MainConcept MPEG Encoder 1.4.1 is Out

ak47 · #1 12-03-2003, 05:10 PM

They said they got some bug fixes out, and all I can say is there definitely right, I even got CQ Mode 128 working w/o error(s), and got some good results. And there is a new feature called auto GOP with looks like it has potential, more info go here http://forum.mainconcept.com/viewtopic.php?t=1131. If you want me to I can post my new template, or you can just get my old one and just add what you want.

Going though lots of testing and yes looking very promising.

P.S. I am a MPEG-2 fan since my DVD-player is one too, so all my testing is MPEG-2.

digitall.doc · #2 12-03-2003, 06:28 PM

Hi ak47:
since I'm trying to make an MPEG2 file from an analog capture, I downloaded MCE 1.4.1. And I'm new to this. I read in the forums that there's a template for MCE, like that ones for TMPGEnc (a file named ***.mef, isn't it?). Could someone post a similar kind of templates (for KDVD and for SKVCD, all MPEG2) for MCE, like those for TMPGEnc?.
And you talk about CQ in MCE. But I've been messing around the program, and didn't see where I have to set CQ mode...
As you can see, I'm really a newbie in this program (well, almost in anything)

ak47 · #3 12-03-2003, 06:59 PM

First to change it to CQ mode you must select variable bit rate change the min bitrate to 0 and same with average. For the template use this. That you paste in the Documents and setting, user name, application data, and MCMPEGEnc folder (this is after you create a blank or some type of mpeg-2 template).

Code:

