KDVD: Simplier Way than Vmesquita CCE Guide ?

[The Untouchable]

Is there a simplier way to do file prediction for CCE in making say a 1300 mb K-DVD than the CCE guide by Vmesquita ?
(not that there's anything wrong with it)
just alil too complicated for a newbie to cce like me.

I want my CCE target MPV file to be 1300 mb,
So that I can Mux a 110 mb 128kbps mp2 file with it (as the KDVD audio)

Someone Please help a brothaman out, Cuz I'm gettin sick of trail & error
(especially when it takes 4-5 hours for CCE to complete the task jus to see if its the size I want or not)

[Dialhot]

I really don't see what is complicated in the guide : take the number or frame, divde by the number of minutes, then by the length of the GOP. Divide the target size (here 1300 MB - the size of your audio) by the number obtained. That's give you the size your sample must be.

Encode a sample with Q=40, see it's size. Is it too big ? Yes -> Raise the Q to 50 and redo a sample.
Is it too low ? Yes -> Lower the Q to 30 and redo a sample...

With 3 or 4 sample you should have the correct Q.

That is called manual prediction and it is really simple.

[kwag]

Or you can always try CQMatic with TMPEG
In the end, you'll get a KDVD which should look pretty good too
Unless you just want to use CCE, for some personal reason

-kwag

[Dialhot]

I think the only reason is the time. And that's true that TMPGENC is a pain in the ass when talking about KDVD resolution

[incredible]

@ Untouchable

Three ways of prediction with CCE:

1. VMesquitas way in his guide

2. Slicer() ping pong prediction (as to me it gives the most accurate result but its a manual .avs job which gets very easy once you are in it.

3. Jonny's Qcce prediction tool.
(Where I don't know whats your real problem when using it, just add your personal safety margin factor as said in your last Qcce Thread.

[The Untouchable]

The reason why I don't like Vmesquitos way is cuz there too much math & programs & other stuff involved.
I actually lowered the QC factor (Johnnys method) to 12 & Min Q TO 5 & MaxQ to 40
& set target to 1300mb (for mpv file) & the bloody thing came out even larger than b4
Yes I hate Tmpg cuz it takes too long plus CCE video is clearer !!

How would 1 go about the Slicer() ping pong prediction method ?

[clickit]

just hit this link

http://www.kvcd.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7626

and follow incredible's 1st post

[incredible]

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Untouchable

...
& set target to 1300mb (for mpv file) & the bloody thing came out even larger than b4
Yes I hate Tmpg cuz it takes too long plus CCE video is clearer !!

1. Why don't you just determine in Qcce as endzise 1200MB if everytime your archieved results end up 100MBs over? That would be your personal safety margin. Don't manipulate the archived CQ but the wanted filesize in the calculation.

2. Where appears CCE that Clearer? At that AVG Bitrtaes like when putting 3 Videos on one DVD-R they come out almost the same.

[vmesquita]

You can try my calculator to make calculations easier:

http://www.kvcd.net/forum/viewtopic....ght=calculator

[The Untouchable]

Compare a 1400 mb file from Tmpgenc with a 1400 mb file from CCE

I garantee the CCE 1 will be sharper in color, clearer & less blocks

[The Untouchable]

IT'S REALLY WEIRD, If I lower the targetsize I get a bigger file lol
WTF, I'm goin for the calculator 1st vmesquta, if that don't work I'll go for ping pong

[incredible]

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Untouchable

Compare a 1400 mb file from Tmpgenc with a 1400 mb file from CCE

I garantee the CCE 1 will be sharper in color, clearer & less blocks

Sorry, don't blame me, but .... I did compare on many encodings and I see the Quality aspect resumee in an average.

As you just switched to CCE so you can't guarantee that in general

Every encoder gots its pro and cons, so it dpends (as I always say) on the movie and its compressionability etc. etc. ect.
CCE behaves different in its Bitrate Allocation and that you also can adjust in the Quantisation Characteristics. (more bitrate to higher complex areas OR more bitrate to average/non complex parts. And exactly that Bitrate allocation gets even better IF the avg Bitrate gets higher and I'm define "high" seen as a bitrate viewn by the producers of CCE, not our "high" bitrates ast KDVD

AND CCE does work internally from YUY2 to YV12 mpeg!
TmpgEnc does work internally from RGB24 to YV12 mpeg!

