Quantcast DVD Audio/Video Sync Issue - digitalFAQ.com Forums [Archives]
  #1  
02-28-2005, 11:09 AM
Minister OI Minister OI is offline
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Hi all,

Since this involves multiple apps in relation to trying to create a KDVD, I guessed this was the best place to post this.

I have been having a synch issue with audio ripped from VOBs.

Normally, I would make a d2v project file using DVD2AVI (v 1.77.3) and decode the audio to wav. Then I would process the d2v with a script and compress/convert the audio to mp2 using BeSweet (v 1.4). When brought back together in an authoring program, audio and video are in synch.

However, the last two DVD's I did this with ended up with synch problems. The audio would be in synch during part of the video, then the audio would fall behind or ahead, then be back in synch further along at various points.

As usual I searched through the forums looking for answers. I found a few incidents people had with this, and their solutions. I tried what resolved their problems, but it did not fix my synch trouble.

Here is a list of the things I have tried so far to resolve this.

I switched to DVD2AVI (v 1.76) to make the d2v and rip the audio. Did not fix it.
I used DGIndex (v 1.2.1) to make the d2v and rip the audio. Did not fix it.
In DVD2AVI and DGIndex I chose to demux the audio instead of decode it, then compress/convert it with BeSweet (v 1.4 and v 1.5b29). Did not fix it.
I used VobEdit (v 0.6) to rip the audio. Did not fix it.
I used MPEG Mediator (v 1.5) to rip the audio. Did not fix it.
I used BeSweet (v 1.4 and v 1.5b29) to rip the audio directly from the VOB. Did not fix it.
In all of the above attempts, I also tried to compress/convert the audio with HeadAC3he (v 0.23a and 0.24aB) instead of using BeSweet. Did not fix it.


I am at a loss as to what to try next.

I will say this. The audio ripped by BeSweet direct from the VOB was the closest to being in synch for a majority of the video. I am not sure why.

As for the source, it is 25fps interlaced material. The frame rate is not being changed.

Another strange observation. The DVD's have multiple VOBs, and some of them do not end up with synch issues at all.
As an example, the one I am focused on has the material spread out over 6 vobs. In four of them I get the synch problem. The other two are fine. All claim to have the same audio format.

I hope someone here can help me track down what might be causing this problem. Been trying to figure it out for the past few days.

Thanks.
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  #2  
02-28-2005, 11:55 AM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minister OI
Normally, I would make a d2v project file using DVD2AVI (v 1.77.3) and decode the audio to wav.
That's starting badly.
DO you mean you do this with DVD2AVI ? If yes, do not do that ! Use "Demux" as audio mode in DVD2AVI and let besweet work on the ac3 file that will be demuxed, and not the wav. The ac3->mp2 result will be far better.
(even if this does not fix your current problem).

Quote:
As for the source, it is 25fps interlaced material. The frame rate is not being changed.
Isn't you source an "Hybrid" one ? That is a source that use a mix of interlaced and progressive parts ?

What is the length in minute of the d2v project and the one of the wav file ? Are they the same ?

Quote:
As an example, the one I am focused on has the material spread out over 6 vobs. In four of them I get the synch problem. The other two are fine. All claim to have the same audio format.
What is the movie ? How did you ripp it on the HD ?
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  #3  
02-28-2005, 01:03 PM
Boulder Boulder is offline
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You should also post the script you use.
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  #4  
02-28-2005, 09:05 PM
Minister OI Minister OI is offline
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Dialhot - I am not sure if it is a "hybrid" type. Since it was reported as interlaced in DVD2AVI, I thought I better test it using the following script.

Mpeg2Source("F:\Project.d2v")
AssumeTFF()
SeparateFields()

Loaded that into Virtual Dub and checked for frames that went forward then back. Discovered it was a TFF source.

The length of the dv2 and the wav are the same. The files are also the same length after being processed/converted.

The 2 DVD's this is happening on are 1) Monty Python and the Holy Grail and 2) Tenacious D The Complete Masterworks (DVD#2). DVD #1 of Tenacious D I did not have problems with, only #2. Tenacious D is also the one I am focused on right now trying to figure out this problem.

I used DVD Rebuilder to rip it to the hard drive. I rip the entire thing and sort out what I do not want later on. I might have used DVD Decrypter for the Holy Grail one. I did that one a while ago and left the ripped content sitting on my hard drive for some time.


Boulder - Here is the script I use.

------

Mpeg2Source("F:\Project.d2v")
FieldDeInterlace(full=true,blend=true)
DRemoveGrain()
Deen()
asharp(4,6,1)
GripCrop(528, 480, overscan=2, source_anamorphic=false)
GripSize(resizer="BicubicResize")
STMedianFilter(3, 3, 1, 1 )
MergeChroma(blur(1.5))
MergeLuma(blur(0.1))
#
#

## Linear Motion Adaptive Filtering ##
#
# ( Portions from AviSynth's manual )
# This will apply variable temporalsoften
# and variable blur.
# Both filters are active at all times, and work inversely proportional tothe
# activity, measured from current frame to next frame.

