Quantcast KVCD: Interlaced/29.970 Sources? - digitalFAQ.com Forums [Archives]
  #1  
01-05-2005, 06:30 PM
gretagun gretagun is offline
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Hello, I am new at making KVCD's, and I just had a question I needed answered.

All the dvd's I have backed up thus far have been 23.976 fps progressive film sources. I am now attempting to back up my copy of Aquateen Hunger Force, Season 3. DVD2avi tells me the source is 29.970 fps and interlaced. I read Incredible's post on Interlaced/Progressive material, and tried the trick where I move the slider to a high action sequence. This is a cartoon, and I couldn't identify any scene that looked like a high action scene, but nevertheless, I did not see anything that looked like "combing". Does this mean that I actually have a 23.976 fps progressive source, and that I should select Forced Film option when creating my d2v file? If this is the case, can I pretty much use my same script and just change the GOP to 15 fps(the material is NTSC)?

Thank you, and I apologize if this is a redundant question.
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  #2  
01-05-2005, 07:44 PM
kwag kwag is offline
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Hello gretagun,

If you press "F5" on DVD2AVI, and let it run a little, does it say "FILM" or "Interlaced"

If it says FILM, then you set "Force FILM" flag. If not, then you have a truly Interlaced source.
You might want to check this page, which really helps identifying sources: http://www.100fps.com

-kwag
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  #3  
01-05-2005, 08:56 PM
gretagun gretagun is offline
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Thanks Kwag,

When I play the movie in DVD2AVI it, tells me it is interlaced. So it is a true interlaced source? I will do some searching around and see what I need to do about this before I start asking more questions.
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  #4  
01-05-2005, 09:10 PM
Prodater64 Prodater64 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gretagun
Thanks Kwag,

When I play the movie in DVD2AVI it, tells me it is interlaced. So it is a true interlaced source? I will do some searching around and see what I need to do about this before I start asking more questions.
Only trust in your eyes.
If you don't see any combing effect, your source is not really interlaced.

My question:
http://www.kvcd.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=107736#107736

Boulder answer, one of most qualified person about interlaced material.
http://www.kvcd.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=107766#107766
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  #5  
01-05-2005, 11:15 PM
gretagun gretagun is offline
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Thanks for the input guys.

I am at a total dead end right now. I still can't tell if my source is interlaced or not. It looks fine with my eyes, but I am having several other problems. I decided to test the following script with the d2v file created with Forced Film on, only b/c I don't see anything different when veiwing the movie in DVD2AVI, ie combing, anything else that doesn't look right. Now the encoded file comes out looking like it is in widescreen, using the following script:

Quote:
Mpeg2Source("C:\Documents and Settings\Casey\Desktop\h20seas3d1\h20seas3d1.d2v")
#
RemoveGrain(mode=2)
asharp(1, 4)
GripCrop(528, 480, overscan=2)
GripSize(resizer="BicubicResize")

STMedianFilter(3, 3, 1, 1 )
MergeChroma(blur(1.5))
MergeLuma(blur(0.1))
In Tmpgenc, I have aspect ratio set to 4:3 525 line NTCS, Video arrange method is set to full screen(keep aspect) ratio, using the KVCDx3-MPEG-1-NTSCFilm.mcf template. My movie is full screen.

The video looks fine(as far as the interlacing stuff is concerced), but it looks like it is now in widesceen, with borders on the top and bottom, that definitely shouldn't be there.

When I replace the grip parameters with the following from FitCD:

Quote:
Mpeg2Source("C:\Documents and Settings\Casey\Desktop\h20seas3d1\h20seas3d1.d2v")
#
RemoveGrain(mode=2)
asharp(1, 4)
BicubicResize(496, 448, 0, 0.6, 0, 2, 720, 480)
STMedianFilter(3, 3, 1, 1 )
MergeChroma(blur(1.5))
MergeLuma(blur(0.1))
ScriptClip(" nf = YDifferenceToNext()" +chr(13)+ "unfilter( -(fmin(round(nf)*2, 100)), -(fmin(round(nf)*2, 100)) ).TemporalSoften( fmin( round(2/nf), 6), round(1/nf) , round(3/nf) , 1, 1) ")
AddBorders(16, 16, 16, 16)
the video looks full screen again, with the borders added. Also I read that for cartoon material, I should change the GOP to 15 frames, but this option is always grayed out in Tmpgenc.

Are my settings for GripCrop/Size off? Am I using the correct aspect ratio settings for Tmpgenc?

Sorry for all the questions, but up until now, I was cranking out KVCD's with no problem at all, and now I feel like I am back to square one.
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  #6  
01-05-2005, 11:22 PM
kwag kwag is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gretagun
Video arrange method is set to full screen(keep aspect) ratio
Change that to "Full Screen", or "Center", because GripCrop already takes care of the correct aspect

-kwag
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  #7  
01-05-2005, 11:25 PM
kwag kwag is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gretagun
Also I read that for cartoon material, I should change the GOP to 15 frames, but this option is always grayed out in Tmpgenc.
Click right on top of "MAX number of frames in a GOP:" , and select "Unlock". Then you can change the number.

-kwag
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  #8  
01-05-2005, 11:34 PM
gretagun gretagun is offline
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Bingo! Thanks so much Kwag. Now everything looks fine again. I just set the video arrange method to full screen and that fixed that. Now I feel better Just one more quick question, and that's it, I promise. I mentioned that I treated this like it was a progressive film, even though I keep getting interlaced NTSC (when I play the video in DVD2AVI). I also mentioned that the sample I encoded looked fine to me. If this were an interlaced source, would I definitely be able to notice problems in my encoded sample?
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  #9  
01-05-2005, 11:41 PM
kwag kwag is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gretagun
If this were an interlaced source, would I definitely be able to notice problems in my encoded sample?
Yes, because when setting "Force FILM" in DVD2AVI, that would have flagged the stream, and it would look all jumpy after encoded.
But let me ask you, if you open your .avs script in Vdub, and you click right arrow and watch frame by frame, does it show every frame smoothly, or do you see like a couple of frames that are still every other 3 frames or so
If you do see every frame smoothly and not a 123 44 567 88 pattern, like where the 44 and 88 are identical frames, then your source is indeed progressive.

-kwag
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  #10  
01-06-2005, 12:09 AM
gretagun gretagun is offline
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Kwag

When I opened the .avs in Virtual Dub, and viewed it frame by frame, everything looked smooth, and the frames all appeared in a consecutive order. Now when I previewed the .avs file in Virtual Dub, the video seemed to play noticeably slower.
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  #11  
01-06-2005, 12:29 AM
kwag kwag is offline
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It will appear slow because of the script. Seems you're a go for a full encode

-kwag
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  #12  
01-06-2005, 12:33 AM
gretagun gretagun is offline
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Thanks again Kwag.

Now I can finally go to bed.
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  #13  
01-06-2005, 09:46 PM
muaddib muaddib is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kwag
But let me ask you, if you open your .avs script in Vdub, and you click right arrow and watch frame by frame, does it show every frame smoothly, or do you see like a couple of frames that are still every other 3 frames or so
If you do see every frame smoothly and not a 123 44 567 88 pattern, like where the 44 and 88 are identical frames, then your source is indeed progressive.
Note: To correctly check that you have to NOT set "Forced Film" in DVD2AVI.
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  #14  
01-08-2005, 02:29 PM
gretagun gretagun is offline
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Quote:
To correctly check that you have to NOT set "Forced Film" in DVD2AVI.
Oh, I think I checked the d2v with Forced Film on.

My kvcd came out fine, no problems. I am happy with the results. Thanks again guys.
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