[MAIN]
StreamType=1
MpegType=2
VideoMode=0
AudioMode=2
Width=544
Height=480
DestStartX=0
DestStartY=0
DestWidth=544
DestHeight=480
SrcStartX=0
SrcStartY=0
SrcWidth=544
SrcHeight=480
FlipVertical=0
SampleRate=44100
LineFiltering=0
Deinterlacing=0
Passes=1
ID=mep-profile
Name=kvcd mpeg-2
[WaveAudio]
Channels=2048
Bits=758
[basic]
settingsVersion=2
online=0
perfLevel=16
motionSearchType=23
mpegType=2
deinterlacing_mode=0
relaxed_standards=1
[video]
videoPulldownFlag=2
rateControlMode=128
aspectRatio=2
frameRateCode=1
iFramesInGOP=126
ipFrameDistance=3
bitrateFlag=0
mquantValue=4
constBitrate=6000000
maxBitrate=3000000
avgBitrate=0
minBitrate=0
timeCode0=0
dropFrameTC=0
constrParms=0
closedGOPs=15
[audio]
audioLayer=0
audioMode=0
deEmphasis=0
audioBitrate=4864
privateBit=0
copyrightBit=1342182150
originalBit=0
errorProtection=134222577
psychModel=0
[multiplex]
programStreamType=2
vbrMultiplex=1
padVCDAudio=0
writeProgramEndCode=1
muxSVCDScanOffsets=0
alignSequenceHeaders=0
usePrivateStream2=0
useComputedBitrate=0
frameTimestamps=0
muxPulldownFlag=3
userMuxRate=0
sectorSize=2048
packetsPerPack=1
videoBufferSize=0
audioBufferSize=0
audio1BufferSize=0
sectorDelay=0
videoDelay=180
audioDelay=180
audio1Delay=180
alwaysWriteSysHeader=0
maxFileSize=0
muxStartTime=0
muxStopTime=0
resetClocks=1
setBrokenLink=1
writeEndCodes=1
[advVideo]
profile=4
level=8
chromaFormat=1
colorPrimaries=4
transferCharacteristics=4
matrixCoefficients=5
videoFormat=2
intraDCPrec=2
vbvBufferSize=56
forceVBVDelay=1
displayHorizontalSize=544
displayVerticalSize=480
progressiveSequence=0
progressiveFrame=1
fieldPictures=0
topFieldFirst=0
repeatFirstField=0
intraVLCFormatI=1
intraVLCFormatP=1
intraVLCFormatB=1
framePredDCTI=1
framePredDCTP=1
framePredDCTB=1
quantizationScaleI=1
quantizationScaleP=1
quantizationScaleB=1
alternateScanI=1
alternateScanP=1
alternateScanB=1
writeSequenceDisplayExt=0
writeSequenceEveryGOP=1
writeSequenceEndCode=1
embedSVCDUserBlocks=0
writePictureDisplayExt=0
frameCentreHorizontalOffset=0
frameCentreVerticalOffset=0
qtNoiseSensitivity=0
featureFlags=32
reactionParameter=0
initialAverageActivity=0
initialIComplexity=0
initialPComplexity=0
initialBComplexity=0
initialIFullness=0
initialPFullness=0
initialBFullness=0
minFramePercentage=25
padFramePercentage=0
autoVectorLengths=0
horzPelMovement=0
vertPelMovement=0
forwHorzFCodeP=5
forwVertFCodeP=5
forwHorzSearchP=93
forwVertSearchP=81
forwHorzFCodeB1=3
forwVertFCodeB1=3
forwHorzSearchB1=31
forwVertSearchB1=27
backHorzFCodeB1=4
backVertFCodeB1=4
backHorzSearchB1=62
backVertSearchB1=54
forwHorzFCodeB2=4
forwVertFCodeB2=4
forwHorzSearchB2=62
forwVertSearchB2=54
backHorzFCodeB2=3
backVertFCodeB2=3
backHorzSearchB2=31
backVertSearchB2=27
forwHorzFCodeB3=0
forwVertFCodeB3=0
forwHorzSearchB3=0
forwVertSearchB3=0
backHorzFCodeB3=0
backVertFCodeB3=0
backHorzSearchB3=0
backVertSearchB3=0
forwHorzFCodeB4=0
forwVertFCodeB4=0
forwHorzSearchB4=0
forwVertSearchB4=0
backHorzFCodeB4=0
backVertFCodeB4=0
backHorzSearchB4=0
backVertSearchB4=0
forwHorzFCodeB5=0
forwVertFCodeB5=0
forwHorzSearchB5=0
forwVertSearchB5=0
backHorzFCodeB5=0
backVertFCodeB5=0
backHorzSearchB5=0
backVertSearchB5=0
forwHorzFCodeB6=0
forwVertFCodeB6=0
forwHorzSearchB6=0
forwVertSearchB6=0
backHorzFCodeB6=0
backVertFCodeB6=0
backHorzSearchB6=0
backVertSearchB6=0
forwHorzFCodeB7=0
forwVertFCodeB7=0
forwHorzSearchB7=0
forwVertSearchB7=0
backHorzFCodeB7=0
backVertFCodeB7=0
backHorzSearchB7=0
backVertSearchB7=0
ignore_frame_interval=0
user_iquant=1
intra_q[0]=8
intra_q[1]=9
intra_q[2]=12
intra_q[3]=22
intra_q[4]=26
intra_q[5]=27
intra_q[6]=29
intra_q[7]=34
intra_q[8]=9
intra_q[9]=10
intra_q[10]=14
intra_q[11]=26
intra_q[12]=27
intra_q[13]=29
intra_q[14]=34
intra_q[15]=37
intra_q[16]=12
intra_q[17]=14
intra_q[18]=18
intra_q[19]=27
intra_q[20]=29
intra_q[21]=34
intra_q[22]=37
intra_q[23]=38
intra_q[24]=22
intra_q[25]=26
intra_q[26]=27
intra_q[27]=31
intra_q[28]=36
intra_q[29]=37
intra_q[30]=38
intra_q[31]=40
intra_q[32]=26
intra_q[33]=27
intra_q[34]=29
intra_q[35]=36
intra_q[36]=39
intra_q[37]=38
intra_q[38]=40
intra_q[39]=48
intra_q[40]=27
intra_q[41]=29
intra_q[42]=34
intra_q[43]=37
intra_q[44]=38
intra_q[45]=40
intra_q[46]=48
intra_q[47]=58
intra_q[48]=29
intra_q[49]=34
intra_q[50]=37
intra_q[51]=38
intra_q[52]=40
intra_q[53]=48
intra_q[54]=58
intra_q[55]=69
intra_q[56]=34
intra_q[57]=37
intra_q[58]=38
intra_q[59]=40
intra_q[60]=48
intra_q[61]=58
intra_q[62]=69
intra_q[63]=79
user_niquant=1
inter_q[0]=16
inter_q[1]=18
inter_q[2]=20
inter_q[3]=22
inter_q[4]=24
inter_q[5]=26
inter_q[6]=28
inter_q[7]=30
inter_q[8]=18
inter_q[9]=20
inter_q[10]=22
inter_q[11]=24
inter_q[12]=26
inter_q[13]=28
inter_q[14]=30
inter_q[15]=32
inter_q[16]=20
inter_q[17]=22
inter_q[18]=24
inter_q[19]=26
inter_q[20]=28
inter_q[21]=30
inter_q[22]=32
inter_q[23]=34
inter_q[24]=22
inter_q[25]=24
inter_q[26]=26
inter_q[27]=30
inter_q[28]=32
inter_q[29]=32
inter_q[30]=34
inter_q[31]=36
inter_q[32]=24
inter_q[33]=26
inter_q[34]=28
inter_q[35]=32
inter_q[36]=34
inter_q[37]=34
inter_q[38]=36
inter_q[39]=38
inter_q[40]=26
inter_q[41]=28
inter_q[42]=30
inter_q[43]=32
inter_q[44]=34
inter_q[45]=36
inter_q[46]=38
inter_q[47]=40
inter_q[48]=28
inter_q[49]=30
inter_q[50]=32
inter_q[51]=34
inter_q[52]=36
inter_q[53]=38
inter_q[54]=42
inter_q[55]=42
inter_q[56]=30
inter_q[57]=32
inter_q[58]=34
inter_q[59]=36
inter_q[60]=38
inter_q[61]=40
inter_q[62]=42
inter_q[63]=44

