KDVD: 16:9 or 4:3 ? - Page 2

dazedconfused · #21 04-13-2003, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwag

Quote:

Originally Posted by vhelp

Is this overlap feature some kind of filter add-on,
or just an inclusion of some form of calculation that MStacker uses ??

Moviestacker will do it automatically for you

. The good thing about it is that you'll be encoding less pixels, which you would not see anyway on your TV, and this translates to a higher CQ value and higher quality

Use overscan for Full screen movies and use overlap for Wide screen movies.
-kwag

Excuse my thickness Kwag

, but could you please post an example script showing the overlap-equivalent to using 2 blocks of overscan in GripCrop. I understand the reasoning of using Overlap versus Overscan, I just don't know how/where to place it properly in my script (see, I don't use MStacker...I do my kvcd's the old-fashioned manual way!

). Perhaps adding this info to your Optimal Script stickypost might also be a good idea so that everyone will know if/when they should use Overlap instead of Overscan?

Thanks,
-d&c

kwag · #22 04-13-2003, 07:25 PM

Hi d&c,

The best way is for you to see an interactive sample script

Just run MovieStacker and select "Use GripFit (Crop + Resize)"
Now simply switch between "Resize" and "Overlap" buttons and look at the script window. There you'll see what is being added at the end of the script

-kwag

vhelp · #23 04-13-2003, 08:36 PM

hi Kwag..

Ok, thanks again for pointing out MStacker's overscan/overlap.
I gave a quick lookseez and basically saw that it's incorporating a few
lines of code ie, resizebicubic(); addboarders() and/or letterbox() ..
basically what I do,but the hard and long way, and not so fancy as this
app does he he.. So, I'm still in tuned afterall. Great.

I do have a request for Mauddib but he hasn't ben around for a
few days.. I guess he's still having PC problems ??

Thanks for you help.
-vhelp

muaddib · #24 04-13-2003, 11:05 PM

Hi vhelp,

Just say it! (better if you put in MovieStacker forum)
I'm all ears!

About PC problems… yep, they are haunting me this week!

PyRoMaNiA · #25 04-19-2003, 03:21 PM

Haven't actually got round to taking a sample CD to a shop yet...but I posted on the VCDHelp forums, and it seems WS TVs have a "16:9 zoom" function which stretches the picture vertically and horizontally to fill the screen, so I would assume that this will cause any letterboxed 4:3s to look right. Will try to take a CD to a shop soon though....

Now I'm not sure about encoding to 4:3 or 16:9...16:9 encodes dont look right on my 4:3 TV, my DVD player completely ignores the fact that it's an anamorphic encode, and either squishes it to fit the screen, or cuts off the sides to fit the screen, and anamorphic encodes do take up more space...I think I might just stick with 4:3.........

..or is there a way I could get 16:9s to display correctly on 4:3 TVs?

PyRoMaNiA · #26 04-19-2003, 03:32 PM

And another thing..I cant seem to resize all 16:9s properly. True 2.35:1 640x272 resize fine, but other aspect ratios (like those with resolution 640x352) dont seem to resize properly and still look slightly squished (when playing on PowerDVD).

vhelp · #27 04-19-2003, 03:40 PM

hi PyRo..

When you say "squished" exactly how do you mean ??

Can you U/L a pic or two of your "squshies" ??

When I do 16:9 encodes, I may be off a little, because I don't have a
complete understanding of AR (just yet) but I'm learning a little here and
there.

But, when I do 16:9 encodes, and I play then on my DVD player, they
play fine, based on my memory. And, I just recently did a 16:9 with a
resolution of 352x480. But, I will double-check that to be sure, because
today, I was playing what I thought was one of them, and they did not
play right at all. So, I will try and squeeze in a few 352x480 encodes at
16:9 and burn to CD and see if I was right all along. - I hope I was he he..

If you ARE playing through PDVD and its still not displaying 16:9 on your
PC monitor, then you may have your AR set incorrectly in PDVD. My
version is v3.0 WDVD v3.0 doesn't seem to line any 16:9 encodes from TMPG
other than the VOBs themselves.

-vhelp

PyRoMaNiA · #28 04-19-2003, 04:47 PM

By "squished" i mean the picture needs to be stretched horizontally a bit...like people are too tall...

I think I have the the aspect ratio set correctly in PowerDVD, I followed your instructions:

Quote:

Originally Posted by vhelp

4:3 Pan&Scan Screen:
[Change to 1024x768]
[x] ask me before change (if you want this)

16:9 Widescreen:
16:9 Pan&Scan Screen [Change to 1024x768]
[ ] ask me before change

Screen Control:
[ ] run full screen
[x] Keep screen aspect ratio (AR)

vhelp · #29 04-19-2003, 10:04 PM

Hay PyRo..

Here's what I used in my TMPG encode, based on kdvd template, as this is
how I name my encodes:

Quote:

041903.a.04.(dv).CQ(70x2500x300[x]x0x0).GOP(1x5823x2x1x18.[][][]).Quant(kdvd-352x480-Half-D1-_NTSC).fps(29.970).dc(10bts).vst(non-int).field(B).AR(16-9).vam(full).StreamType(mpeg-2-SuperVCD[vbr]).mpg

I must say, although my DV footage was in a darkly lit scene, it came out very
nice w/ Kwag's KDVD template.

