With Quote
  #16  
03-28-2019, 11:08 PM
ELinder ELinder is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 121
Thanked 17 Times in 15 Posts
Jwillis84, I have no idea what you're talking about, where can I find more info about it?

Erich
Reply With Quote
  #17  
03-28-2019, 11:08 PM
jwillis84's Avatar
jwillis84 jwillis84 is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: College Station, TX
Posts: 491
Thanked 88 Times in 72 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by gloubu View Post
So are you saying that if I use bootcamp to run Windows XP this issue is going to effect me in fall 2019? I'm not capturing in the Mac OS...
No.

What you do in Bootcamp is up to Windows and you.. as long as OSX lets you boot into Bootcamp, and there are Windows drivers for the device you connect to your Mac. (but there's the potential problem.. if XP won't run on that hardware..)

Macs basically want you to use a magical dedicated device called a "Codec" to generate "files" and then import "files". That's the Mac-way.

Performing video capture from within the Mac OS was always a performance, hardware device support nightmare and the options were and are still very few. And they are becoming fewer on the PC side as well.

Dedicated capture boxes (Codecs) are becoming the norm on both platforms.. but the modern ones have left SD behind.. its a relic. Thats why you get the best capture for SD only on old hardware and old operating systems.. they were designed and optimized for that SD analog signal. Once its in digital form getting it across the 'digital divide' to your chosen operating system is much easier.

Apple is simply "removing" the last vestiges for hardware support for legacy capture devices. Windows has been doing the same "hollowing out" support in their APIs for video capture... going all digital, all the time.. assuming all video originated as digital and has no need for this ancient thing called "video capture".

The old "capture magic" is going away.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
03-28-2019, 11:24 PM
jwillis84's Avatar
jwillis84 jwillis84 is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: College Station, TX
Posts: 491
Thanked 88 Times in 72 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ELinder View Post
Jwillis84, I have no idea what you're talking about, where can I find more info about it?

Erich
If your referring to the 2019 event. Its the deprecation of 32 bit support for older drivers and applications.

EchoFX has a notice referring to the turn down of their software product that explains pretty clearly:

"IMPORTANT NOTICE:

macOS 10.15+ users will not be able to use VideoGlide.

As of February, 2018, the VideoGlide software is officially deprecated. It will not work in any macOS version higher than 10.14.

In the fall of 2019, Apple will be removing 32-bit application support from their upcoming macOS 10.15 system software.

VideoGlide is built upon Apple's QuickTime architecture, which is itself 32-bit only.

There is simply no way to make VideoGlide work in macOS 10.15 without a complete ground up rewrite.

VideoGlide will only function in macOS 10.14 and earlier.
USBVision will only function in Mac OS 10.8 and earlier
"

This will also effect older versions of Finalcut Pro and any other 32 bit version of software used for editing.. but I didn't want to emphasize the collateral damage to the broader picture.

Note: This is not a PPC vs Intel, Rosetta thing.. or a Universal binary thing.. it is [the end] for a lot of time honored Mac software in the name of progress.

And whether you will be able to start XP in Bootcamp is an open question. Macs have been EFI for a long time, but Apple could decide not to support it anymore.. or the processors might no long support the legacy features that XP needs to run.. it will simply be untested. Certainly the USB 2.0 ports are getting fairly rare and the device drivers for USB 3.1 ports have to come from Apple. So risks that they won't provide them are getting pretty high. Apple is probably more concerned about Bootcamp Win10 support.

Its not a [loud] topic of discussion anymore since most kids were more interested in their first iPhone than a computer when XP ended its run. Today they're more likely to say.. see'yah and good riddance to all that old software. Keyboard replacement programs get all the attention theses days.

Its only a small minority who will care i guess.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
03-29-2019, 09:12 AM
ELinder ELinder is offline
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 121
Thanked 17 Times in 15 Posts
Ah, OK, I know all about dropping the 32 bit support. The way you worded your initial response made it sound like they were specifically going after the video capture workflow. But at any rate, that would be irrelevant since we're talking about running old capture hardware on old MacOS's, not on the current or future MacOS. The version of bootcamp provided with 10.6.5 and earlier had support for running the 32 bit version of WindowsXP SP2. I don't know which cheese grater Mac Pro he has, so he has to look into what he can run.

Erich
Reply With Quote
Reply




Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Resize video 640x480 after capturing and processing? bfollowell Capture, Record, Transfer 3 01-30-2018 06:55 AM

Thread Tools



 
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:56 PM