P.S. change what you want like gop and so on.

digitall.doc · #4 12-04-2003, 08:49 AM

Thanx ak for your answer.
If I set min and average to 0, then CQ works with bitrate between 0 and max bitrate, am I wrong?. And, is there any figure to adjust the CQ level?. Sorry for these really newbie questions, but as you see I'm lost.
Whe also cannot work in CQ-VBR mode, isn't it?. I'm not thinking about using it yet, because I think about making use of MCE for SKVCD and KDVD, with resolutions above 352x576, and average bitrates above 1800.
In your template I see that the resolution is 544x480. Do I have to crop&resize, or just resize in my avs script and leave crop&resize as is, or better in blank?.
Do I have to set the mode like in TMPGEnc (center, full screen (keep aspect ratio),...), or will it be done automatically?.
Maybe you'll think I'd better make some tests before asking

, but as I said, I'm lost.
Thankyou for your help

kwag · #5 12-04-2003, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by digitall.doc

If I set min and average to 0, then CQ works with bitrate between 0 and max bitrate, am I wrong?.

Right, and that's one of the crappiest features of MCE, because having a MIN of 0, will miserably fail on most standalone DVD players

Quote:

And, is there any figure to adjust the CQ level?.

Again, another bad feature (just like in CCE), where the increment steps are integer values. There are no decimals, so CQ resolutions are limited

Quote:

Sorry for these really newbie questions, but as you see I'm lost.

Now you're not

Quote:

Whe also cannot work in CQ-VBR mode, isn't it?.

There's no such thing in MCE. Actually, it's a "CQ" type encoding, but the clasification of CQ or CQ_VBR is really defined in TMPEG.

Quote:

I'm not thinking about using it yet, because I think about making use of MCE for SKVCD and KDVD, with resolutions above 352x576, and average bitrates above 1800.

That's the way MCE really shines, and also at 352x240(28

. For anything else, use TMPEG.

Quote:

In your template I see that the resolution is 544x480. Do I have to crop&resize, or just resize in my avs script and leave crop&resize as is, or better in blank?.

Don't use MCE for 544x

You'll get a crappy MPEG file, because MCE can't handle proper bitrate distribution at that resolution, for the needed bitrate "swing" between MIN, avg and MAX, unless you increase your MIN and average. But then you'll void the primary concept, which is to make your KVCD at a low average bitrate. Use TMPEG for that.