ScriptClip(" nf = YDifferenceToNext()" +chr(13)+ "unfilter(-(fmin(round(nf)*2, 100)), -(fmin(round(nf)*2, 100))
).TemporalSoften( fmin( round(2/nf), 6), round(1/nf) , round(3/nf) , 1, 1) ")

GripBorders()


#
#
## Functions ###

function fmin( int f1, int f2) {
return ( f1<f2 ) ? f1 : f2
}

-------

I have also run scripts on the same video keeping the material interlaced as well, thinking just in case somehow the problem was related to that. Did not change it though.

Any of this pointing to something being the cause of this problem? I hope so. Thanks for trying to help me out.
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  #5  
03-01-2005, 01:17 AM
Boulder Boulder is offline
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Monty Python and the Holy Grail is definitely not interlaced, I can tell you that much.

You should use IFO mode in DVD Decrypter to rip the DVD. I don't know if it makes any difference regarding a/v sync, but there is always a chance it will affect things.

Quote:
the one I am focused on has the material spread out over 6 vobs. In four of them I get the synch problem.
What do you mean you have the sync issue with four VOBs? How do you process them?
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  #6  
03-01-2005, 01:44 AM
Minister OI Minister OI is offline
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Rather then grouping all the VOBs together when making the d2v, I make a d2v for each one. So for 6 VOBs from the DVD rip I end up with 6 d2v projects with related audio. (I have also tried to group them all together and make one large d2v project, but still had synch audio issues).

Processing them I Use either DVD2AVI or DGIndex to make the d2v project files for each VOB. I use the script I posted to process the d2v files. The audio I have done both ways from DVD2AVI and DGIndex (decode/demux modes) just in case one was causing the problem. I have processed the audio trying BeSweet and HeadaC3he to get the mp2 file. When authoring I use DVDLab, which was where I first noticed the problem. Since then with all my test I have been using Mplex to Mux them and test for synch issues.

For some reason, in two of the VOBs out of those 6, I do not have a resulting synch issue after all the processing. I have one VOB in particular I have been doing all the tests on since the synch problem was most easy to detect in it. Here is some more information about the material in the particular VOB (in case it is helpful).

It contains 3 different tv appearances by the band. The audio synchs with those. It is then followed by a music video. The synch here slides out. That is followed by a "making of the music video" video. The synch here is still out, but not as harsh as during the previous music video.

Another thing I noticed in reviewing my notes. The VOBs that do not have the synch problems after processing are ones that contain one long source. By that I mean there is no "fade to black" and then begins some new video segment. The delay seems to occur in the VOB's which have brief seperations between different video segments within them.

Any ideas?

BTW - From what I am reading about sources reported as Interlaced but being really being progressive, it would be advisable to use Restore24 to return to how the source was intended. I downloaded Restore24 and have begun to run a script testing it. From what I can tell though, it should not be related to the synch issue I am having. Or am I wrong in thinking that?
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  #7  
03-01-2005, 01:48 AM
Boulder Boulder is offline
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Take one VOB where you have a sync issue. Decode the original AC3 track to WAV. Open the WAV file in an audio editor and see if there happen to be any extra silence in the beginning or anything unusual.
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  #8  
03-01-2005, 01:57 AM
Minister OI Minister OI is offline
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Took a look at the wav inside Wavelab and Adobe Audition (I am a musician mainly) and nothing unusual seems to be wrong with the file. No added gaps or anything of that sort I can detect.
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  #9  
03-01-2005, 03:54 AM
Boulder Boulder is offline
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Restore24 is mainly for restoring bad NTSC->PAL transfers so it probably doesn't apply here. And as you figured, it doesn't affect a/v sync issues.

Have you tried some other authoring tool?

What comes to progressive content shown as interlaced in DVD2AVI, it's just a flag in the stream which DVD2AVI/DGIndex detects. You must only trust your eyes. No combing->progressive , combing->truly interlaced, fieldshifted or a bad transfer.
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  #10  
03-01-2005, 04:18 AM
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After noticing the synch problem, I stopped bringing the files into DVDlab and compiling them. Instead I would mux them using Mplex and would also mux using TMPGEnc, then test them to see if the synch problem was still going on. Unfortunately, it still has remained for every test I have done. So I have not attempted using another DVD authoring tool since I seem to find the problem before I even get to that stage.

This is certainly frustrating. I keep thinking there must be some small item at the bottom of this problem, but it eludes me. Argh!