If I don't name them clear enough, later on, when I least expect it, I'll wonder
which template or setting(s) I used in THAT encode, way back when. I've ben there
and done it many times. So, I learn from my mistakes. Now, I basically name all
my encodes w/ my encoding settings. But, sometimes I'll skimp for obvious reasons.

Now, given the above, I have tested it out on my Apex AD-1500, and it plays beautifully
on my 13" TV he he.. Oh, yes.. in 16:9 widescreen view. My DVD player or TV added in
the black bars.. just as I suspected.

My source and specs:
* Canon ZR-10 DV CAM
--** Footage shot in 16:9 mode
* AVIsynth v1.0 beta 5
* vdub v1.4.9
* TMPGEnc v2.53
--** encoded as: IN(16:9) and OUT(16:9)

Process:
DV(filename.avi) -> AVIsynth(Interlace.avs) -> vdub(01.vdr) -> TMPG

Notes:
WDVD v3.0 does not play 16:9 encodes in 16:9 (WS) view, but PDVD v3.0
does, given the above settings (see PyRo..'s note above) and my above
setup and encoding process.

Given my successful expreience above, perhaps you are indeed have a few
flaws in your processes.
Maybe you lay down some specs and processes so we can see where you are
going wrong ??

-vhelp

PyRoMaNiA · #30 04-20-2003, 08:08 AM

Source type: XviD *.avi
Source res: 640x272

Script:

Code:

LegalClip()
GripCrop(480,480,dest_anamorphic=true)
GripSize(resizer="BiCubicResize")
STMedianFilter(10,50,0,0,10,50)
PixieDust()
unfilter(50,50)
mergechroma(blur(1.58))
mergeluma(blur(0.3))
GripBorders()
LegalClip()

Settings in TMPGEnc:
KVCDx3 MPEG-1 NTSC Template
Resolution changed to: 480x480
Aspect ratio: 16:9 525 line (NTSC)
Source aspect ratio: 16:9 525 line (NTSC)
Video arrange Method: Full screen (keep aspect ratio)

When played in PowerDVD with aforementioned settings, looks fine, borders added. When played on TV, fills whole screen. I forget the exact settings, but I think when I set my DVD player (Toshiba SD-220E) to 4:3 it was squished (as I described before) to fit the screen, and when I set it to 16:9, it filled the screen and was in proportion... but had the sides cut off.

vhelp · #31 04-20-2003, 11:28 AM

hi PyRo..

I am with you on this headacke ride. I'm now understading why you are
going crazy w/ all this 16:9 encodes.

Ok, member yesterday.. when I said (in my above post) that i got a 16:9
w/ boarders added in my 352x480 WS encodes.. ?? .. ??
Well, today this morning, ITS NOT PLAYING 16:9 ..RATs !@!@!

If it plays at all, its playing double-lined (cant make it out) or else it's
playing FullScreen (FS) !! RATs !@!@!

Ok, so I started to thinking, and back-tracking my steps. What did I do to
get 16:9 and boarders added in my final 16:9 encodes ??
.
.
Then, I remembered something..

.. I had the DVD disk of the Movie
The Fifth Element in hte DVD player, and when I had turned on the
unit, it started playing (on widescreen side) (

light-bulb

)

So, sure enough, I followed the same course of action. I turned off the unit
and then turned back on, and put in my DVD disk, let it start, and then I
took it out, and then put in MY CDRW disk, and guess what ?? It started to
play - but only this time, it was FULLSCREEN ..RATs !@!@!

Either my eyes have deceaved me yesterday, or I've ben at it far TOO long
in this hobby of mine

Bottom line, I am going to have to REALLY work on this 16:9 issue because
it's something I really want to use in my DV projects, and if I'm going to
take advantage of the lower resolution to beat the bitrate rage, I'm gonna
have to really look into this seriously

I think that the next time I perform this test, I'm deffinately going to have
to RECORD it to DV TAPE for proof, because I'm tired to being in error on this
issue - - I mean, I know what I saw.. at least I think.. no wait a min..
Now, I'm really.. !@! RATs !@!

PyRo..
I'll get back to ya IF and WHEN I do have something concrete !!
..to be continued

-vhelp

J-Wo · #32 01-10-2004, 08:35 AM

[quote="kwag"]

Quote:

Originally Posted by vhelp

Use overscan for Full screen movies and use overlap for Wide screen movies.

Hey Kwag. I've been following this rule for all my kvcd's but now that I've switched to kdvds and have a widescreen tv, how does this rule apply? I make all my encodes in anamorphic for the 16:9 tv, so there is no more letterboxing. Does this mean all my encodes are technically "full screen" and I should use resize instead of overlap? That's what I have been doing, but do notice I am missing some information at the top and bottom of my 16:9 tv that I do see on a 4:3 tv, and I was wondering if this may have somethign to do with it.

kwag · #33 01-10-2004, 09:17 AM

Hi J-Wo,

Try resize (not overlap), but with only 1 block tv overscan.
That should still expand to the edges of the tv screen, and you should still have the top and bottom flush with the tv edges.
If that's not the case, then use overlap so the top and bottom fill the screen. But then you'll loose a couple of pixels on the left and right of the movie.

-kwag