-kwag

incredible · #6 12-04-2003, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwag

Again, another bad feature (just like in CCE), where the increment steps are integer values. There are no decimals, so CQ resolutions are limited

And did you recognise the possible range of the integer CQ values? Not that much, right?

That's also a reason why I kicked MCE directly out of my prediction routine tests. But maybe at that time I still stuck with an older Version?? Well its 4-5 Weeks ago and at that time I used the newest.

ak47 · #7 12-04-2003, 09:59 AM

Kwag I love MCE cause I get better results, but I have to agree with you 100%. The CQ mode is crap since you only get a choice of 0-31 and 5 and above are always going to be less quality than you want (you can only get 500MBS even on a 3 hour movie). But if you get the right CQ to match you movie then it is very superior. Yes MCE does need to change few things in there encoder, but mostly there CQ mode.Also

Quote:

Don't use MCE for 544x
You'll get a crappy MPEG file, because MCE can't handle proper bitrate distribution at that resolution, for the needed bitrate "swing" between MIN, avg and MAX, unless you increase your MIN and average. But then you'll void the primary concept, which is to make your KVCD at a low average bitrate. Use TMPEG for that.

Could you explain more on that.

kwag · #8 12-04-2003, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ak47

Quote:

Don't use MCE for 544x
You'll get a crappy MPEG file, because MCE can't handle proper bitrate distribution at that resolution, for the needed bitrate "swing" between MIN, avg and MAX, unless you increase your MIN and average. But then you'll void the primary concept, which is to make your KVCD at a low average bitrate. Use TMPEG for that.

Could you explain more on that.

It's very simple. Run CalcuMatic, and choose a movie of around 2 hours.
Now feed the average bitrate given to CalcuMatic. Use MIN=300 and MAX=2,500 and set your TMPEG project to 704x480.
Now find CQ and make a clip of a couple of minutes.
Now run MCE, and use the same MIN, AVG and MAX, and encode the same first couple of minutes.
Now playback the MCE encode, and enjoy "Rubics Cube" on action scenes

The clip created with TMPEG, will exhibit FAR FAR less blocks that the MCE encode.
Drag the mpeg files to bitrate viewer, and you'll see that the clip made with MCE doesn't have high enough bitrate on peaks, but the one created with TMPEG will

-kwag

ak47 · #9 12-04-2003, 10:31 AM

Quote:

It's very simple. Run CalcuMatic, and choose a movie of around 2 hours.
Now feed the average bitrate given to CalcuMatic. Use MIN=300 and MAX=2,500 and set your TMPEG project to 704x480.
Now find CQ and make a clip of a couple of minutes.
Now run MCE, and use the same MIN, AVG and MAX, and encode the same first couple of minutes.
Now playback the MCE encode, and enjoy "Rubics Cube" on action scenes
The clip created with TMPEG, will exhibit FAR FAR less blocks that the MCE encode.
Drag the mpeg files to bitrate viewer, and you'll see that the clip made with MCE doesn't have high enough bitrate on peaks, but the one created with TMPEG wil

What version was this tested on.

kwag · #10 12-04-2003, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ak47

What version was this tested on.

1.3x.
And there's no difference between that and 1.4x

-kwag

kwag · #11 12-04-2003, 11:08 AM

@All,

Here, this will probably clear all doubts about which encoder is best for low bitrates

TMPEG v.2.51: MIN 300, MAX 2,500 CQ 50. 720x480 MPEG-2 3:2 pulldown.
http://www.kvcd.net/tmpeg-lowbitrate.mpg

MCE v1.4.1: MIN 300, MAX 2,500, AVG 900. 720x480 MPEG-2 3:2 pulldown.
http://www.kvcd.net/mce-lowbitrate.mpg
And with all these errors on the log:

Code:

