Quantcast PAL DV (Interlaced) Compression Has Movement Stutter? - digitalFAQ.com Forums [Archives]
  #1  
06-01-2004, 06:04 PM
someguy someguy is offline
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Hi,

I am currently trying to compress a PAL DV avi video (interlaced 25 fps) to mpeg2 format (CQ 100, max bitrate 3000) and I am getting stuttering on fast movements. Everything else looks very good.

I am using TMPGenc, the field order is set correctly and interlace mode is set for both input and target.

I am using the KVCD interlace matrix.

Im currently trying to deinterlace the video before compression and will post the result when finshed.

Thanks all.
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06-01-2004, 06:44 PM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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If you do a resize in your script be carrefull to use a interlaced oriented resizer also !

Note : no need to go to CQ=100 as CQ=90 will give the same quality if a lot less bytes.
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06-01-2004, 07:30 PM
BobNET BobNET is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by someguy
the field order is set correctly
Bottom field first? I know NTSC DV sources are BFF, and assume that PAL ones are too. But I could be wrong...
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06-01-2004, 07:44 PM
someguy someguy is offline
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Yes, it is bff.
Also I do no resize.

After deinterlace (DGBob(0,0)) the movement is alot better.

I found a thread on videohelp.com which I believe is the same issue:
http://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=213662

Last post:
Quote:
TMPGEnc encodes interlaced material as frame-based 25 fps interlaced. With Canopus Procoder you can encode your footage as field based interlaced. There's quite a big difference with MiniDV material when using this setting.
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06-02-2004, 08:14 PM
BobNET BobNET is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by someguy
Yes, it is bff.

I found a thread on videohelp.com which I believe is the same issue:
http://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=213662

Last post:
Quote:
TMPGEnc encodes interlaced material as frame-based 25 fps interlaced. With Canopus Procoder you can encode your footage as field based interlaced. There's quite a big difference with MiniDV material when using this setting.
I'm not sure what the difference between frame-based interlaced and field-based interlaced is (at least with respect to TMPGEnc vs. Canopus Procoder), but all of the interlaced material I've encoded with TMPGEnc looks alright to me (even in high-motion scenes). I'll check the most recent DV I did, though...
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06-02-2004, 08:41 PM
someguy someguy is offline
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I have not contibuted much to the subject anymore because it surpasses by far what I know.

But what I have been reading is that not every interlaced source is the same and that DV is special and will produce poor results on deinterlacing.

So, this does not exlude some interlace sources from being treated OK by TMPGenc on compression and others not.
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06-03-2004, 03:30 AM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by someguy
But what I have been reading is that not every interlaced source is the same and that DV is special and will produce poor results on deinterlacing.
The guys that wrote that probably forgot that the filed order is not the same as it used to be. If you don't take care to that, the result is necessary bad.

Quote:
So, this does not exlude some interlace sources from being treated OK by TMPGenc on compression and others not.
I don't see why : there is ONE way to interlace. As soon as you have a script that gives a correct result, it should work for any source of the same kind.
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06-03-2004, 04:30 AM
incredible incredible is offline
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As u use a high AVG and TmpgEnc's Q of 90 .....

... why dont you keep it interlaced?? As you dont suffer from a reduced outputspace finally??

Did you try to change the fieldorder??

Separatefields()
Trim(1,0)

Theoretically this changes the bff to tff (no swap fileds!) ... if its really needed.

Quote:
I'm not sure what the difference between frame-based interlaced and field-based interlaced
A truly interlaced DV Video is fieldbased. As on motion scenes every field gots its unique motion, ... thats why interlaced videos do look smoother and why there are combs.

In Avisynth the word "Fieldbased" is a bit hadled confuding as in avisynth "fieldbased" means that the fields have been separarted (full fieldrate by 1/2 height).
If your "fields" are in a weaved state (as your video comes out of the camera) then Avisynth "sees" even that as "Framebased".

So In avisynth "Framebased" = weaved fields
"Fieldbased" = separated fields
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06-04-2004, 08:27 PM
BobNET BobNET is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by incredible
Quote:
I'm not sure what the difference between frame-based interlaced and field-based interlaced
A truly interlaced DV Video is fieldbased. As on motion scenes every field gots its unique motion, ... thats why interlaced videos do look smoother and why there are combs.

...

So In avisynth "Framebased" = weaved fields
"Fieldbased" = separated fields
Okay, that makes sense... What about TMPGEnc? Does it do what I'd expect and encode each field separately when interlaced output is selected?
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06-06-2004, 04:43 PM
someguy someguy is offline
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I have done some tests with Canopus Procoder Express and the results were very good, no stuttering movements at all and the image is very clear.

So it is an issue with Tmpgenc with interlaced PAL DV material.

This seems to have been confirmed by some people on different message boards. The overall advice is always to de-interlace (which I dont want to) or switch the encoder.

Sadly, this means Tmpgenc is unusable for me. All those hours will not really be lost, but now that I was used to it... Oh well.
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