When you mentioned authoring tool, did you also mean the app used for processing the avs file? I am using CCE v 2.67.00.23 for that, in case that is revealing of something. Not tried to use TMPHEnc for that since I am creating MPEG2 files. Do you think that could possibly cause the problem? If so, I will give TMPGEnc a shot and see what happens.
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  #11  
03-01-2005, 04:37 AM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minister OI
I used DVD Rebuilder to rip it to the hard drive.
I don't have any idea at the moment about your problem but I'm puzzled by this : DVDRebuild isn't a ripper. It needs to have the DVD ripped (and decrypted) on the disc to process the files.
Do you mean that you are trying to convert into KDVD a DVD that you already precessed with DVDRebuilder ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minister OI
If so, I will give TMPGEnc a shot and see what happens.
If you do that, ask to tmgpenc to encode video and audio at the same time, this solves a lot of synch issues.
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  #12  
03-01-2005, 04:58 AM
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Jeez. Sorry about that. I just realized what I wrote. Total error. DVD Decrypter (v 3.5.1.0) was what I used to rip the DVD. I had another Rebuilder item I was working with using the RBOpt app and changing the default size of the DVD in Rebuilders ini file. Still had it on the brain. This is what I get for trying to do this stuff at 3 AM. :P

I will give TMPGEnc a shot in the way you suggested.
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  #13  
03-04-2005, 04:47 PM
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Well, sorry to report that using TMPGEnc in the way we discussed did not help. The audio/video synch problem still exists.

Since the synch issue begins right at a specific point, I decided to use DVD2AVI's edit points to create a d2v project of just that section. Still did not resolve the issue though.

I rechecked the VOB itself, as well as the DVD source to make sure the problem was not existing right from the start. They had no synch problem.

As was suggested, I also ripped the DVD again making sure to use IFO mode in DVD Decrypter. Did not make a difference sadly.

A thought occured that maybe the problem is with the video codec that is used for encoding the video on my end. Would that make any sense? If it does, how do I determine which codec is being used to encode. Finding the decoding ones are easy, but encoding I am not sure.

If that is not the problem, then I am at a loss. It does not seem to make sense to me why this would occur.
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  #14  
03-04-2005, 04:59 PM
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This could be a problem with this particular DVD.
Try demuxing the audio to WAV from your VOBs with "MPEG Mediator".
I've seen that problem before, and Mediator has done the job.

Edit: I see you already tried Mediator.

-kwag
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  #15  
03-04-2005, 06:57 PM
Dialhot Dialhot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minister OI
A thought occured that maybe the problem is with the video codec that is used for encoding the video on my end. Would that make any sense? If it does, how do I determine which codec is being used to encode. Finding the decoding ones are easy, but encoding I am not sure.
Mpeg is not like DIvx for instance : encoder do not use external codecs. They all have it in their internal engine.

Moreover I really don't understand how you can have unsynch if you encoded audio and video at the same time *and* you have the same length for video and audio stream. That's seems so unlogical
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  #16  
03-05-2005, 03:36 AM
Boulder Boulder is offline
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I'd try running the DVD through DVD Shrink uncompressed, it might fix things. There should also be utils that reauthor the whole disc without doing any compression if necessary.
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  #17  
03-06-2005, 01:58 AM
Minister OI Minister OI is offline
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Quote:
Moreover I really don't understand how you can have unsynch if you encoded audio and video at the same time *and* you have the same length for video and audio stream. That's seems so unlogical
I agree. I think that is what is bothering me most about this problem. I cannot make sense of it.

For another test, I loaded the Vob into VirtualDubMod, playback was in synch. I compressed it with VDubMod. Video and audio at the same time. The resulting AVI file had the same synch problem at the same point.

Things like this really get under my skin. I keep thinking maybe there is some small thing involving my codecs or something related that is causing this weird problem and I am just missing it. How could the VOB be fine when loaded up as DVD on hard drive, or imported into VDubMod, then in the resulting file after processing have synch issues everytime?

Unless there are any other ideas as to what might be causing this, I think I am going to use a video editor to chop/shift the audio at the point of the synch issue. That leads me to this question.

Can anyone recommend a video editor that will allow you to import m2v files as well as wav and/or mp2 files, then permit you to edit the audio file and check the synch in real time in the project window? Also, if it could do this without needing to recode the audio as well, that would be best.

Ulead Media Studio Pro seems like it might fit the bill. It offers realtime playback of edited work in the project window, but I am not sure about being able to save files without recoding. Runs under $300. Not too bad.

Of course, I would love to use freeware if I could, or something that costs less that will allow me to edit in the fashion I need.

Any ideas/suggestions would be much appreciated. Thanks so much for all of you trying to help me solve this synch problem.

Min
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  #18  
03-06-2005, 04:52 AM
Boulder Boulder is offline
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Before you go out and buy any program, try DVD Shrink. Do a non-compressed backup and see if the sync is off with that one. It could be that the DVD is authored in a bad way. You could also try DVD Rebuilder and see if it works.

I've noticed that using DirectShowSource (ffdshow decoding) with AVIs causes similar symptoms as you have seen. The a/v sync is perfect, then suddenly jumps off at some point etc.
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  #19  
03-06-2005, 10:26 AM
Minister OI Minister OI is offline
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Sadly nothing good to report. I tried DVD Shrink in the way you suggested and it did not resolve the problem. I am not sure what else I could do to resolve this, aside from using video editing software to fix the synch.

Damn
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  #20  
03-06-2005, 10:30 AM
Boulder Boulder is offline
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Can you upload a small piece of the VOB that has the sync issue? Any clip that clearly shows the problem would be enough to investigate further, possibly from a spot where the sync is first OK, then gets all screwed up.
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