 Video encoder initialized
P:local_skipped = 2, base_min=177, enc_comp=30, T= 16948
P:local_skipped = 2, base_min=139, enc_comp=53, T= 44734
P:local_skipped = 1, base_min=128, enc_comp=48, T= 49576
P:local_skipped = 1, base_min=132, enc_comp=64, T= 41566
P:local_skipped = 2, base_min=156, enc_comp=63, T= 40288
P:local_skipped = 2, base_min=151, enc_comp=70, T= 27160
P:local_skipped = 2, base_min=178, enc_comp=71, T= 29148
P:local_skipped = 2, base_min=177, enc_comp=77, T= 31947
P:local_skipped = 2, base_min=178, enc_comp=59, T= 24525
P:local_skipped = 2, base_min=160, enc_comp=65, T= 39051
P:local_skipped = 2, base_min=139, enc_comp=50, T= 19421
P:local_skipped = 2, base_min=175, enc_comp=69, T= 30373
P:local_skipped = 2, base_min=176, enc_comp=56, T= 24698
P:local_skipped = 2, base_min=176, enc_comp=55, T= 24321
P:local_skipped = 2, base_min=174, enc_comp=71, T= 31889
P:local_skipped = 2, base_min=178, enc_comp=50, T= 22488
P:local_skipped = 2, base_min=150, enc_comp=38, T= 31012
P:local_skipped = 1, base_min=126, enc_comp=33, T= 14469
P:local_skipped = 1, base_min=126, enc_comp=33, T= 15196
Converting terminated by user.

As I always say: "A picture (in this case, a movie) is worth a thousand words"

-kwag

digitall.doc · #12 12-04-2003, 11:46 AM

Sorry Kwag (answering you in two forums, maybe too much digitall.doc for just one day

), this isn't a KVD question, but:

Quote:

Drag the mpeg files to bitrate viewer, and you'll see that the clip made with MCE doesn't have high enough bitrate on peaks, but the one created with TMPEG will

this happens at low bitrates, but what about an average of 1800 and high of 3000?. Still Rubik's Cube? (I loved that game, now I play KVCD

)
And you talk about setting CQ, but still don´t know where.

ak47 · #13 12-04-2003, 04:56 PM

Kwag can you tell me what VBR mode you used,like fast,Mode 1,mode 128. Because I found out that in verion 1.4.1 only worked with fast mode properly. Also try out the new feature auto gop and see what you think.

kwag · #14 12-04-2003, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ak47

Kwag can you tell me what VBR mode you used,like fast,Mode 1,mode 128. Because I found out that in verion 1.4.1 only worked with fast mode properly. Also try out the new feature auto gop and see what you think.

Hi ak47,

I used Mode-1. The recommended mode. The other modes are worse

-kwag

ak47 · #15 12-04-2003, 07:45 PM

Wow I guess CQ mode finaly has an advantage. I tried all three modes on a 2 hour move and not one frame skip.

incredible · #16 12-05-2003, 03:49 AM

Yes it has an advatage according to quality (at those low bitrates) but the range of CQ integer values is to short so its very difficult to do a precise (manual) prediction.

Markymoo · #17 12-07-2003, 09:31 PM

Kwag have you tried a CQ of 1 2 or 3 with a simple avs script i think you change your mind.

kwag · #18 12-07-2003, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markymoo

Kwag have you tried a CQ of 1 2 or 3 with a simple avs script i think you change your mind.

As incredible posted, you can't do proper file prediction with MCE, because of the small integer range.

-kwag

ak47 · #19 12-07-2003, 09:51 PM

Quote:

As incredible posted, you can't do proper file prediction with MCE, because of the small integer range

But you can make a video with MCE with a CQ of 3 then use Tmpegenc to predict and encode the same file size. But that kinda of defeats the purpose of encoding since you can only make a 600mb or a 820mb file with MCE, compared to a 800mb right on file with Tmpegenc. MCE will produce the better Mpeg-2 file with CQ, but the fact is you will never get the size you want to make it causing worse quilty. Thats why I moved on to FFmpeg.

kwag · #20 12-07-2003, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ak47

But you can make a video with MCE with a CQ of 3 then use Tmpegenc to predict and encode the same file size. .

You never do that

That's double encoding. Another layer of macro blocks over a previous generation. Results are unacceptable

-kwag