Means: If you get in CCE with the MA i.e. which does frameserve a YV12 stream the pre-internal colorconversations will be result a little bit different.
And thats also why someone should know that when generating complex avs scripts incl. some colorspace conversions.
(and thats maybe the argument Why you did archive in some cases better coloroutput cause seen in a whole the whole process didn't need to do that much colorconversations in total.

But anyhow, I use CCE on 3 movies to 1 DVD-R too, but I just wanted to pooint that above out

[The Untouchable]

lol ok ok so I'm too much of a newbie ta garantee anything but I've bin using Tmpgenc for years now (for vcd, DVD's ta send ta uk,kvcd,)
& After using CCE for 2 days I can say that it beats tmpgenc in the output quality of mpeg2

Anyhow for the ping pond method, How do I tell CCE what I want my final filesize to be (so it knows what to test for)
I put the avsi file i the avisynth plugins folder & added slicer line to my script

Mpeg2Source("E:\delete\1.d2v")

TomsMoComp(1, 15, 1)
undot()
asharp(1, 4)
GripCrop(704, 480, source_anamorphic=false)
GripSize(resizer="BicubicResize")
STMedianFilter(3, 3, 1, 1 )
MergeChroma(blur(1.5))
MergeLuma(blur(0.1))

ScriptClip(" nf = YDifferenceToNext()" +chr(13)+ "unfilter( -(fmin(round(nf)*2, 100)), -(fmin(round(nf)*2, 100)) ).TemporalSoften( fmin( round(2/nf), 6), round(1/nf) , round(3/nf) , 1, 1) ")

VobSub("D:\DVD_VIDEO\VIDEO_TS\VTS_10_0")
GripBorders()
LetterBox(16, 16, 16, 16)

function fmin( int f1, int f2) {
return ( f1<f2 ) ? f1 : f2
}

#
Slicer(2,18,00,2,0)
####

Thats what My script looks like lol
I AM LOST , Do I load this into CCE or Johnnys QCCE ?
& How do I tell the programs what I want as a final target size say
1310 mb with audio (without mux)

Is this script with slicer even right ?
LOST LOST LOST LOST !!

[incredible]

1. I gave you above the explanation "edited" to my last post according to better color

2. Please read carefully that thread about ping-pong slicing!
There its mentioned how do you calculate the needed sample size.
Audioslave there gave also a nice explanation of his way

So as you use slicer(2,x,x,x,x) that would mean 2% of the movie will be predicted! As therefore you should take your final streamsize, subtract the audiosize and 2% from this result has to be matched.

[The Untouchable]

Forget it !! This is all alil too hard for me,
Im gonna try 1 last thing (This may be my problem)
For Johnny's "QCCE" my minimum bitrate is 64 & max bitrate is 3000.
Maybe I should lower the max bitrate to say ummm 2250 Kbps ?
waiting for a reply & then I'ma try lol

[incredible]

at what resolution you do encode?

704x480 or 352x480?

[The Untouchable]

704 x 480

[The Untouchable]

I encode at 704 x 480

[incredible]

2250 is very very low for 704x480!
You should stay minimum at 3000kbit at max settings

To me it seems you do something wrong in your calculation as an audio track as AC3 or mp2 in case of a 120min movie does take almost 100MB, maybe a bit over.
So I do think you did not subtract well in the final size calculation the audio size???? Just a thought, .... to me that happened i.e. 2 Days ago at 3am in the night

[The Untouchable]

Thats the thing I dont know How to do the math, from kindergarden to after highschool I did not pass 1 math exam !!
I SUCK AT MATH !!
No matter what I do I cant Understand the CCE calculation guides
I LOVE johnnys "QCCE" BUT its alil off
With minimum bitrate set to 64 kbps & max bitrate set to 3000 &
a target size set for 1380 mb gets me a 1.47 gb MPV file & for a
target size set for 1200 mb I get a target size of 1.67 gb WTF ?
QUALITY CHARESTERISTIC is set to 14